AMD & NV image quality comparison

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railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Nice to see people testing this issue out (been gone all day, was itching to see if it was resolved.)

So it seems there is possibly a bug coming from AMD to NV? As someone who went from NV to AMD to NV to AMD and then back to NV only to get one last switch to NV all perhaps a 3-4 day period - should I be looking for something?

What I mean is:
GTX 680
<DDU in safe mode>
single 290X
<DDU in safe mode>
GTX 780 Lightning
<DDU in safe mode>
290X CF
<DDU in safe mode>
GTX 680
<DDU in safe mode>
GTX 980 Ti

I honestly had no idea if there were any bugs, and now I'm wondering if any of the benches I ran on the various cards even reflect reality. Haha. Sitting here through a few Firestrikes, I don't recall any faded, but I clearly showed early in this thread I can't notice fading to being with

TL;DR:
Is it a bug or is NV cheating? Should I send my 980 Ti back and get a Fury X? Internet, tell me what to do! :awe:
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
126
No person on this thread switched from AMD to Nvidia and used DDU to replicate what Gregster did.

No one used a Titan X either, as far as I can tell (only 980/980 Ti)

So the possibility of this being an issue isolated to the Titan X still remains.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
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Just wait and see a proper unbiased site test IQ with default, quality, high quality or performance and see if there are differences in current popular titles.

Thats why I said at the start I think it may be a bug and I would not call it a cheating until its proven so. Because who the heck would be brazen enough to cheat like that these days! lol
 

desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
1,645
0
0
Just wait and see a proper unbiased site test IQ with default, quality, high quality or performance and see if there are differences in current popular titles.

Thats why I said at the start I think it may be a bug and I would not call it a cheating until its proven so. Because who the heck would be brazen enough to cheat like that these days! lol
It is a bug just see these videos and tell me that do you find any IQ difference.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc_pXTkRefg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaNGwEl0vU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaNGwEl0vU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i_RmuSYP7w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYIueIbQ6dM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PniRZaA3zMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrSkRC7QvIM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9walJtvG60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9v7DKVW4M4

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Project-CARS...k-Test-1158026/

If there was a case than of course it would have been highlighted.Now a days internet is very fast.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Just wait and see a proper unbiased site test IQ with default, quality, high quality or performance and see if there are differences in current popular titles.

Thats why I said at the start I think it may be a bug and I would not call it a cheating until its proven so. Because who the heck would be brazen enough to cheat like that these days! lol

I dunno. That whole 970 debacle in this digital age still went on for like 4 months. Haha.

Oh well, I forgot to mention I use Windows Uninstaller first then DDU after reboot to uninstall all my GPU drivers.

Back to playing games.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,524
602
126
I always use the high quality setting on Nvidia. I think the default is quality. At least in the past, this definitely had an impact on the AF quality, at the cost of a slight performance hit. I haven't checked what effect it has recently, but you might as well just use the highest quality mode with the performance of today's cards.

There were big issues with AF optimizations a decade ago, around the 6800/X800 generation, but both companies steadily improved the filtering until it ceased to become a point of discussion. I think you still need to set this manually to get the best AF quality though.
 
Last edited:

Mondozei

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2013
1,043
41
86
There is absolutely nothing wrong with his Titan X. NV and AMD for decades had a setting in the control panel giving gamers a choice between Performance and Quality settings. In fact, this goes back to 1990s and even ATI had it. Any PC gamer worth his salt who buys $500+ flagship cards only games with CCC/NV control Panel set to Quality (unless you are just benchmarking for e-peen). That's why sites like Computerbase, PCGamesHardware, etc. that analyzed this for years would confirm that NV's Performance reduces AF/texture quality IQ in some games. Any time I buy an NV GPU, I always use Quality as I don't care about 10% more performance loss at the cost of reduced texture/filtering IQ.

HardOCP's response that they leave everything on default in NV's Control Panel (i.e., Performance mode) and refuse to set it to Quality to match AMD's Quality just continues to show that the site has completely lost touch with reality about objective GPU testing.

This doesn't change the current recommendation for most gamers who overclock (i.e., after-market 980TI > Fury X) but it shouldn't even be a discussion in 2015 that all GPU testing should be done with CCC/NV control panel texture/filtering set to Quality, no exceptions. If I wanted texture filtering optimizations at the cost of IQ, I'd be gaming exclusively on a PS4, not a $650+ GPU.

