AMD & NV image quality comparison

[garagisti]

I disagree. It appears pretty clear that any problem can be isolated to a single user. The evidence suggests that that users settings are 0AF in the proof he is submitting.

There has been ample evidence of nvidia users in this very thread illustrating that they are not experiencing the same results as the person who initiated this kerfuffle. To be quite frank - were I one of those nvidia users in this thread, and if I saw some of the "trust the source" posts that are flying around in here, I'd be pretty offended.


Edit

Seriously - has anyone else been able to replicate the original findings without forcing 0AF? Anyone at all?

Because if so, I have yet to see it.

Now, now, a lot of people were indeed offended about the kerfuffle with the 970. Read the threads here, or anywhere on the internet concerning the same. I just want to make a decision which is in my best interest (forget who started this or the one about 970). Obviously, this was indeed something which was a concern and not that many years ago for that matter. So yes, while some of us are may be jumpy, but certainly it isn't without any reason as you purport.

I did say that i'm open to anything really. I have a budget of a 980ti or a Fury (whatever variant), as i see those two as the only options in the price bracket for myself. If at all this is true in the slightest, i'd rather save myself whatever dough i can and be done with a variant of Fury. If not, then i'd try and get a watercooled 980ti.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Now, now, a lot of people were indeed offended about the kerfuffle with the 970.

Very few people actually were bothered by it the 970 sells extremely well. I think the same thing applies to image quality people just don't care enough about it or will even notice. They see the card at the top of the chart in their price range and done deal.

 

[Tapoer]

I disagree. It appears pretty clear that any problem can be isolated to a single user. The evidence suggests that that users settings are 0AF in the proof he is submitting.

There has been ample evidence of nvidia users in this very thread illustrating that they are not experiencing the same results as the person who initiated this kerfuffle. To be quite frank - were I one of those nvidia users in this thread, and if I saw some of the "trust the source" posts that are flying around in here, I'd be pretty offended.


Edit

Seriously - has anyone else been able to replicate the original findings without forcing 0AF? Anyone at all?

Because if so, I have yet to see it.

Did you carefully read this thread from the beginning?

This seems to be happening to at least some users that switch from AMD, use DDU to clear drivers, and install the Nvidia card with new drivers.

This problem/bug doesn't seem to exist to people that had no AMD card on their system or used a fresh OS install.

 

[Erenhardt]

When 970 3,5GB fiasco reached surface, there were some people on this forum actively shoving it under a rug, trying to lock the thread at all cost. Deep denial and disgusting attempts to discredit sources were the main means of action. If you look through this thread and the thread about 3,5GB, you can see the same names taking the same places, using the same tricks, just the topic changed.

I think this thread should also include a poll. Do you believe in "losslessness" of nvidia lossless color compression? How far can they push image quality degradation before poeple will notice? We had some people going from amd to nv noticing image quality loss without magnifying glass-side-by-side screenshot comparision. Most users don't use 2 graphics cards, one from each vendor to compare quality - they will never know what details they are missing. In this example the line can be pushed a lot.

Reviewers who have free access to whole range of graphics cards from every manufacturer should pay close attention to this matter, as we had this type of stuff happen in the past.

nv is experimenting with the market:
1. $1000 GPU
2. False gpu specifications
3. Mobile overclocking is bug.
4. Neglecting performance for competition...
5. ...and their own relatively fresh (1year old) user base.
6. And now image quality shenanigans...

I had that feeling in a guts that nv may be doing something to worsen user experience for those that switched from nv to amd. Something with the drivers, that would still be in the system after nv driver was uninstalled, that would later make amd gpu perform worse than it should, causing driver issues for amd. At this point I wouldn't put that past nv given their recent history.

 

[jj109]

When 970 3,5GB fiasco reached surface, there were some people on this forum actively shoving it under a rug, trying to lock the thread at all cost. Deep denial and disgusting attempts to discredit sources were the main means of action. If you look through this thread and the thread about 3,5GB, you can see the same names taking the same places, using the same tricks, just the topic changed.

...

I had that feeling in a guts that nv may be doing something to worsen user experience for those that switched from nv to amd. Something with the drivers, that would still be in the system after nv driver was uninstalled, that would later make amd gpu perform worse than it should, causing driver issues for amd. At this point I wouldn't put that past nv given their recent history.

So you have nothing new to contribute to this thread other than paranoia and "I told you so" from the one time the AMD camp was right about some shenanigans out of the many conspiracy theories.

