AMD Nano Blacklist Situation

[4K_shmoorK]

Lol.... I dunno why you think pc users are some superior race. Most pc users no nothing about it.

Not only did I not say that, I meant that the average pc buyer/builder is more tech savvy than the average smartphone buyer. Which doesn't matter anyways which is why I said its an apples and oranges comparison.

PC master race? No sir, I said nothing of the sort. But the AVERAGE, not random new-forum-member who posts a "got 2 gees, wut should i buy" thread. I mean people who give real thought to what they purchase, not geniuses or the ignorant.

Plus, you know most of those "im gonna buy 4 graphics cards, which ones" threads are just people looking for attention? Can't believe everything you see on the internet.

I had a girl tell me last month that her iphone was twice as fast as her old iphone 5 because it was 64 bit...

That is where I believe the difference is. People that have an interest in the tech vs people that have an interest in the tech as a status symbol.

 

[Ranulf]

I'd like to know the percentage of "uninformed consumers drowing in debt" that buy and build their own PCs. I'd wager the number of uninformed and clueless consumers of enthusiast and mid-range PC buyers/builders is relatively small. And I'm not sure individual debt ratio really plays a part in brand preference.

Uninformed and debt ridden is more indicative of console buyers, no?

Out of the 30+ people I interact with in WoW regularly each week, I can count on one hand the folks who actually have knowledge or interest in enthusiast PC parts or parts in general. The majority come to the few of us that know and talk about this stuff for advice, when they're not ironically/jokingly calling us nerds. I mostly hang out with people like me who are 30+ years old though.

On that TechReport skylake i3 recommendation... utter insanity. The new pentiums would be the budget chip especially since they appear to have the same gpu as the i3. Overall, skylake on a budget system? Just insane. I'll still take haswell for a cheap intel system right now.

 

[3DVagabond]

If AMD brings back the ATI name, I would buy that GPU without even looking at charts. Frankly put, the AMD name to me has always been garbage (Intel fanboy) and I have no love for it. When Bulldozer flounder the stigma/stank of their CPU division stuck to the GPU. Then add in the overpriced AMD RAM and AMD SSDs, and well...

Image is definitely an issue for AMD.

That's sig worthy.

 

[3DVagabond]

You misunderstood what he was saying. We could blame this on the grammar

Anyway,

To the uninformed consumer drowning in debt, brand image is the only thing that is ever going to matter. Raising prices could actually help with brand image.

My translation,

"To the uninformed consumer, [AMD] drowning in debt and brand image is the only thing that is ever going to matter. Raising prices could actually help with brand image."

Actually the grammar was quite clear. You changed it to completely change the meaning. Note the comma after debt not after consumer, where you've put it to change the meaning. The FUD is unbelievable and it being allowed to continue is astounding.

Not only did I not say that, I meant that the average pc buyer/builder is more tech savvy than the average smartphone buyer. Which doesn't matter anyways which is why I said its an apples and oranges comparison.

PC master race? No sir, I said nothing of the sort. But the AVERAGE, not random new-forum-member who posts a "got 2 gees, wut should i buy" thread. I mean people who give real thought to what they purchase, not geniuses or the ignorant.

Plus, you know most of those "im gonna buy 4 graphics cards, which ones" threads are just people looking for attention? Can't believe everything you see on the internet.

I had a girl tell me last month that her iphone was twice as fast as her old iphone 5 because it was 64 bit...

That is where I believe the difference is. People that have an interest in the tech vs people that have an interest in the tech as a status symbol.

The point being made is that in reality the average "PC gamer" does not know as much as you give them credit for. I know quite a few gamers and they know nothing about video cards. Just that they've been told nVidia is better. They buy strictly on brand and what everyone else owns.

Now, you can disagree with that appraisal, but I know my own experience. Repeating what you've said here as a reply, won't change that either.

 

[railven]

That's sig worthy.

By all means, you have my blessings

 

[tential]

Out of the 30+ people I interact with in WoW regularly each week, I can count on one hand the folks who actually have knowledge or interest in enthusiast PC parts or parts in general. The majority come to the few of us that know and talk about this stuff for advice, when they're not ironically/jokingly calling us nerds. I mostly hang out with people like me who are 30+ years old though.

On that TechReport skylake i3 recommendation... utter insanity. The new pentiums would be the budget chip especially since they appear to have the same gpu as the i3. Overall, skylake on a budget system? Just insane. I'll still take haswell for a cheap intel system right now.

People on tech forums have a vastly skewed version of the reality of the average person's CARE for hardware knowledge. People buy their PC, thgen move on. They don't sit there and follow every single erelease, review, performance chart, etc. It's why AMD was so particular on launch reviews, because people look ONCE usually.

But hey that's why the tech community is vastly out of touch with the average consumer.

Out of all the people I've talked to online, outside of tech forums, only TWO people were knowledgable about tech.

