AMD Phenom X4 9950 Questions

[YueHong]

I am planning to build a new AMD Phenom based system soon. However, here I have some questions need to solve of before I build my new system.

1. Is there any problem with C&Q features on Phenom? As an review from anandtech website stats that some performance will lost with C&Q turn on. You may read it here: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...howdoc.aspx?i=3344&p=4. Is this true?

2. The reason I choose AMD over Intel right now is with the hope that this system will be able to upgrade to AMD's next generation processor (AM3) without the need to change motherboard. Therefore, motherboard is really important for my this build. What branded and model of motherboard do you recommended? Last time, I heard that many AM2 motherboard have trouble to support AM2+ processor (I don't want this to happen with me when I try to upgrade to AM3 processor in the future). So, which branded AM2 motherboard that is the very first support AM2+ processor?

3. I heard some rumors that AMD will release an octa-core processor by simply merge two quad processor together at the end of this year. Is this true? If so, it will be a great value and reason for me to choose AMD over Intel.

Thanks.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: YueHong
I am planning to build a new AMD Phenom based system soon. However, here I have some questions need to solve of before I build my new system.

1. Is there any problem with C&Q features on Phenom? As an review from anandtech website stats that some performance will lost with C&Q turn on. You may read it here: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...howdoc.aspx?i=3344&p=4. Is this true?

2. The reason I choose AMD over Intel right now is with the hope that this system will be able to upgrade to AMD's next generation processor (AM3) without the need to change motherboard. Therefore, motherboard is really important for my this build. What branded and model of motherboard do you recommended? Last time, I heard that many AM2 motherboard have trouble to support AM2+ processor (I don't want this to happen with me when I try to upgrade to AM3 processor in the future). So, which branded AM2 motherboard that is the very first support AM2+ processor?

3. I heard some rumors that AMD will release an octa-core processor by simply merge two quad processor together at the end of this year. Is this true? If so, it will be a great value and reason for me to choose AMD over Intel.

Thanks.

I don't really have any answers to your questions but will comment ...

In the next few weeks a new refresh of AMD chipsets will hit the market. The primary improvement is the south bridge 750 which is said to improve timing and performance, and provide additional headroom for Phenom OCs. You may want to investigate the new motherboards as you consider your purchase.

Any motherboard support will come from the OEM. No one can guarantee support for a future product - all AMD can do is allow for backward compatibility and it is up to the mobo makers to support it with updated BIOSs. Your mileage will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and past support and dependability helps but is no guarantee for the future. That's just the way business is these days ...

I have a MSI 790fx and am quite a happy customer. I was running an OEM X2 5400+ at 3.2GHz with an old Opty copper heatpipe cooler (with which the Phenom ships). I caught the Phenom Phever last week when The Egg had Phenom 9600 black editions on sale for $135. I've been pounding on that 9600be for the last three days. I've been quite imaginative in my torture

So far I'm running 2.7GHz with the stock cooler. I could boot into Windows at 2.8GHz but could not stress at stock. It is my understanding that Phenoms don't like a lot of voltage. I bumped the voltage to 1.28v this AM to continue my torture. I'm running Prime and the AMD stability test at the same time. With the case closed temps were 43c at load. With the case open and a floor fan blowing on it load temps are 29c. (I'm using HWmonitor and before I get too carried away I want to verify the temp accuracy.)

I have C&Q enabled. I have not encountered any problems as of yet. The rumahs on the internets claim that leaving C&Q enabled is best when overclocking. I'm using the original MSI 790fx BIOS and have AOD set to red (so no TLB fix).

I bought the Phenom because I have around 2 Tb of HD content to convert. If you have software that will run 8 parallel threads across an octo-core I'd say an AMD 'double cheeseburger' would be good for you. I don't know a great deal about it.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: YueHong
2. The reason I choose AMD over Intel right now is with the hope that this system will be able to upgrade to AMD's next generation processor (AM3) without the need to change motherboard.

It seems wasteful to do something like this, when it's very likely that a 45nm Intel quad-core available today will still have better performance.