 

[Sabrewings]

I had that feeling in a guts that nv may be doing something to worsen user experience for those that switched from nv to amd. Something with the drivers, that would still be in the system after nv driver was uninstalled, that would later make amd gpu perform worse than it should, causing driver issues for amd. At this point I wouldn't put that past nv given their recent history.

Yes! That must be it! The more devious and complicated answer is obviously true over the fact that computers, GPUs, and driver sets are immensely complicated sets of technology and that some mistake has been made. I'm glad you're with us to point this out! D:

 

[garagisti]

Yes! That must be it! The more devious and complicated answer is obviously true over the fact that computers, GPUs, and driver sets are immensely complicated sets of technology and that some mistake has been made. I'm glad you're with us to point this out! D:

I'm glad that you're with us to ignore all the points he brought up of previous times where dodgy behaviour (of various intensities) on part of the same corporation was detected by users. Obviously, it wouldn't sound so crazy as you make it out to be, if you read the examples he listed, and verify if it were all true or not (he didn't include bump issues). I genuinely don't blame him for not blindly trusting a corporation which is out for its own best interests, which you're more than willing to defend here and how.

 

[x3sphere]

I'm glad that you're with us to ignore all the points he brought up of previous times where dodgy behaviour (of various intensities) on part of the same corporation was detected by users. Obviously, it wouldn't sound so crazy as you make it out to be, if you read the examples he listed, and verify if it were all true or not (he didn't include bump issues). I genuinely don't blame him for not blindly trusting a corporation which is out for its own best interests, which you're more than willing to defend here and how.

His post is utterly ridiculous. It's well known that Maxwell's color compression is lossless and AMD did a similar thing with Tonga. Nothing to do with this.

DDU has been known to cause problems, by the way. It's why I never advocate using those driver uninstall programs. Safer to just use the uninstall utilities provided by both vendors.

 

[godihatework]

Did you carefully read this thread from the beginning?

This seems to be happening to at least some users that switch from AMD, use DDU to clear drivers, and install the Nvidia card with new drivers.

This problem/bug doesn't seem to exist to people that had no AMD card on their system or used a fresh OS install.

that's some pretty aggressive goalpost shifting on your part there sir. Should i go through your post history in this very thread to show the allegations which were being thrown around?

 

[Tapoer]

Yes I shifted my position from what appeared to be a problem with the defaults settings on the NCP, to that only be a problem when switching from AMD to Nvidia when more reports and information came along.

If I didn't change my position with more evidence I would be stubborn and/or dumb and/or trolling and/or someone bias and/or someone with an agenda.

 

[SolMiester]

When 970 3,5GB fiasco reached surface, there were some people on this forum actively shoving it under a rug, trying to lock the thread at all cost. Deep denial and disgusting attempts to discredit sources were the main means of action. If you look through this thread and the thread about 3,5GB, you can see the same names taking the same places, using the same tricks, just the topic changed.

I think this thread should also include a poll. Do you believe in "losslessness" of nvidia lossless color compression? How far can they push image quality degradation before poeple will notice? We had some people going from amd to nv noticing image quality loss without magnifying glass-side-by-side screenshot comparision. Most users don't use 2 graphics cards, one from each vendor to compare quality - they will never know what details they are missing. In this example the line can be pushed a lot.



Reviewers who have free access to whole range of graphics cards from every manufacturer should pay close attention to this matter, as we had this type of stuff happen in the past.

nv is experimenting with the market:
1. $1000 GPU
2. False gpu specifications
3. Mobile overclocking is bug.
4. Neglecting performance for competition...
5. ...and their own relatively fresh (1year old) user base.
6. And now image quality shenanigans...

I had that feeling in a guts that nv may be doing something to worsen user experience for those that switched from nv to amd. Something with the drivers, that would still be in the system after nv driver was uninstalled, that would later make amd gpu perform worse than it should, causing driver issues for amd. At this point I wouldn't put that past nv given their recent history.

LOL, I have a feeling some people will do anything to discredit NV!

 

[Glo.]

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041709168&postcount=84

Has anyone seen this?
http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=240209&postcount=30

The quote is hilarious.

 

[desprado]

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041709168&postcount=84

Has anyone seen this?
http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=240209&postcount=30

The quote is hilarious.

Yes and anandtech Nvidia users has provided the prof there is no problem.There are 2 things to be of sure that whether his PC has problems or something is wrong with his titan X.

 

[Silverforce11]

Any of you guys with the screenshots use the extra driver software like geforce experience, that auto optimize games?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Do you believe in "losslessness" of nvidia lossless color compression?

Any evidence it is not?

