AMD HD7*** series info

[tincart]

My plans aswell! If AMD doesnt screw up their upper midrange pricing this time, like they did with the fail on pricing 6850/70 versus the overclocked 460`s.

I wonder if they realised their huge fail in losing that many sales...

Those cards were also late to compete. I had owned my 460 for quite awhile before the 6870 came out. There were some very nice Canadian rebate deals that made the 6870 attractive after it came out, but I already had a similarly performing card. If the 6870, or something with 6870 performance at the same price level had come out around the same time as the 460, then my decision may have been different.

They probably lost quite a few sales because people had already taken the plunge on a 460 by the time the 6870/50 were released.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

My plans aswell! If AMD doesnt screw up their upper midrange pricing this time, like they did with the fail on pricing 6850/70 versus the overclocked 460`s.

I wonder if they realised their huge fail in losing that many sales...

I wonder if you realized that overclocked GTX 460 cards meant little, if anything, at all. The HD 6850 and GTX 460 have about the same over-clocking headroom and the 6850 was almost always significantly cheaper. You could get a 6850 for $170 most of the time while the GTX 460 was $190-200 until recently. The 6800 series was a huge win for AMD. AMD hasn't "screwed up" their mainstream parts ever since the 4000 series came out.

One recent card from NVIDIA I would say had been exceptional was the GTX 460 768MB. It was simply unbeatable at $150, but alas, NVIDIA wants the much inferior GTX 550 Ti to replace it.

The GTX 460 was a win for NVIDIA because of how early it came to the market in comparison to the 6850.

 

[Madcatatlas]

I wonder if you realized that overclocked GTX 460 cards meant little, if anything, at all. The HD 6850 and GTX 460 have about the same over-clocking headroom and the 6850 was almost always significantly cheaper. You could get a 6850 for $170 most of the time while the GTX 460 was $190-200 until recently. The 6800 series was a huge win for AMD. AMD hasn't "screwed up" their mainstream parts ever since the 4000 series came out.

One recent card from NVIDIA I would say had been exceptional was the GTX 460 768MB. It was simply unbeatable at $150, but alas, NVIDIA wants the much inferior GTX 550 Ti to replace it.

The GTX 460 was a win for NVIDIA because of how early it came to the market in comparison to the 6850.

The 460 was win for Nvidia because the 68xx series was introduced at a too high price while only being competitive/slightly better than the 460.

I mean look at us, tincart has one, i have one. And ill be the first to say that i would rather not buy Nvidia hardware, but im not blind with green or red shades, i buy performance/price and the 460 was still a better buy a month after the 6850/70 got released, much of it because of the overclocked versions. Ofcourse the 6850/70 just got better with each driver release, but still.


The point is, i would very much like a card at sub 200$ with performance to match the current 6950 atleast. If they add 2gb ram on that, all the better.

 

[grimpr]

Whoever takes the 150-200$ segment writes GPU history, and the GTX 460 continued the tradition of the 6600GT for Nvidia.

 

[3DVagabond]

The 460 was win for Nvidia because the 68xx series was introduced at a too high price while only being competitive/slightly better than the 460.

I mean look at us, tincart has one, i have one. And ill be the first to say that i would rather not buy Nvidia hardware, but im not blind with green or red shades, i buy performance/price and the 460 was still a better buy a month after the 6850/70 got released, much of it because of the overclocked versions. Ofcourse the 6850/70 just got better with each driver release, but still.


The point is, i would very much like a card at sub 200$ with performance to match the current 6950 atleast. If they add 2gb ram on that, all the better.

With the release of the 6870/50 nVidia cut the retail price of the 460 by $20 and released the 850MHz FTW, effectively killing the 470, just to be competitive with them. I'd say the 6800 was a bit better at launch than you are remembering.

 

[Madcatatlas]

With the release of the 6870/50 nVidia cut the retail price of the 460 by $20 and released the 850MHz FTW, effectively killing the 470, just to be competitive with them. I'd say the 6800 was a bit better at launch than you are remembering.