3. I heard some rumors that AMD will release an octa-core processor by simply merge two quad processor together at the end of this year. Is this true? If so, it will be a great value and reason for me to choose AMD over Intel.

The die size of Shanghai with 6ML L3 cache is about 240mm^2, which makes it nearly impossible to physically fit two of them in a package that's compatible with AMD's current sockets.

 

[YueHong]

Thanks a lot for your reply, heyheybooboo.

As for CnQ, can you please do some testing to see the performance with it enabled and disabled? Because as the review from anandtech said: "Photoshop CS3 render times in 58.7s with CnQ enabled, 35.2s with CnQ disabled". I don't know how true is it. If it is true that's mean there is some problem with CnQ.

As for motherboard upgrade support, I do know that it will come from the OEM. Can you please give me the example of OEM with most AM2 motherboard that is support Phonem? Then, I think buying motherboard from those OEM will be safer.

 

[myocardia]

I would definitely recommend you not buy a Phenom 9550. They're about the worst deal out there at the moment, since they cost $175, and are only 2.2 Ghz. Add to that the fact that they have a locked multiplier, in case you want to overclock either now, or in the future, and I can't think of any CPU I would recommend less than the 9550. Were you aware that the 9850 Black Edition (what AMD now calls their FX-type processors that are fast, and have unlocked multipliers) is only $205 now at newegg, with the same free shipping? It's 2.5 Ghz per core, and most of them seem to be hitting 3 Ghz without too much problem, because of the unlocked multi. That's definitely what I would recommend.

As far as motherboards, I'd recommend you buy a 790FX board (790FX is the chipset) if you want to buy now. Or, you could wait a few weeks until the new boards are released, like heyheybooboo suggested. Whatever you do, make sure you buy an AM2+ board, not one of the few AM2 boards that support Phenoms. Oh, and Asus is always the company that supports using new processors on their older boards, if possible. They're a bit more expensive than their competition, though, and sometimes by quite a bit.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: YueHong
3. I heard some rumors that AMD will release an octa-core processor by simply merge two quad processor together at the end of this year. Is this true? If so, it will be a great value and reason for me to choose AMD over Intel.

The die size of Shanghai with 6ML L3 cache is about 240mm^2, which makes it nearly impossible to physically fit two of them in a package that's compatible with AMD's current sockets.

I agree it seems unlikely that AMD would release a 12-core MCM Shanghai to the desktop, but if they did then it would most likely entail a new socket to accomodate the sheer dimensions of the IHS.

However of bigger consideration would be the "TDP per socket". If a quad-core Shanghai at 3GHz has a TDP of 95W then just imagine tripling that TDP for the same socket.

The clocks would need to be drastically reduced just to make the thermals manageable. A 1.8GHz 12-core SKU with a TDP of 150-180W might still be viable in the quad-socket server market for $8k/socket but the desktop would never absorb such a SKU.

Intel has such a commanding lead here (threads per socket with reasonable TDP per socket) with Yorkfield and Nehalem that it just makes you wonder how much longer AMD is really going to keep trying to compete. Right now nothing is paying the bills for 45nm production ramp, let alone 32nm.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: YueHong
3. I heard some rumors that AMD will release an octa-core processor by simply merge two quad processor together at the end of this year. Is this true? If so, it will be a great value and reason for me to choose AMD over Intel.

The die size of Shanghai with 6ML L3 cache is about 240mm^2, which makes it nearly impossible to physically fit two of them in a package that's compatible with AMD's current sockets.

I agree it seems unlikely that AMD would release a 12-core MCM Shanghai to the desktop, but if they did then it would most likely entail a new socket to accomodate the sheer dimensions of the IHS.

However of bigger consideration would be the "TDP per socket". If a quad-core Shanghai at 3GHz has a TDP of 95W then just imagine tripling that TDP for the same socket.

The clocks would need to be drastically reduced just to make the thermals manageable. A 1.8GHz 12-core SKU with a TDP of 150-180W might still be viable in the quad-socket server market for $8k/socket but the desktop would never absorb such a SKU.