I use FLAC for my audio files. Lossless. I use zip and 7z for my archives. Lossless. PNG for bitmaps. Lossless.

No dark sorcery is needed to implement lossless compression. Huffman coding dates back to the 1950s and Lempel-Ziv to 1977.

 

[godihatework]

Yes I shifted my position from what appeared to be a problem with the defaults settings on the NCP, to that only be a problem when switching from AMD to Nvidia when more reports and information came along.

If I didn't change my position with more evidence I would be stubborn and/or dumb and/or trolling and/or someone bias and/or someone with an agenda.

great. now look six posts above yours and tell me that people aren't espousing your former position currently in the thread.

 

[desprado]

Any of you guys with the screenshots use the extra driver software like geforce experience, that auto optimize games?

No I do not use it because Geforce Experience is totally crap and waste of time.

 

[RussianSensation]

Yes and anandtech Nvidia users has provided the prof there is no problem.There are 2 things to be of sure that whether his PC has problems or something is wrong with his titan X.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with his Titan X. NV and AMD for decades had a setting in the control panel giving gamers a choice between Performance and Quality settings. In fact, this goes back to 1990s and even ATI had it. Any PC gamer worth his salt who buys $500+ flagship cards only games with CCC/NV control Panel set to Quality (unless you are just benchmarking for e-peen). That's why sites like Computerbase, PCGamesHardware, etc. that analyzed this for years would confirm that NV's Performance reduces AF/texture quality IQ in some games. Any time I buy an NV GPU, I always use Quality as I don't care about 10% more performance loss at the cost of reduced texture/filtering IQ.

HardOCP's response that they leave everything on default in NV's Control Panel (i.e., Performance mode) and refuse to set it to Quality to match AMD's Quality just continues to show that the site has completely lost touch with reality about objective GPU testing.

This doesn't change the current recommendation for most gamers who overclock (i.e., after-market 980TI > Fury X) but it shouldn't even be a discussion in 2015 that all GPU testing should be done with CCC/NV control panel texture/filtering set to Quality, no exceptions. If I wanted texture filtering optimizations at the cost of IQ, I'd be gaming exclusively on a PS4, not a $650+ GPU.

 

[godihatework]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with his Titan X. NV and AMD for decades had a setting in the control panel giving gamers a choice between Performance and Quality settings. In fact, this goes back to 1990s and even ATI had it. Any PC gamer worth his salt who buys $500+ flagship cards only games with CCC/NV control Panel set to Quality (unless you are just benchmarking for e-peen). That's why sites like Computerbase, PCGamesHardware, etc. that analyzed this for years would confirm that NV's Performance reduces AF/texture quality IQ in some games. Any time I buy an NV GPU, I always use Quality as I don't care about 10% more performance loss at the cost of reduced texture/filtering IQ.

HardOCP's response that they leave everything on default in NV's Control Panel (i.e., Performance mode) and refuse to set it to Quality to match AMD's Quality just continues to show that the site has completely lost touch with reality about objective GPU testing.

This doesn't change the current recommendation for most gamers who overclock (i.e., after-market 980TI > Fury X) but it shouldn't even be a discussion in 2015 that all GPU testing should be done with CCC/NV control panel texture/filtering set to Quality, no exceptions.

Are you just overtly ignoring the findings of those in this very thread who have shown with default NVCP settings that this persons results cannot be replicated, or are you pushing an agenda?

 

[desprado]

Are you just overtly ignoring the findings of those in this very thread who have shown with default NVCP settings that this persons results cannot be replicated, or are you pushing an agenda?

He did not even bother to look at recent post that people posted screenshot that shows he has no clue about this topic.

 

[RussianSensation]

Are you just overtly ignoring the findings of those in this very thread who have shown with default NVCP settings that this persons results cannot be replicated, or are you pushing an agenda?

I am not pushing any agenda. I've owned a lot of NV/ATI/AMD GPUs over the last 15+ years. I do not game in Performance setting with either brand. Going back as far as GeForce 2 and ATI Rage 128 Pro, I can tell you that the performance setting reduces IQ in some games. Since I do not get paid 6 figures to test 10,000 PC games released in the last 30 years to compare texture filtering IQ between Performance and Quality setting, I always use Quality setting with my cards. Even going back to HD5870/6870 Cats 10.8/10.9 drivers (irrc) where Computerbase noted a reduction in quality using the Performance setting in CCC, it's been understood/implied that all AMD/NV GPU testing should always be done at Quality setting. If some sites still use NV's default (performance) setting is mind-boggling.

He did not even bother to look at recent post that people posted screenshot that shows he has no clue about this topic.