As others have pointed out already: Gregster got his result only by 0x AF, which isn't by default in the default settings in the NV drivers. There have been multiple people testing with normal/default NV settings and got much better results. The reality is that the standard settings are fine. If you want 0xAF you need to custom-tweak your settings but Gregster hasn't shown SS of what he did in the NV CP. And he's the only guy.

Exactly.

People posting single card results as proof one way or the other are not reproducing the original situation.

Gregster stated exactly what he did. To refute you have to exactly reproduce and either confirm or reject his results.

Stating that I have a Titan X and don't get his results when I do XYZ, proves nothing, and the amazing part is that some posters don't even realize this.

Don't move the goalposts. This applies to the posters who now suddenly claim it's all about only TitanX and when moving from an AMD GPU while using DDU.

That isn't how this meme was sold, and if you want any evidence of that, read the initial replies in this thread and the other threads, it was all "OMG NV shafts their users again! AMD IQ was always better, 10-bit desktop monitor OMG! I got data 10 years back yu gaiz!".

Well, what happened was that the whole case fell apart. It's true that the exact way to conduct the experiment hasn't been done, but notice how the case is just shrinking faster and faster as more and more people line up and debunk the whole "NV drivers are artificially crippling IQ for benchmark wins!" meme which is falling apart rapidly.

It may be true that there are issues if you move from an AMD card to an NV card and that it may be isolated with TitanX owners, but we're talking a very, very small group of people and not an overall rule/phenomenom, which is, again, how this whole meme was presented at the outset and pushed for by a lot of pro-AMD folks who have had to repeatedly walk back time and again as more and more data has come through.

So while there may be an issue for TitanX owners switching from AMD GPUs and using DDU, there isn't an overall issue at all and the whole "scandal" has been properly dealt with.

(And anyone who keeps shifting the goalposts and claim that it was about the TitanX only, and only using DDU and only from an AMD card, I say once again: look at the early replies in the thread and from OP, both at Anandtech and other sites. It wasn't that specific, it was "NV drivers are messing up stuff for benchmarks". That tinfoil hat story got destroyed incredibly fast. Make this a teachable moment for yourselves before you spew out generalized conspiracy theories that get wrecked within days).
 

godihatework

Member
Apr 4, 2005
96
17
71
As a FYI a poster in the ocuk forum has debunked this on a Titan as well. Default NVCP with BF4 in game settings at ultra shows no variance from the Fury X.

The original poster appears to be walking back his claims.
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
1,438
67
91
"cheating" this way would be too obvious.

ways that would make more sense

subtle color/pixel changes
adding code to gameworks that they can "optimize" around that runs on any hardware not theirs (possibly what happened with kepler - they forgot kepler was theirs).

These companies can do tons of things in their drivers and nobody would know.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
I can say that on my nvidia cards, I've noticed that the various quality settings in nvidia control panel can cause unwanted aliasing/blur on distant textures. I just leave everything set to high quality and turn off optimizations now and it looks fine.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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There is a bug with NV CP for some (defaulting to 8x AF for some strange reason):

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28271009&postcount=361

But there is also another factor, settings in CP changes need a restart of the game for it to be applied:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28271368&postcount=366

So ultimately if you are affected with the CP bug (blurry textures or poor filtering), just force it on x16 and HQ. @Jacky60 said he initially had issues with his 980Ti SLI giving crap images but after playing with the NVCP settings, it was fine.
 

Osjur

Member
Sep 21, 2013
92
19
81
Yes and anandtech Nvidia users has provided the prof there is no problem.There are 2 things to be of sure that whether his PC has problems or something is wrong with his titan X.

I posted those pics from UCUK to [H] and I posted a pic to this thread from that same place with my Fury X just to make a comparison with couple of guys 980Ti pics. There was no difference whatsoever.