Intel has such a commanding lead here (threads per socket with reasonable TDP per socket) with Yorkfield and Nehalem that it just makes you wonder how much longer AMD is really going to keep trying to compete. Right now nothing is paying the bills for 45nm production ramp, let alone 32nm.

Someone already previewed Socket G34 I believe, AMD's next socket that will be coming out with Magnys Cours. The link was from dailytech maybe?

 

[iBPJohn]

Originally posted by: myocardia
I would definitely recommend you not buy a Phenom 9550. They're about the worst deal out there at the moment, since they cost $175, and are only 2.2 Ghz. Add to that the fact that they have a locked multiplier, in case you want to overclock either now, or in the future, and I can't think of any CPU I would recommend less than the 9550. Were you aware that the 9850 Black Edition (what AMD now calls their FX-type processors that are fast, and have unlocked multipliers) is only $205 now at newegg, with the same free shipping? It's 2.5 Ghz per core, and most of them seem to be hitting 3 Ghz without too much problem, because of the unlocked multi. That's definitely what I would recommend.

LoL, he is asking about the 9950, not the 9550, which is the successor to the 9850 and runs at 2.6ghz

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Someone already previewed Socket G34 I believe, AMD's next socket that will be coming out with Magnys Cours. The link was from dailytech maybe?

http://www.dailytech.com/Hello...t+G34/article12400.htm

Timeframe is stated as "early 2010". I won't hold my breath then as AMD is certainly going to undergo some serious revisions to get their cashflow issue back on track plus whatever else Dirk feels needs to be done in the meantime. Early 2010 means 2 yrs from now, consider how much has changed on AMD's roadmaps since 2006 and now.

Regardless the timeline still does nothing to eliminate the issues of TDP for a 45nm 12-core Shanghai chip sitting in one socket even if the economics of fielding a 2x250mm^2 die were somehow profitable.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: YueHong
Thanks a lot for your reply, heyheybooboo.

As for CnQ, can you please do some testing to see the performance with it enabled and disabled? Because as the review from anandtech said: "Photoshop CS3 render times in 58.7s with CnQ enabled, 35.2s with CnQ disabled". I don't know how true is it. If it is true that's mean there is some problem with CnQ.

As for motherboard upgrade support, I do know that it will come from the OEM. Can you please give me the example of OEM with most AM2 motherboard that is support Phonem? Then, I think buying motherboard from those OEM will be safer.

Give me a day or so. I've got some Simpsons episodes I can transcode in Premiere. I don't have PS CS3 so I can't help yah there.

I would suggest waiting for the new sb750 mobos to come out in a week or so. If anything it may drop the price of the current boards a little. Of the current AMD 7xx series chipset motherboards all support the Phenoms. You will need to verify support for the 9950BE, however.

The MSI 790FX supports the 9950BE as does the Gigabyte 790x & 790FX-DQ6. I believe Asus has several mobos that support it, too.

 

[eagle101]

Series: Phenom X4
Hyper Transports: 4000MHz
L1 Cache: 4 x 128KB
L2 Cache: 4 x 512KB
L3 Cache: 2MB $179.


Series: Phenom X4
Hyper Transports: 4000MHz
L2 Cache: 4 x 512KB
L3 Cache: 2MB $289.

just wondering the $289. phenom should react faster and carry more imformation this is my 1st quadcore.........i plan cooling with my vaporchill and my board ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe AMD 790FX AM2+
thanks for the help

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: eagle101
just wondering the $289. phenom should react faster and carry more imformation this is my 1st quadcore.........i plan cooling with my vaporchill and my board ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe AMD 790FX AM2+
thanks for the help

Not sure if the latest Phenoms have issues with sub-zero cooling but do be aware that there were numerous reportings on the XS forums that Phenom "cold-bugs" with simple vaporphase cooling temperatures and that it needs to be kept >0C to prevent cold-bugging.

I have a vaporphase rig but have never tested Phenom, so I cannot verify this concern but I did file it away as a potential issue for myself were I to upgrade. You may want to investigate just to confirm or deny this as a possible issue for yourself ahead of trying it out.