That i will agree with you on. The overclocked 460s at 850 mhz core or more really did replace the 470s for many. Price/performance rules and Nvidia got this one just like AMD got it with their 4850/70.

Although the 6800s were good even at launch, they just didnt win the price/performance fight, and thats the only reason why im sporting the 460 and not the 6870.

In any case... my next card is very likely a high end AMD card, and if i have the right of that, they will be available late 2011 or ealry 2012.

 

[3DVagabond]

In any case... my next card is very likely a high end AMD card, and if i have the right of that, they will be available late 2011 or ealry 2012.

I was thinking the 7970, if I can safely call it that, Wouldn't be out until next year myself when 28nm HP became available. Some rumors (Charlie) have it that there are samples in the field now with near 6990 performance on HPL. Maybe 28nm HPL is all AMD needs? FWIU 28nm HPL can run up to ~1GHz. If GCN still runs 1/1 GPU to shader clocks (or whatever they will call them on GCN) then it's possible 28nm HPL is fast enough. If so, I'll be curious to see what AMD does when 28nm HP comes out. Depending, of course on what clocks it can actually run and how much power it uses.

Anyway, I suppose we should wait to see what they release this year first on 28nm HPL, before we start to speculate on next year and 28nm HP.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

The 460 was win for Nvidia because the 68xx series was introduced at a too high price while only being competitive/slightly better than the 460.

I mean look at us, tincart has one, i have one. And ill be the first to say that i would rather not buy Nvidia hardware, but im not blind with green or red shades, i buy performance/price and the 460 was still a better buy a month after the 6850/70 got released, much of it because of the overclocked versions. Ofcourse the 6850/70 just got better with each driver release, but still.


The point is, i would very much like a card at sub 200$ with performance to match the current 6950 atleast. If they add 2gb ram on that, all the better.

You're not serious, right? If you are, I'm sorry to say, but you're misinformed. The Radeon HD 6850 competed directly with the GTX 460 and costed less. NVIDIA left the price of the GTX 460 1GB at $200 until they released the GTX 560. AMD introduced the HD 6850 at $180, $20 cheaper. It also had around the same over-clocking headroom and used considerably less power. There was the GTX 460 768MB, whose price was reduced to $160 and later $150, but it was also slower than both. In terms of price/performance the Radeon HD 6850 was a clear winner until NVIDIA decided a few months ago to lower the price to $160 to compete. As for factory overclocked cards, they haven't made sense for the most part. I was able to pick up an EVGA GTX 460 1GB SSC+ for $160, and at that point it's obviously good bang-for-buck given it comes clocked to 850MHz on the Core.

 

[happy medium]

You're not serious, right? If you are, I'm sorry to say, but you're misinformed. The Radeon HD 6850 competed directly with the GTX 460 and costed less. NVIDIA left the price of the GTX 460 1GB at $200 until they released the GTX 560. AMD introduced the HD 6850 at $180, $20 cheaper. It also had around the same over-clocking headroom and used considerably less power. There was the GTX 460 768MB, whose price was reduced to $160 and later $150, but it was also slower than both. In terms of price/performance the Radeon HD 6850 was a clear winner until NVIDIA decided a few months ago to lower the price to $160 to compete. As for factory overclocked cards, they haven't made sense for the most part. I was able to pick up an EVGA GTX 460 1GB SSC+ for $160, and at that point it's obviously good bang-for-buck given it comes clocked to 850MHz on the Core.

Your memory differs from mine also. :hmm:

I think the gtx4601gb price was cut at the release of the 6850 after selling a hellava lot of cards, to 199$ and the gtx460 1gb @ 850 was to compete with the 6870 at $240.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...d-6850-vs-gtx-460-1gb-overclocking-study.html

Most of the cards were pre=overclocked at launch for the gtx460 from 675 core. Evga even gave the free performance upgrade to 720 core on there stock models.
The main selling point with the 460 was its overclocking ablility, where it could perform on par with a overclocked 6870 for 199$.