Every person I have seen outside of that and interacted with had very little to 0 interest in their PC hardware outside of the fact that "Yo, it's amazing man I have (Insert the fastest Nvidia GPU Out)" and it's amazing. The amount of first time PC hardware purchasers with ZERO knowledge of PC hardware who purchased a 780Ti as a status symbol GPU is utterly ridiculous/fit in with other forum members who said "You must have this GPU, I have it, it's the best!"

Like I said before and I stand by it. Just because people PC game/purchase a PC/build a PC, does not mean they're more knowledgable, or even care about PC hardware. It's just a means to an end.

 

[3DVagabond]

By all means, you have my blessings

I wouldn't do that to ya.

 

[4K_shmoorK]

Now, you can disagree with that appraisal, but I know my own experience. Repeating what you've said here as a reply, won't change that either.

Anecdotal evidence is best evidence. I kid, I kid. Maybe it is optimistic to think most PC builders know a fair bit about what they are getting into but I would like to think they know (or want to know) more than the mainstream "tech accessory" consumer.

Can't stop thinking about ATI branded cards making a come back.

'Dat Nostalgia

 

[3DVagabond]

Anecdotal evidence is best evidence. I kid, I kid. Maybe it is optimistic to think most PC builders know a fair bit about what they are getting into but I would like to think they know (or want to know) more than the mainstream "tech accessory" consumer.

Can't stop thinking about ATI branded cards making a come back.

'Dat Nostalgia

I never wanted them to give up the ATI name. Not because I have any negative feelings about AMD, but to me ATI meant innovation. They're still innovating, but it's just not what comes to mind when you think of AMD.

I also think they were "hipper and cooler" than nVidia. nVidia is something your father would buy.

 

[LTC8K6]

I too, hated the disappearance of the ATI name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Technologies

 

[Sabrewings]

AMD desperately needs to bring back ATI. Actually, they desperately need to sell it off and full fledge name it ATI again, not just as a brand.

 

[antihelten]

Do we know that Pascal addresses async compute in hardware? Or are they going to continue to do software scheduling in the drivers? I haven't seen anything one way or the other. Considering that we just found out Maxwell doesn't have hardware support though, how would we know?

Honestly no, we don't really have any info on Pascal in this regard (or any other really), but I would be extremely surprised if this was still an issue with Pascal.

As someone who just bought a 980TI I want this beast of a card to excel for at least 2 years. If it doens't, this WILL reflect badly on Nvidia. If I see AMD 290's and fury's kicking butt in DX12 in 2 years and my 980ti is a low performer, Then I will go AMD again.

If Nvidia has pascal why would I reward a company for planned obsolescence style shenanigans.

That's all well and good, but history shows us that people like you are a tiny minority. The vast majority of consumers just don't care.

This is not the first time Nvidia has had a bad piece of PR hanging over them, hell it's not even the first time within this generation (the whole 3.5+0.5 debacle). But they pretty much always come out on top and post record quarter after record quarter, and I very much doubt this time will be any different.

 

[3DVagabond]

That's all well and good, but history shows us that people like you are a tiny minority. The vast majority of consumers just don't care.

This is not the first time Nvidia has had a bad piece of PR hanging over them, hell it's not even the first time within this generation (the whole 3.5+0.5 debacle). But they pretty much always come out on top and post record quarter after record quarter, and I very much doubt this time will be any different.

It takes a while for perceptions to change.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I'm interested to hear what design changes you feel need to be made that would allow the engineers to eliminate coil whine from their designs.

Thats kind of hard to say but if I was to guess.. it feels to be like they haven't done enough to model the behavior of a GPU load (analog model) and factor that into the loop compensation design on their VRM.

Unfortunately, engineers with good analog design skills and experience are a rare commodity these days.

 

[antihelten]

It takes a while for perceptions to change.

Nvidia weathered the whole bumpgate saga 7 years ago, and are now doing better than ever. In other words, the worst PR story Nvidia has ever experienced, had zero long term effect on customers perception.

Something like the current Async issue is so small in comparison, that expecting it to somehow affect Nvidia in any significant manner is naive.

Or maybe I'm just being cynical

 

[ocre]

Actually the grammar was quite clear. You changed it to completely change the meaning. Note the comma after debt not after consumer, where you've put it to change the meaning. The FUD is unbelievable and it being allowed to continue is astounding.

.

You think that I was trying to spread FUD? Lol!!!!,!,

Anyway, let's let the guy who made the statement clear it up. Because it really seems off topic, strange, and weird if that is what he was meaning. So much that already people have questioned, wth? Huh?

Myself included. This is why I was like, surely that's not what he meant to say.

 

[Dribble]

Something like the current Async issue is so small in comparison, that expecting it to somehow affect Nvidia in any significant manner is naive.

Or maybe I'm just being cynical

It's only an issue in one bit of demo benchmarking software, that means to everyone but the fanboys it's not an issue at all. There is no proof that it will have any impact on the games which everyone plays in 2016. That's why it's not a problem for consumers.