Even if that particular BF4 screenshot has been shown to be incorrect, NV's Quality setting produces superior IQ in games than the Performance setting. While in some games the IQ is identical, there is a reason NV/AMD created the distinction and this goes back 20+ years of GPU testing. It's not my fault you haven't followed GPUs for that long or you would have been this topic come up over the last 2 decades. It's been proven time and time again that the only way to ensure the best IQ for AMD/NV cards is to use Quality setting since it's impossible for any reviewer to test 10000+ games. I am not going to go and buy an NV card so I can perform testing on 10000 games for you to prove my point as professional reviewers like Computerbase have already shown this 5-10 years ago.

 

[godihatework]

I am not pushing any agenda. I've owned a lot of NV/ATI/AMD GPUs over the last 15+ years. I do not game in Performance setting with either brand. Going back as far as GeForce 2 and ATI Rage 128 Pro, I can tell you that the performance setting reduces IQ in some games. Since I do not get paid 6 figures to test 10,000 PC games released in the last 30 years to compare texture filtering IQ between Performance and Quality setting, I always use Quality setting with my cards. Even going back to HD5870/6870 Cats 10.8/10.9 drivers (irrc) where Computerbase noted a reduction in quality using the Performance setting in CCC, it's been understood/implied that all AMD/NV GPU testing should always be done at Quality setting. If some sites still use NV's default (performance) setting is mind-boggling.



Even if that particular BF4 screenshot has been shown to be incorrect, NV's Quality setting produces superior IQ in games than the Performance setting. While in some games the IQ is identical, there is a reason NV/AMD created the distinction and this goes back 20+ years of GPU testing. It's not my fault you haven't followed GPUs for that long or you would have been this topic come up over the last 2 decades. It's been proven time and time again that the only way to ensure the best IQ for AMD/NV cards is to use Quality setting since it's impossible for any reviewer to test 10000+ games. I am not going to go and buy an NV card so I can perform testing on 10000 games for you to prove my point as professional reviewers like Computerbase have already shown this 5-10 years ago.

The driver default is "Let the Application Decide"

So, yeah. No.

 

[desprado]

I am not pushing any agenda. I've owned a lot of NV/ATI/AMD GPUs over the last 15+ years. I do not game in Performance setting with either brand. Going back as far as GeForce 2 and ATI Rage 128 Pro, I can tell you that the performance setting reduces IQ in some games. Since I do not get paid 6 figures to test 10,000 PC games released in the last 30 years to compare texture filtering IQ between Performance and Quality setting, I always use Quality setting with my cards. Even going back to HD5870/6870 Cats 10.8/10.9 drivers (irrc) where Computerbase noted a reduction in quality using the Performance setting in CCC, it's been understood/implied that all AMD/NV GPU testing should always be done at Quality setting. If some sites still use NV's default (performance) setting is mind-boggling.



Even if that particular BF4 screenshot has been shown to be incorrect, NV's Quality setting produces superior IQ in games than the Performance setting. While in some games the IQ is identical, there is a reason NV/AMD created the distinction and this goes back 20+ years of GPU testing. It's not my fault you haven't followed GPUs for that long or you would have been this topic come up over the last 2 decades. It's been proven time and time again that the only way to ensure the best IQ for AMD/NV cards is to use Quality setting since it's impossible for any reviewer to test 10000+ games. I am not going to go and buy an NV card so I can perform testing on 10000 games for you to prove my point as professional reviewers like Computerbase have already shown this 5-10 years ago.

Check recent this
Look at my results.

A single GTX 980 on 1080p

NCP AF 16X and high quality

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/16...673/nyZBwC.png

NCP AF 0X (Gerg Image quality)

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1920x1080.../909/MvmOvF.png

NCP default (let the 3D application decide)

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/16...661/UXV95h.png

There is no difference expect AFX0.
There are also 2 or 3 GTX 980 Ti owner posted their result and you check that out but if are ignoring that i cannot argue with that.

 

[Tapoer]

Are you just overtly ignoring the findings of those in this very thread who have shown with default NVCP settings that this persons results cannot be replicated, or are you pushing an agenda?

No person on this thread switched from AMD to Nvidia and used DDU to replicate what Gregster did.

 

[desprado]

No person on this thread switched from AMD to Nvidia and used DDU to replicate what Gregster did.

I did you can check my recent topics.

Recently i had GTX 780 Ti and MSI R9 290X lighting so when i moved to R9 290X i had totally blur image quality and even DDU did not help so what i did was i completely removed my all driver registry files and remove my driver through safe mode by using DDU.