AMD "Never Settle" 12.11 Driver - benchmarks are in!

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Feb 19, 2009
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@Russian, it is very significant the point you raised: Not in recent history had ATI/AMD offered not just superior value but outright superior performance.

Thats why some of the NV trolls are getting their panties in a knot. Do people seriously enjoy paying $500 for a gtx680? Talk about being ripped off and bending over to take it with a smile... in ways only trolls can..
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
Totally subjective analysis of 64-player MP. I tried out Firestorm 64-player, full server with all vehicles. Playing at @ 2560x1600, Ultra settings, 4xMSAA and no FXAA. Clocks are 1325/1650. There's a remarkable improvement. To be noticeable to me I'd say that's at least 10%. Looking over the whole map at the initial screen I'm getting 60FPS, averages I'd say are in the 70FPS ranges, sometimes climbing a mountain it'll peak over 100 FPS. During some really large terrain scenes or some explosions I'll drop below 60 FPS but it's rare. Looks promising guys!

With one card at that res? You need to stop cause now i'm getting a little butt hurt.
 

FleatUWP

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2012
12
0
0
I am glad to see the driver optimization continue. They still have some crossfire and crossfire profile bugs to work out, but glad to see the performance coming along.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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Maybe then AMD would not have the reputation of having bad drivers and wouldn't have to try so hard for a miracle.

Ridiculous argument. I guess NV's drivers were bad before 285.79s for Fermi users? When Fermi launched, many of us expected that GTX470/480/570/580 performance would improve, and it did. I bought a 470 expecting NV to improve drivers within 6 months, knowing upfront that Fermi's launch drivers weren't fully optimized. GTX470 was slower than HD5870 too but I had a feeling 6 months down the line with newer drivers and 470's overclocking, the value 470 offered was pretty good.

You are saying NV was desperate too when they squeezed 10% more performance from Fermi while moving from 266.58 to 285.79? According to you, improving performance for new architectures through driver releases now means you had garbage drivers all along?

Major new architecture = driver improvements are expected (See Fermi and GCN). Old / slightly revised architecture = expect little to no graphical improvements and mature drivers out of the gate (See HD6000 series and Kepler).

I want AMD to pull through, but this is a desperate move and this level of enthusiasm should have been present long ago.

AMD's cards were already faster at each price level, especially HD7970 and 7970 GE were already faster than GTX670/680 before Cats 12.11s. You are saying their drivers were still crap despite being in the lead since June? And all those games where GTX680 was losing in since June don't count either as NV's driver team not doing its job?

I find it amusing people aren't seeing what AMD did - close the gaps in performance where they trailed and extend the performance lead where NV was losing. NV didn't close gaps in games where it was trailing HD7970 since March! I guess now AMD gets penalized for improving performance in games across the board but NV gets a pass for doing squat in games where it continues to lose by 15-20%?

Notice how HD7970 GE was 8% faster at HWC at 1600P and now that's 15%? AMD is not desperate and if anything is pulling away even further from NV's flagship single-GPU card. 15% is now getting close to GTX580 vs. HD6970.

I also find it interesting that when a company offers more value to gamers in terms of price/performance and game bundles, they are desperate but NV selling $450-550 GTX680 is somehow great for us gamers? I guess I didn't get the memo that NV users love giving NV more of their hard earned money and don't want NV to offer free games since it hurts NV's margins. Based on some of the responses on this forum, you'd think everyone here is an NV stock holder and drives BMWs since well if NV lowers prices and offers more than 1 free game trying to bring more value to gamers, they are desperate and god forbid it lowers their earnings!

Next stop: NV stops improving drivers because improving performance means your drivers suck, stops bundling games because game bundles are viewed as desperate and raises prices on next generation GTX700 cards from $499 to $699 for the flagship card because its customers want to pay more $ to feel as if NV's brand is truly premium. Bundles, lower prices, deriver improvements all make NV look desperate if they do any sort of things. Why would gamers ever want these things?