"The gtx460 , the new 200$ KING"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/18

Not saying the 68xx series was bad , but I think THEE card to have was a gtx460 and overclock the hell out of it.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

That i will agree with you on. The overclocked 460s at 850 mhz core or more really did replace the 470s for many. Price/performance rules and Nvidia got this one just like AMD got it with their 4850/70.

Although the 6800s were good even at launch, they just didnt win the price/performance fight, and thats the only reason why im sporting the 460 and not the 6870.

In any case... my next card is very likely a high end AMD card, and if i have the right of that, they will be available late 2011 or ealry 2012.

I think you haven't really been paying attention to this topic. Otherwise, you wouldn't be saying this. The GTX 460 1GB was $200 until some months ago while the Radeon HD 6850 was $180, delivered the same performance, and consumed less power. When NVIDIA released the GTX 560 the 460 was lowered to $160, but the 6850 was already at that price because AMD cut prices in anticipation. As for the Radeon HD 6870, there's no contest. The 6870 is somewhat faster than the GTX 560 and costs $180. It's around the same performance as my current card both stock, but the 6870 also has more OCing headroom left in it. The reason why I picked up a factory OCed GTX 460 was that it did not command a price premium over stock versions, it was $20 cheaper than the 6870, but primarily because I also fold.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Your memory differs from mine also. :hmm:

How so?

When the GTX 460 was released it was obviously a better buy than the Radeon HD 5830, but not so much when the Radeon HD 6850 was released. It'd be a good statement to say the GTX 460 won against the HD 5830, but not that it won against the 6850. (I'm talking in terms of price/performance.)

 

[dakU7]

I'll just leave this here;

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6850/30.html

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I'll just leave this here;

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6850/30.html

Yep. Too bad the 768MB version is gone, though. The GTX 550 Ti is definitely not a worthy replacement.

 

[happy medium]

How so?

When the GTX 460 was released it was obviously a better buy than the Radeon HD 5830, but not so much when the Radeon HD 6850 was released. It'd be a good statement to say the GTX 460 won against the HD 5830, but not that it won against the 6850. (I'm talking in terms of price/performance.)

I think we are close to agreeing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
but in price and actual/capable performance the gtx460 was the better buy, thats why I bought one.
But we both can have different opinions, thats just the way it is.:thumbsup:

 

[happy medium]

I'll just leave this here;

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6850/30.html

Wow i didnt know the gtx460 768 was that good.
I was thinking about grabbing one but the 768mb of memory bothered me.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I think we are close to agreeing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
but in price and actual/capable performance the gtx460 was the better buy, thats why I bought one.
But we both can have different opinions, thats just the way it is.:thumbsup:

I don't know what you mean? Are you talking about over-clocking headroom? If that's it, they're both around the same. With some over-volting you can get 900MHz on the Core out of the GTX 460 and 1GHz out of the HD 6850. They're both over-clocking beasts.

As of now, they're equal on price/performance at $160. For a lot of months the Radeon HD 6850 was at $180 vs the GTX 460 at $200, though. Given that, overall the 6850 won in price/performance against the GTX 460. The GTX 460 handed a beating to the Radeon HD 5830 before it, though.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Wow i didnt know the gtx460 768 was that good.
I was thinking about grabbing one but the 768mb of memory bothered me.

Unfortunately it's been EOL and is therefore OoS in many places. As for the VRAM, it's good for up to 1920x1080 with 4xAA/16xAF in most games, but there's particular games which may have problems. At 1920x1200 with the same levels of AA and filtering the card simply runs out of memory in some games.

When all is said and done, it was overall a perfect card for 1680x1050 in bang-for-buck.

 

[happy medium]

at $160

The gtx 460 is at $119AR, and $124AR for the HAWK model on newegg.
ANd no I disagree the gtx460 overclocked vs the 6850 overclocked the gtx460 wins.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...d-6850-vs-gtx-460-1gb-overclocking-study.html

Baby Fermi scales better with overclocking vs 68xx seires.

Not so good at 2500x1600 but I would not buy these cards for that res . anyway.

 

[happy medium]

I think we should stop this conversation, the fanboys will come and rape us both + its off topic.

