AMD --> Intel upgrade paths

[spwango]

So, I find myself in a position where I need to upgrade my PC due to a strange problem that appears to be either motherboard or proc related...reguardless, I'm thinking an upgrade would be fun anyway, but I need some suggestions. So currently:

Antec TruePower 380W PSU
Epox 8K3A MOBO
Athlon XP 1800+
WD 80GB JB
Lite-On DVD ROM, Lite-ON CD Burner
MSI GF4 Ti4400
512MB of Samsung CL2 PC2700
512MB of Corsair CL2 PC2700

So, if I upgrade, I want to go intel. I'm looking around 2.4Ghz...seems to be the best bang for the buck at the moment...so, what I don't understand is what the deal with the memory is. I assume that my lowly 2700 (one stick of which is brand new-thought my previous problem was a memory one...was wrong) will force me to not be able to run an 800Mhz FSB proc, correct? What about dual channel? Will my current ram suffice for that? I'm currently leaning towards replacing the Proc and Mobo only, with the Asus P4P800 Deluxe as the likely mobo candidate. Comments? Thanks!

 

[Ionizer86]

It won't work unless you have some uber 2700 ram that'll work at that higher speed. Try upping your bus to that speed and lowering some timings...you may want to pull out your PCI stuff and unused drives because their bus speed will get thrown off on a via chipset (IIRC, 8k3a is KT333).

BTW what's the highest CPU your 8k3a takes? You may be able to do a comparable upgrade to that 2.4G kinda speed (I'm thinking of the 2600+, but you may be able to take others too). If your ram doesn't work at 3200, going up on an AMD processor will save a lotta $ (you'll be able to keep the board and ram).

 

[spwango]

Well, the current mobo is trash. The setup I have now is fine for what I use it for--that's the main reason for the upgrade. If I have to buy proc AND mobo, I want to go Intel. Is there anyway I can do that with my 2700? Even if I'm running the P4 at less than an 800 MHz FSB? Thanks.

 

[Ionizer86]

P4B processor runs at 533 (166 quad pumped). That could work for you. That aside, you'd have to test your mem if you want it at 3200. My 2100 can do 2700 at CL2.5 on my 8rda+.

BTW, how's the mobo trash? EPoX has made good mobos since the 8KHA+ (KT266A) IMHO.

 

[spwango]

It's a stability problem...I thought it was memory at first...turns out not to be. Mobo and Proc are the only things left to try to replace.

A thread on it:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=1123925&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

 

[JBT]

I bet that ur CAS 2 ram would be able to handle the 200fsb @ CAS 2.5and some other relaxed timigns no gaurentee though. I have some PC2700 from crucial that runs is easily. Worst that could happen would be either upgrading the ram or the highest u can go atleast 185 I would bet. GL though

 

[randumb]

Originally posted by: Ionizer86
P4B processor runs at 533 (166 quad pumped). That could work for you. That aside, you'd have to test your mem if you want it at 3200. My 2100 can do 2700 at CL2.5 on my 8rda+.

BTW, how's the mobo trash? EPoX has made good mobos since the 8KHA+ (KT266A) IMHO.

Actually its 133 quad pumped.

 

[Goose77]

I read your problem and i might have an idea of what it could be.

With a rebooting problem its not the memory or the processor. If memory goes bad you get crash and the famous BSOD! If a processor goes bad it usually just hard freezes/crashes. Did you test to see if you have any hardware conflicts?? or see if your video card or sound card could be causeing the problem?? you have to try to rule out evey thing, buying a new system might not always fix the problem. I got a good example of this if you want to hear about it

I know for a fact that video cards, motherboard (bios setting wrong, short somewhere, or MB just went bad.), and sound cards have caused me the most problems with reboots in the passed, oh yeah, and hardware conflicts. The last one occurs the most. You got to trouble shoot a bit better then just buying a new comp.

if your really set on getting a new comp, then go ahead, but just be sure that the problem isnt any of the other hardware, or you will end up with the same prob with your new system.

as for the memory, it will work find, u will either have to overclock ur memory, or run ur proc and fsb slower untill u can upgrade to new memory. You might run in to problems trying to use different types of ram for the dual channel... intel board are a bit picky on memory, but what board isnt!!!