Equally the 3.5 + 0.5 gig issue outside of geeks arguing on forums effected no-one. There was never any proof in real games it made the slightest difference, and all the 970's had exactly the same performance after the issue was discovered they had before.

Perhaps it's nothing to do with cynical, perhaps it's more to do with it just not mattering to 99.9% of people who own/buy these cards. The only people who care are those who want a good red vs green argument.

 

[3DVagabond]

It's only an issue in one bit of demo benchmarking software, that means to everyone but the fanboys it's not an issue at all. There is no proof that it will have any impact on the games which everyone plays in 2016. That's why it's not a problem for consumers.

Equally the 3.5 + 0.5 gig issue outside of geeks arguing on forums effected no-one. There was never any proof in real games it made the slightest difference, and all the 970's had exactly the same performance after the issue was discovered they had before.

Perhaps it's nothing to do with cynical, perhaps it's more to do with it just not mattering to 99.9% of people who own/buy these cards. The only people who care are those who want a good red vs green argument.

Speak for yourself. You can't possibly know what 99.5% of people care about or the other .5% you claim care for reasons which again, you make claims of being all knowing about.

 

[Keysplayr]

Speak for yourself. You can't possibly know what 99.5% of people care about or the other .5% you claim care for reasons which again, you make claims of being all knowing about.

Actually, he is totally right. All this stuff just makes for good forum fodder and fuel for red vs. green. I say drop it altogether.

 

[xthetenth]

You think that I was trying to spread FUD? Lol!!!!,!,

Anyway, let's let the guy who made the statement clear it up. Because it really seems off topic, strange, and weird if that is what he was meaning. So much that already people have questioned, wth? Huh?

Myself included. This is why I was like, surely that's not what he meant to say.

It parses just fine.

"To the uninformed consumer drowning in debt, brand image is the only thing that is ever going to matter. Raising prices could actually help with brand image."

It means that brand image is paramount to the average customer (who is drowning in debt presumably because of their buying habits), and that raising prices could help improve that brand image and in fact raise demand for their products.

The smug aside about the average consumer's liquidity aside, it's a pretty simple statement arguing along the lines that AMD's priced themselves into being considered the "value" brand.

 

[railven]

Actually, he is totally right. All this stuff just makes for good forum fodder and fuel for red vs. green. I say drop it altogether.

In my circle of friends/associates I was vocal about the 3.5+0.5 GB issue, but then again I'm a nerd forum dweller. (Also, probably because a similar issue affected me with SLI GTX 660 Ti and Skyrim, just happy I got vindicated ).

They got offered rebates. They didn't care one bit. They all seemed happy at the end of it. Go figure. Some walked away with 2 games and $80. SOB!!!

 

[ocre]

So you are sm625?
I guess I that was looking for something more rational.

I thought surely that wasn't what you were saying or meaning.

See, that's not how it works. It kind of blows my mind that anyone would say such a thing, even casually. I don't mean any disrespect but it does blow my mind.

So here are the impassable issues.

1) You don't turn into a premium brand simply by raising the price. If someone shopping at Piggly Wiggly sees Bubba Cola now cost as much as Coca Cola, they just wouldn't buy it. Not only is that an ineffective way to gain sales, it will cost them sales.
2) you could argue that the average consumer is drowning in debt but i want to see some statistics showing that the average person buying/building powerful gaming rigs is drowning in debt. Gaming PCs aren't really floss or bling. This is in every way an unnecessary expense and it won't turn heads the same way an expensive car or jewelry would. I would be willing to wager the people who buy or upgrade often have disposable income. I can't imagine many people maxing out their credit cards because of a PC HW addiction. The people with limited income most likely just don't upgrade often.
3) AMD was choice for gamers on a budget. The bang for your buck company......Think about that

See, the people looking for the most bang for the buck......they aren't upgrading or spending money for these minor performance bumps the past few yrs......since 28nm launched, there has been minimal performance jumps for gpus and even more pathetic for CPUs. The problem is the lack of progress. See, the bang for your buck folks aren't spending money on these tiny performance jumps.

It's not so much AMD lost people to buy gpus, it's just there hasn't been a big enough reason to spend their money. Once that reason comes (hopefully then next node shrink), AMD having higher prices then.....it just seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[xthetenth]

So you are sm625?
I guess I that was looking for something more rational.

I thought surely that wasn't what you were saying or meaning.

See, that's not how it works. It kind of blows my mind that anyone would say such a thing, even casually. I don't mean any disrespect but it does blow my mind.

I tend to agree, I think that a lot of the reason that sort of theory is popular is because it makes the adherent feel good as much as because of any serious ability to withstand scrutiny. However the sentence does parse just fine and says the sort of thing that does have actual believers, so I don't discount it meaning what it says just because I don't agree.