There s some healthy volume since the R5 HP Envy is the most sought laptop in Germany these days...
https://geizhals.de/?o=53
https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Raven+Ridge
As much as I'd like to see AMD have a massive hit, their Q4 guidance was clear that they won't be shipping these APU in volume in Q4.
It's not a showcase piece. It's one thing to send 1K worth of Hardware with your 1k CPU, as a halo product. It's another thing another thing to convince your partner whom you are still rebuilding a relationship with to send out $1,500 kits for so people can review a sub $200 CPU in less than perfect setting (since HP is using a 15w and not a 25w chassis).
There s some healthy volume since the R5 HP Envy is the most sought laptop in Germany these days...
https://geizhals.de/?o=53
https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Raven+Ridge
And Best Buy as well.
I don't see the problems you project. Anandtech, on Nov14 said they are getting it for review- so other reviewers must be getting them as well: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12038/ryzen-mobile-now-on-sale-hps-envy-x360- last sentence of the article.
And the chassi/cooling looks the same as used for Intel + MX150- but now cooling only APU: http://apusilicon.com/hp-envy-x360-internals/
There is also plenty enough data on youtube and reddit: for example, here is a test of constant 40W power use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A0YMY1bG30 . Users report good temperatures at constant high load (73C), and no throttling.
Also- this laptop is not only sold in US, but it appeared, in different configurations, for sale in Italy, Czech Republic, UK. Base configuration was sold out at Best Buy, but now is back on sale. That all does not look like bad shortage of units, or slow model not fit for reviews.
Ain't that the truth.Not that it will do them much good. Everyone knows they're just a showroom for Amazon.
.. The HP isn't the greatest test bed for displaying performance (though it might be great for performance per watt) because it is a 15w chasis. Where a 25w chasis could do extended (maybe infinite?) turbo runs and lengthy mXFR spikes. So if your goal was to show raw numbers or show how sweet it can run games. The Envy isn't going to be the best case scenario.
Look your not debating anything I stated. My point is these chips can be upped to 25w in an another chassis (I think the Acer is 25w). Numbers always win. If AMD was going to maximize viewership with the results they would use something like the Acer. I am debating it's spot in the market. I am not challenging the capabilities of the 2500u in a setup like the Envy. I am purely talking the focus of review samples and why if AMD was not sending them or pressuring HP to send them, why they wouldn't.Users report the HP model to run at constant full CPU load at 2.4GHz for indefinite time: "I ranPrime95 for over an hour, and the CPU keep coasting at around 2.4Ghz'.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...0_internals_thanks_to_userthe9thdude/dpy1vpn/
That is a clock (at Prime!) very similar to what is needed for Cinebench score of 550 with mXFR. So cooling must be fine.
But there is one point that I think it is important for AMD: how it positions these chips. So far- a lot of attention is directed at results in gaming. However, iGPU is bandwidth starved like all the previous APUs: it only performs at a level of ~7870K or 940m/MX130.
2500U: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bem_XyjbTDw&feature=youtu.be
7870K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYn4iwfv8cY
Better cooling, or more CUs in R7 2700U can not help with bandwidth (/will not help gaming results much). So I hope AMD understands their product: it shines as a very good CPU, and for gaming it needs to be sold as CPU- with discreet GPUs. Without dGPU- it is able to play heavy AAA games only at 720p low 30fps -which makes it look like a poor gaming product, and can ruin Ryzen Mobile's reputation. So I think it would be wise for AMD to sell 2500U and 2700U at increased prices, but offer bundles with discounted Polaris10, 11 and 12. And for ultra budget 720p gaming on iGPU- new APU SKUs with cut down CPU cores (2c/4t or 3c/6t) would work just as fast, and would not ruin 2500U/2700U image.
Look your not debating anything I stated. My point is these chips can be upped to 25w in an another chassis (I think the Acer is 25w). Numbers always win.
That's a fact comes through common sense. You can certainly disagree though.If this is a "fact" then I'm sure you will provide a citation.
Which scenario do you think more likely?Calling everything they don't like "FUD" is the mantra of the AMD fanboy.
If this is a "fact" then I'm sure you will provide a citation.
Of course it's marketing. But it's good marketing. Lisa Su is personable, and people for the most part seem to like her. And respect her for the things she's done getting AMD moving the right direction again. One tweet tells you three things. Where to look for a retailer who's carrying it, that the AMD APU's are in shipping products. And a company and brand that they are in.Which scenario do you think more likely?
1. Lisa Su really wanted a new laptop; she asked the OEMs to send her one with Ryzen, but they said "sorry, CEO of AMD, we have enough to send to Best Buy, but we can't spare one for you".
2. Lisa Su wanted to demonstrate that Ryzen laptops were available to purchase at retail stores like Best Buy, so she purchased one and then tweeted out the picture of her standing in front of the Best Buy in order to drive sales and awareness.