 

[Macro2]

RE:"I need to upgrade my PC due to a strange problem that appears to be either motherboard or proc related..."

Well, if you're sure...change the motherboard. Perhaps your memory is failing at high temp?

Suppose you buy an Intel chip and mobo and still have the problem?

 

[piasabird]

If you buy a new motherboard look for one with the Intel 865 series Chipset. The Asus P4P800 looks like a nice deal. I would go for a Intel 2.4C Gig 800 Mhz processor. If you buy 2 sticks of RAM from different vendors it is a crap shoot to get them to work together at the best settings. There is something to be said for using a matched pair of memory DIMMs. Make sure the memory is in fact compatible with the motherboard when you buy it. Sometimes a different or specific version of the BIOS will increase stability.

 

[spwango]

Originally posted by: Goose77
I read your problem and i might have an idea of what it could be.

With a rebooting problem its not the memory or the processor. If memory goes bad you get crash and the famous BSOD! If a processor goes bad it usually just hard freezes/crashes. Did you test to see if you have any hardware conflicts??

The sound card has been in and out (swapped between SBLive and the onboard sound with the 8K3A)--that said, I have a hard time believing a hardware conflict such as that could be the culprit, for a couple of reasons. The reboot issue just popped up a couple of months ago...the machine has run in that configuration forever (at least a year) and was solid as a rock until a few months ago. And secondly, it goes away when the machine isn't running 512MB ram...It runs fairly solid at 1024, and fairly solid at 256 (although I've started to notice some XP IO problems lately, and crappy performance)...the thing really feels like it is in a death spiral at this point.

Again, if I have to replace the mobo, I'm redoing the box--my proc is far enough behind the curb that I think it makes sense, at this point, especially when you can do it for < $400.

 

[spwango]

Originally posted by: piasabird
If you buy a new motherboard look for one with the Intel 865 series Chipset. The Asus P4P800 looks like a nice deal. I would go for a Intel 2.4C Gig 800 Mhz processor.

Is it safe to assume you can run these dual channel boards single channel?

 

[beatle]

Originally posted by: spwango

Originally posted by: piasabird
If you buy a new motherboard look for one with the Intel 865 series Chipset. The Asus P4P800 looks like a nice deal. I would go for a Intel 2.4C Gig 800 Mhz processor.

Is it safe to assume you can run these dual channel boards single channel?

Yes.

Also in regards to the motherboard and a 2.4C. You can always decide to run the memory async of the FSB. Many people do this when cranking the bus speed to 250 with only PC3200. Run a 5:4 divider with the FSB @ 207 or so to get the most out of your PC2700.

I'd recommend an IS7 + 2.4C for ~$270 or so. You can always get an IC7 and a faster P4 if you like. If you're not willing to count AMD out, the NF7-S and 2500+ is also a great combo for less than $200.

 

[spwango]

Is there any reason not to upgrade to Intel at this point?

 

[Alkali]

nope

 

[Budman]

You can use you pc2700 ram,in fact that's what I use with my 2.4@3ghz with a fsb of 250mhz.

You can run your fsb to 250 & have the ram running at 166mhz with 3:2 devider.

 

[txxxx]

A friend of mine has the same PSU and had odd issues with his MSI nForce2 mainboard. Bad stability.

 

[IaPuP]

Is there any reason not to upgrade to Intel at this point?

Athlon 64?

hmmm

Maybe not QUITE there yet, but I have high hopes come Spring...

Eric

 

[spwango]

Originally posted by: Budman
You can run your fsb to 250 & have the ram running at 166mhz with 3:2 devider.