It's pretty funny how to NV owners it never once has occurred that NV has been tacking on a $50-100 extra premium for the brand name knowing you'll pay. JHH must be laughing right now knowing he is building up a nice cushion of cash from each GTX670/680 for his new Ferrari upgrade, sold since he successfully nurtured a culture of consumers who "apparently" don't like price/performance or game bundles! I am pretty sure it's not the case and that people who buy NV cards also want value and game bundles, outside of the hardcore NV loyalists who won't buy an HD7970 even if it was $150.

AMD has an Apple problem on its hands. When the competitor's loyal following is like sheep, throwing $ at poor cards like GTX550Ti, GeForce 5 (esp. FX5200), or 8600GT, it's hard to figure out any strategy of how to convert customers like that. Even when AMD gave cards away for nearly 40-50% off during HD5800 generation, and launched HD5850/5870 6 months before GTX470/480, most NV users didn't switch. Now AMD is offering more performance, higher price/performance and higher value through game bundles and NV users still can't admit their team is offering worse value and their cards are currently nearly impossible to recommend. And then people are wondering why NV offered so little performance increase this generation? Why in the world would NV launch a 60-100% faster GTX780 when NV knows its customers would throw $500 again for 25-30% more performance and love it.

@Russian, it is very significant the point you raised: Not in recent history had ATI/AMD offered not just superior value but outright superior performance.

Thats why some of the NV trolls are getting their panties in a knot. Do people seriously enjoy paying $500 for a gtx680? Talk about being ripped off and bending over to take it with a smile... in ways only trolls can..

I don't get it myself. I thought it would great if NV also improved drivers, lowered prices or added its own game bundles to offer consumers more value.

This is eerily like X1950XTX or X850XT PE generations, except at lower prices than the competition! In those generations, ATI held the performance edge in most shader intensive/GPU intensive games, while NV had superior performance in OpenGL and flight sims. Even then NV cards had some pretty big wins in some games. GTX680's last huge battleground was BF3 and now with that gone, where exactly does GTX680 hold a considerable performance advantage? Portal 2 with SSAA, Lost Planet 2, HAWX 2? Without PhysX, this list can be counted on 1 hand.

With AMD Gaming Evolved, AMD is using the exact same strategy NV has used for years - leveraging the game code to make their cards perform faster. I guess all these games: Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs, Dirt Showdown, Sniper Elite V2, Anno 2070, Alan Wake, MOH:W, Hitman Absolution, Far Cry 3, Metro 2033 are all unfair to include in a game test since they are likely to favor AMD cards? Whose fault is that? NV started TWIMTPB program and now the competitor said: "You know what, we'll throw $ at developers too." NV has nothing to worry about since JHH knows its customer base will stick around, all he needs to do is find another game to market PhysX to the world and how awesome it is (Planet Side 2? Hawken?).
 
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Thenox

Junior Member
Oct 22, 2012
5
0
0
Beta 3 apparently fixed the BF3 problems, but Skyrim is still missing shadows on the highest setting.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,734
514
126
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@Russian, it is very significant the point you raised: Not in recent history had ATI/AMD offered not just superior value but outright superior performance.

Thats why some of the NV trolls are getting their panties in a knot. Do people seriously enjoy paying $500 for a gtx680? Talk about being ripped off and bending over to take it with a smile... in ways only trolls can..

The AMD bundle and value of their products are quite exceptional right now, but you make yourself look every bit like the trolls you attempt to call out when you purposely cite incorrect information. The gtx680 has been ~$450 or cheaper for sometime now.
 
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djnsmith7

Platinum Member
Apr 13, 2004
2,612
1
0
Not normally a fan of beta drivers, but I'm giving these a shot. Haven't run any benchmarks yet, but graphics wise, they seem ok. Haven't had any hiccups yet. Have Fraps running in the background & the min. & avg. numbers seem to be about what I had with the 12.8's, maybe a couple fps higher. That's only from occasional glances while playing BF3.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
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@ Russian

Wow, you must have mechanical fingers because mine would have broke from typing that much.
Regarding the drivers being a desperate move, I hold my position and here is why. Despite being a good move, it seems that they are trying extra hard to go the extra mile and really give it all they got on all fronts in order to survive, and they should. Any company would do that. I am stating it as a concern because it seems clear to me that this move is very aggressive, over the top and very out of the ordinary. Does this move by AMD not seem out of the ordinary and coincidentally parallel the trouble they are having?
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,734
514
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@ Russian

Wow, you must have mechanical fingers because mine would have broke from typing that much.
Regarding the drivers being a desperate move, I hold my position and here is why. Despite being a good move, it seems that they are trying extra hard to go the extra mile and really give it all they got on all fronts in order to survive, and they should. Any company would do that. I am stating it as a concern because it seems clear to me that this move is very aggressive, over the top and very out of the ordinary. Does this move by AMD not seem out of the ordinary and coincidentally parallel the trouble they are having?