Good day buddy.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

The gtx 460 is at $119AR, and $124AR for the HAWK model on newegg.
ANd no I disagree the gtx460 overclocked vs the 6850 overclocked the gtx460 wins.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...d-6850-vs-gtx-460-1gb-overclocking-study.html

Baby Fermi scales better with overclocking vs 68xx seires.

Bad chart, to be honest. You clearly saw from the article that the GTX 460 over-clocks with some over-volting to 900MHz Core, while the HD 6850 reaches 1GHz. Coincidentally, that's exactly when they perform equally. They basically gave a glaring, unfair advantage to the GTX 460 in the charts by lowering the difference from 100MHz to 50MHz. Look at all the charts and you'll see they're about equal at 900MHz/1GHz, which is as high as they'll go. That's the case for them both at stock and max OCs. The HD 6850 consumes less power, too, which is always good.

As far as using MIRs as a main argument for price, I think they're invalid. You still have to pay full price upfront, and some people don't want to deal with them. They're a bonus. Using upfront price as your primary argument is more honest. In any case, you can get the HD 6850 for $130 with MIR.

 

[3DVagabond]

I think we should stop this conversation, the fanboys will come and rape us both + its off topic.

Good day buddy.

Fanboys? LOL Mr. Kettle meet Mr Pot.

Anyway, good idea back OT, where do we think the 7000 series midrange card will perform? 6850x2 maybe?

 

[Neutralman]

Fanboys? LOL Mr. Kettle meet Mr Pot.

Anyway, good idea back OT, where do we think the 7000 series midrange card will perform? 6850x2 maybe?

I'm also wondering how well it will perform and its power consumption. It's the only thing holding me back from building a new computer at the moment. I guess I'll also get to see how bulldozer performs relative to sandy bridge.

 

[WMD]

Bad chart, to be honest. You clearly saw from the article that the GTX 460 over-clocks with some over-volting to 900MHz Core, while the HD 6850 reaches 1GHz. Coincidentally, that's exactly when they perform equally. They basically gave a glaring, unfair advantage to the GTX 460 in the charts by lowering the difference from 100MHz to 50MHz. Look at all the charts and you'll see they're about equal at 900MHz/1GHz, which is as high as they'll go. That's the case for them both at stock and max OCs. The HD 6850 consumes less power, too, which is always good.

As far as using MIRs as a main argument for price, I think they're invalid. You still have to pay full price upfront, and some people don't want to deal with them. They're a bonus. Using upfront price as your primary argument is more honest. In any case, you can get the HD 6850 for $130 with MIR.

Not all gtx460 overclocks to 900mhz. My MSI Hawk 460 only does 835mhz even with overvolt and max fan. Same with 6850/ 6870 not all can hit 1000mhz even with voltage.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Not all gtx460 overclocks to 900mhz. My MSI Hawk 460 only does 835mhz even with overvolt and max fan. Same with 6850/ 6870 not all can hit 1000mhz even with voltage.

Most of them definitely do. You probably have an extremely bad sample. 850MHz with them is on most occasions a given with a slight bump in voltage.

 

[3DVagabond]

Not all gtx460 overclocks to 900mhz. My MSI Hawk 460 only does 835mhz even with overvolt and max fan. Same with 6850/ 6870 not all can hit 1000mhz even with voltage.

This is why saying one card is faster than another when O/C'd is a sucker play. Look at them perf/$ @ stock clocks and take any O/C you get as a bonus.

Besides, there's typically reasons why certain cards are released way below their highest clocks. Sometimes it's to leave a larger performance gap between it and the next model up in the line. Sometimes it's because the GPU is a power hog and needs to be clocked down to keep power usage under control. When the latter is the case you're often better off to just spend the extra $20-$40 dollars and just go with the next model up in the line. This is assuming your PSU can handle the additional power requirements. If it can't, it won't handle an O/C either.

This is to take nothing away from the 460 Hawk. IMO it's the best 460 on the market (that and the Talon Attack) and I'd take it over something like the EVGA 460 FTW any day of the week.