Could you provide some reasoning/evidence that this HP is limited by 15W chassi, and can not use constant 25W? So far- I have already provided 3 reasons why it is at 25W (constant 2.4GHz clock at Prime- equal to clock achievable at 25W as per AMD slides; constant 40W system power use in game; and HP cooler capable of cooling down 15W+25W (Intel+ MX150). I can provide one more indication: it comes with 65W power supply, while Acer is currently listed with 45W PSU. So what is there that convinces you that HP x360 is limited to 15W chassi/not capable of 25W?
Edit: Also- a better look at the internals: http://apusilicon.com/hp-envy-a-closer-look-at-the-internals/
But they price match Amazon now. I would certainly rather buy it immediately if in stock.Not that it will do them much good. Everyone knows they're just a showroom for Amazon.
But they price match Amazon now. I would certainly rather buy it immediately if in stock.
Since the CEO of AMD had to go to Best Buy to get one, I think it's safe to say AMD didn't get any to send out to reviewers.
Calling everything they don't like "FUD" is the mantra of the AMD fanboy.
If this is a "fact" then I'm sure you will provide a citation.
If there is any advantage for intel's chips (im not sure if its Coffee Lake, Sky Lake or Kaby Lake anymore) I'm missing it but AMD has the far superior GPU in Raven Ridge.
Really is there anything better on the market than Raven Ridge?
....
If there is any advantage for intel's chips (im not sure if its Coffee Lake, Sky Lake or Kaby Lake anymore) I'm missing it but AMD has the far superior GPU in Raven Ridge.
The slides AMD showed for these chips is likely very accurate or even sandbagging on performance and features as were the ones for Ryzen and EPYC. IMO Raven Ridge is the best chip they released this year and the others were no slouches.
1. I don't know if we actually know this. What is it based on? Qucksync?I'm not sure if that is sarcasm or not If not- then here is where I (an AMD fanboy) see Intel having advantage:
1) Better battery life at low loads like browsing and video playback. This guarantees them best designs in ultra-portable segment, and high margins with it.
2) Ability to boost much higher, helping responsiveness.
3) Ability to clock higher, granting better performance with good cooling.
4) Integrated Thunderbolt support.
5) History of successful work with OEMs and owning laptop market. Many ready successful designs.
Raven Ridge, on the other hand, is only better in:
1) Better iGPU: should have better drivers, no Intel's artifacts when rendering games, and Freesync. But able to play most games only at 30fps at 720p low- which in turn can only give competitive advantage in ultra-portable light gaming. However, it comes at a cost of shorter battery life in browsing/playing videos- a huge negative for the portable segment. In other segments- that iGPU is overtaken by modern dGPUs, so only the lowest budget part of the gaming market (MX110 and MX130) can be taken. But then- Ryzen Mobile 4-core CPU is kind of too good to give to very cheapest laptops.
2) Maybe better efficiency/less heat in 720p gaming?
3) ?
AMD does not recognize revenue when shipped - its the removal of the product so they might and probably are shipping a bunch of them but its up to the OEM's and their design wins for sell though. Pressure is building on AMD to push their business forward - Consumer Ryzen is a small impact of what they are shipping now. Desktop Ryzen was a big hit but that is a tiny market compared to the server/APU market and with products shipping to both now they are due to explode here in the non to distant future.When you don't have many units available for sale anyway, why would you give them away to reviewers? People won't be able to buy it anyway. It's much cheaper to have the CEO take a picture in front of a store than actually send review units to hundreds of reviewer. It's obvious that AMD did not start volume manufacturing of the APU to ship any meaningful volume in Q4. So, I think it is wise for them to spend as little as possible on marketing the actual product and focus the marketing effort on products they actually have on shelves or corporate image. Ship date for HP x360 is Dec 15th. I won't be surprised if it slips further as time goes on. Either AMD has a massive hit or volume ramp started too late for this holiday shopping season. As much as I'd like to see AMD have a massive hit, their Q4 guidance was clear that they won't be shipping these APU in volume in Q4.
Users report the HP model to run at constant full CPU load at 2.4GHz for indefinite time: "I ranPrime95 for over an hour, and the CPU keep coasting at around 2.4Ghz'.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...0_internals_thanks_to_userthe9thdude/dpy1vpn/
That is a clock (at Prime!) very similar to what is needed for Cinebench score of 550 with mXFR. So cooling must be fine.
But there is one point that I think it is important for AMD: how it positions these chips. So far- a lot of attention is directed at results in gaming. However, iGPU is bandwidth starved like all the previous APUs: it only performs at a level of ~7870K or 940m/MX130.
2500U: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bem_XyjbTDw&feature=youtu.be
7870K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYn4iwfv8cY
Better cooling, or more CUs in R7 2700U can not help with bandwidth (/will not help gaming results much). So I hope AMD understands their product: it shines as a very good CPU, and for gaming it needs to be sold as CPU- with discreet GPUs. Without dGPU- it is able to play heavy AAA games only at 720p low 30fps -which makes it look like a poor gaming product, and can ruin Ryzen Mobile's reputation. So I think it would be wise for AMD to sell 2500U and 2700U at increased prices, but offer bundles with discounted Polaris10, 11 and 12. And for ultra budget 720p gaming on iGPU- new APU SKUs with cut down CPU cores (2c/4t or 3c/6t) would work just as fast, and would not ruin 2500U/2700U image.