I don't think their driver development coincides with company financials. The driver release coinciding with the new bundle is likely not by chance, though. I do think that if AMD was happy with their GPU sales, they would not have created this new bundle. Thus, as some people have alluded to in this thread, I also think their sales must be pretty sluggish for them to be coming out with a new bundle consisting of 2 unreleased AAA games and another AAA game that is still fairly new and goes for $25-40 regularly.

Usually the company that is struggling with sales is the one that is actively slashing prices and drumming up this kind of interest (although this particularly bundle, as others have said, is particularly fantastic). Nvidia did it with the gx480, 470, and 465 so it's not unusual.
 
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chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,649
61
101
Not trying to argue, but seriously, why does AMDs financial situation matter to us again, and why is it brought up consistently in threads about graphics card performance? Is it an attempt to make AMD look bad by any means necessary, now that they're pretty much winning in all metrics but power consumption? Well no, not even power consumption, because as long as the card is winning, more power usage is trivial... right?

Anyway, that first question was an honest one.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Awww. Don't take the troll bait. Some people try their hardest to blow everything out of proportion, find negatives where everyone else sees positives, cast everything as desperation, etc.

Back on topic: After reading the reviews in more detail, I think most likely AMD was working on the new Medal of Honor game using the same engine as BF3 and found and squashed a bug or something and that helped BF3 as well. Also, AMD has been skipping monthly drivers and this relatively large jump in %performance may have gotten lost in the shuffle if the delta had been spread out over more time.


Ridiculous argument. I guess NV's drivers were bad before 285.79s for Fermi users?

You are saying NV was desperate too when they squeezed 10% more performance from Fermi while moving from 266.58 to 285.79? According to you, improving performance for new architectures through driver releases now means you had garbage drivers all along?

Major new architecture = driver improvements are expected (See Fermi and GCN). Old / slightly revised architecture = expect little to no graphical improvements and mature drivers out of the gate (See HD6000 series and Kepler).



AMD's cards were already faster at each price level, especially HD7970 and 7970 GE were already faster than GTX670/680 before Cats 12.11s. You are saying their drivers were still crap despite being in the lead since June? And all those games where GTX680 was losing in since June don't count either as NV's driver team not doing its job?

I find it amusing people aren't seeing what AMD did - close the gaps in performance where they trailed and extend the performance lead where NV was losing. NV didn't close gaps in games where it was trailing HD7970 since March! I guess now AMD gets penalized for improving performance in games across the board but NV gets a pass for doing squat in games where it continues to lose by 15-20%?

Notice how HD7970 GE was 8% faster at HWC at 1600P and now that's 15%? AMD is not desperate and if anything is pulling away even further from NV's flagship single-GPU card. 15% is now getting close to GTX580 vs. HD6970.

I also find it interesting that when a company offers more value to gamers in terms of price/performance and game bundles, they are desperate but NV selling $450-550 GTX680 is somehow great for us gamers? I guess I didn't get the memo that NV users love giving NV more of their hard earned money and don't want NV to offer free games since it hurts NV's margins. Based on some of the responses on this forum, you'd think everyone here is an NV stock holder and drives BMWs since well if NV lowers prices and offers more than 1 free game trying to bring more value to gamers, they are desperate and god forbid it lowers their earnings!

Next stop: NV stops improving drivers because improving performance means your drivers suck, stops bundling games because game bundles are viewed as desperate and raises prices on next generation GTX700 cards from $499 to $699 for the flagship card because its customers want to pay more $ to feel as if NV's brand is truly premium. Bundles, lower prices, deriver improvements all make NV look desperate if they do any sort of things. Why would gamers ever want these things?