I'll say it again, Greg has a problem with his PC or something goes bonkers with drivers when you chance from one brand to another.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
There is a bug with NV CP for some (defaulting to 8x AF for some strange reason):

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28271009&postcount=361

But there is also another factor, settings in CP changes need a restart of the game for it to be applied:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28271368&postcount=366

So ultimately if you are affected with the CP bug (blurry textures or poor filtering), just force it on x16 and HQ. @Jacky60 said he initially had issues with his 980Ti SLI giving crap images but after playing with the NVCP settings, it was fine.

What do they mean by "restart the game?" I'd assume people change their settings outside of game, correct?
 

godihatework

Member
Apr 4, 2005
96
17
71
There is a bug with NV CP for some (defaulting to 8x AF for some strange reason):

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28271009&postcount=361

But there is also another factor, settings in CP changes need a restart of the game for it to be applied:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28271368&postcount=366

So ultimately if you are affected with the CP bug (blurry textures or poor filtering), just force it on x16 and HQ. @Jacky60 said he initially had issues with his 980Ti SLI giving crap images but after playing with the NVCP settings, it was fine.

yeah - that second example - that's AMD CCC

and the first example? well, way to ignore this post:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=28271130&postcount=365
 

godihatework

Member
Apr 4, 2005
96
17
71
It is a bug because it shouldn't be defaulting to 8x. The guy had to remove all drivers and do a clean reinstall to fix it. That is by definition a bug.

and it's by definition irrelevant to this issue.

what about the second component of your post - where you implied that the CCC issue was a NVCP issue? I would give the benefit under normal circumstances, but you seem determined to not let this non-issue die.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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If by irrelevant you mean a nasty bug that gives you crap IQ unless you remove all driver traces & a clean reinstall... yeah no.

You guys are saying its Greg's PC that's the problem. Other guys including our AT member Jacky60 says no. It's a driver bug that needs manual settings to get good IQ.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Driver cleaner and programs like it have been around since forever. This is nothing new. Going from AMD to Nvidia or Nvidia to AMD should always prompt use of one of these cleaners.
So, is this thread done now? Has the meme been thoroughly thrashed? Or are there still a few straphangers?
 

desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
1,645
0
0
If by irrelevant you mean a nasty bug that gives you crap IQ unless you remove all driver traces & a clean reinstall... yeah no.

You guys are saying its Greg's PC that's the problem. Other guys including our AT member Jacky60 says no. It's a driver bug that needs manual settings to get good IQ.
Totally no because i have both AMD and Nvidia GPUs and if i switch to from nvidia to AMD or AMD to nvidia than only problem will be IQ will be totally washout(blur).
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
Driver cleaner and programs like it have been around since forever. This is nothing new. Going from AMD to Nvidia or Nvidia to AMD should always prompt use of one of these cleaners.
So, is this thread done now? Has the meme been thoroughly thrashed? Or are there still a few straphangers?

Why would you want the thread/topic to die off /sarc? It hasn't even been verified if an issue exists.

I'll wait for a reputable person or reviewer with both to test it by switching out their gpu. It's not just about the single poster, there are several people who have experienced a difference, it's certainly enough to desire further clarification for the brand agnostic buyer.
 

desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
1,645
0
0
Why would you want the thread/topic to die off /sarc? It hasn't even been verified if an issue exists.

I'll wait for a reputable person or reviewer with both to test it by switching out their gpu. It's not just about the single poster, there are several people who have experienced a difference, it's certainly enough to desire further clarification for the brand agnostic buyer.

Did you look at the the previous pages?

Even Greg said that issues are from his side so now he lying?

Greg is a reasonable user to you?
 

Tapoer

Member
May 10, 2015
64
3
36
Gregster is not the only one that had lower IQ switching from AMD to Nvidia.
Project Cars also had higher IQ on the Fury, was not just BF4. His TX is also OC over 1.3GHz, that accounts for a much higher performance in BF4.

Jacky60 and other users noticed a lower IQ too:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2437903
Some from [H] also noticed from personal experience.

desprado doesn't have this problem, so it doesn't happen to all, might be only with recent Nvidia drivers or a specific version of DDU, or a bad use of DDU (no safe mode).

We cannot cherry pick examples, we have to see all that there is and make a conclusion, the more the better.

Now it would be good to people here to put emotion at a side and be more rational about it.
Why they want this this thread closed? is this thread hurting them?
We don't know for sure how to replicate this bug, but we know that it exists, unless you guys believe everyone is lying...
 
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