OK, I'm a bit behind the terminology these days--what is a 3:2 divider and where's a good place to go learn about it?

Thanks much for the help!

 

[spwango]

Originally posted by: txxxx
A friend of mine has the same PSU and had odd issues with his MSI nForce2 mainboard. Bad stability.

Well, I did spend some time thinking about the possibility of the PSU starting to die, but I keep coming back to the fact that this reboot problem only happens when there is 512MB of RAM in the machine--I can't see why they wouldn't happen with 256 or 1G too--anyone ideas?

 

[mechBgon]

What's your memory voltage set to there, spwango? How about the remainder of the timings if you happen to recall, too.

 

[Goose77]

Originally posted by: spwango

Originally posted by: txxxx
A friend of mine has the same PSU and had odd issues with his MSI nForce2 mainboard. Bad stability.

Well, I did spend some time thinking about the possibility of the PSU starting to die, but I keep coming back to the fact that this reboot problem only happens when there is 512MB of RAM in the machine--I can't see why they wouldn't happen with 256 or 1G too--anyone ideas?

how many sticks are in when u have:

256
512
1gig ????

also are they, and which ones, are

double sided
single sided
(meaning does the memory have chips on one side or both??)

depending on the power requirments for the memory, also single sided, double side, might also affect power consumption, could be a psu prob, forgot about that one!

also, your onboard sound and add in sound could conflict, wouldnt be the first time, plus hardware conflict could happened due to a change in the configuration (i.e. addition in memory). You would be surprised buy what caused some of the computer problems..... i have seen some crazy kaka!! anyway..

just try to rule out any possible problem, go through it all!


as for dividers, they are what control the speed of all the buses in your system. Its a ratio such as 1:1 or 1:2

my dividers are 4:2:1 (i think gonna have to check). This means my PCI runs at 1/4 my front side bus, my AGP runs 1/2 of my fsb, and my memory runs @ fsb speed or 1:1 1/1 or one whole . It show how and where your buses are divided by. Most Intel FSBs have an option to lock them, so no matter what speed your FSB is at, ur agp/pci/isa buses will stay at there rated speed. Also, alot more amd boards are starting to offer this. I think VIA is the only one yet to offer a lock for AMD sys.

happy shoppin!

 

[spwango]

Thanks again for the help and suggestions all...

So, as far as the memory goes--voltage is set at 2.5--BIOS monitor shows 2.67 upon boot up...I have some problems with my monitor not catching the boot cycle, so I stick to Epox's "Optimized defaults" because I have to set it several times per week. The memory itself I believe is both double sided...the stick of samsung is, not sure about the corsair as it has a heat spreader on it...as far as the errors:

1 Stick of 256 --> Stable
1 Stick of Samsung 512 --> Unstable
1 Stick of Corsair 512 --> Unstable
1 Stick of Samsung 512 and 1 Stick of Corsair 512 --> Stable

The addition of the memory was due to this problem--IE, it started well before this happened.

In terms of sound, I usually run the machine with the onboard sound disabled in the BIOS. I've tried the various permutations of having the onboard sound vs the SBLive and have found no differences--which just stumps me further...As for if I upgrage, the SBLive is coming out unless I buy a board with really bad onboard sound--I've had too many compatability issues with the creative card's lately to warrent any benefit from the card, which is now minimal anyway.

 

[Goose77]

This might not be the fix, but it just occured to me all of the sudden. Check your motherboard manual and see which memory slot is DIMM 1 / bank 0,1. It should be the slot either next to your cpu or farthest from the cpu. Make sure that you are putting your memory in dimm 1. if your putting it in dimm 3 similar problems like this will occur. Funnie thing is, it will work with 2 sticks, one in dimm 2 and one in dimm 3. dont know why, dont ask me. so, check and see what slot it is supposed to be in.

if you dont have the manual, just go to Epox's manual page and get it there.

goodluck