It's pretty funny how to NV owners it never once has occurred that NV has been tacking on a $50-100 extra premium for the brand name knowing you'll pay. JHH must be laughing right now knowing he is building up a nice cushion of cash from each GTX670/680 for his new Ferrari upgrade, sold since he successfully nurtured a culture of consumers who "apparently" don't like price/performance or game bundles! I am pretty sure it's not the case and that people who buy NV cards also want value and game bundles, outside of the hardcore NV loyalists who won't buy an HD7970 even if it was $150.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
Odd... both the 12.10 WHQL and the 12.11 beta released simultaneously. I guess 12.10 is just certified 12.9? Anyways I'll be back later to report if any of my 7870
 

djnsmith7

Platinum Member
Apr 13, 2004
2,612
1
0
How do you guys always manage to venture so far off the topic & turn these discussions into nonsense? This thread should be about the drivers, whether or not people want to give them a shot, changes in performance, better or worse than previous releases.

This AMD vs. Nvidia is nonsense & old. I currently own both, seriously considering switching to the 670 4GB & who cares. Both camps make good, competitive cards.

Although for this round (7xxx series), I haven't been impressed with AMD's drivers at all.
 

Piano Man

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
3,370
0
76
Well that does it, I'm finally sold. Now which 7970 is the quietest while having decent OC abilites and doesn't take up 3 slots (sorry ASUS)
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,734
514
126
www.facebook.com
Not trying to argue, but seriously, why does AMDs financial situation matter to us again, and why is it brought up consistently in threads about graphics card performance? Is it an attempt to make AMD look bad by any means necessary, now that they're pretty much winning in all metrics but power consumption? Well no, not even power consumption, because as long as the card is winning, more power usage is trivial... right?

Anyway, that first question was an honest one.

For once you said something that was constructive, non-combative, raised good points, and expressed your personal opinions with civility. Amazing!
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
The reason AMD giving 3 games and a coupon for free away is because they lost the whole OEM market to nVidia in this round. Desktop is the only place they are really selling chips right now. And instead of cutting the prices again they increase the value of the cards.

I think this statement is mostly correct. AMD is obviously pushing their desktop parts as it's their strongest product lineup. I believe it's more because of the overall financial situation and them trying to increase income where they best can. I don't think it's directly related to the OEM market or nVidia though. It's more likely due to their terrible CPU performance.

Sure, but i don't think that they got the keys for free. We talking about Sleeping Dogs (2 months old), two not released titles and a 20% off coupon.

For the 7900 bundle i guess it costs them around $50.

Do you actually have any idea what these gaming bundles cost? This is usually a trade deal that is designed to help both parties rather than having money exchange hands. For example, AMD helps with development and/or promotion and get free games in return.

Now it makes sense that they given no margin guidance for Q4. That game bundle must hurt their margin...

Do you have some sort of source for inside info like this?
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,734
514
126
www.facebook.com
Do you actually have any idea what these gaming bundles cost? This is usually a trade deal that is designed to help both parties rather than having money exchange hands. For example, AMD helps with development and/or promotion and get free games in return.

I call complete BS on this one. Prior to this year, Nvidia completely dominated the developer support system and they have never had a bundle this large or relevant insofar as release dates surrounding the games. There is definitely money exchanging hands - probably $15 or so per key for the unreleased games, and maybe $7-10 for sleeping dogs. A $15 price cut on a $450 video card doesn't make much of a big difference, but when including a brand new game (let alone two) that won't be available for less than $45-50 for two months or so creates a huge perceived value and it's better on the bottom dollar than dropping the price of the card by $40-50. No publisher is going to hand over 50,000 game keys without monetary compensation in return. If I'm wrong prove it.
 
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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,320
2,928
126
The damn explorer.exe crashes are fixed with these. I guess I'm in the minority here looking for fixes rather than performance increases. I'm ready for the next gen cards.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
The damn explorer.exe crashes are fixed with these. I guess I'm in the minority here looking for fixes rather than performance increases. I'm ready for the next gen cards.

You've been having those too? I thought it was just something else with my PC. They have been happening so infrequently i figured my ram was dying or something. Gonna download these and see if it happens again.
 
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