I can finally make this thread.
Phoenix is indeed RDNA3. My advice to everyone: treat the old APU rumours as being out of date.
Phoenix is indeed RDNA3. My advice to everyone: treat the old APU rumours as being out of date.
Picasso should be still in production for some time as well. After all it's part of Tesla's entertainment system only since last year, which I don't think will change quickly.To my knowledge, Dali hasn't gone out of production yet. AMD will likely be producing them for a while longer for at least secondary markets which will likely see them get renamed to tge new standard as well. Mendocino will be more expensive per unit than Dali for a long time, so there will be market space for it.
I was previously suggested that Zen 3 and Zen 3+ will be designated 7030 and 7035 respectively. I do hope that to be the case, with no randomness to it.The Barcelo/Rembrandt Zen3/Zen3+ thing is doing my head in tho.
Phoenix Point does use "AMD chiplet technology" so a N6 chiplet is certainly a possibility. Though there is still no clear info to what extend it's chiplet based, a separate RDNA3 chiplet would point to a structure akin to Intel's Meteor Lake which would be quite the surprise.Bit surprised everyone stopped talking about the RDNA3-side of Phoenix here tho. Last I heard it may be based on N33's ("6nm") RDNA3 implementation (more frugal than N32/31), but on "4nm"? Or is it chiplet and "6nm"?
If Phoenix is using CoWoS or whatever fancy name it goes under now like N31 is using then I see little point in not moving the GPU to its own die, active power should be minimal but the benefits of moving the GPU chiplet to a different node with denser libraries that the CPU portion can't use should be enormous.
Yes, amazing figures. But lest we not forget that the GCD has next to none IO (EFB IO is pretty dense) and almost no SRAM. Both heavily favours density and will not be applicable for a monolithic APU.View attachment 70476
Holy Mackerel, density in N31 GCD based on N5 is around 132 MTr/mm2, just about the same as an older gen iPhone SoC, even higher than AD102 on N4.
If this is what AMD is going for in Phoenix, they can fit 18 Billion transistors in less than 140 mm2. ( 6000 series@13.1 Billion XTor and 5000 series@10.7 Billion XTor)
Even a more conservative 120 MTr/mm2 would make an 18 Billion transistor chip come in at 150 mm2.
Not even considering if they might gain additional density from N4 migration too.
Bean counters must be twiddling their thumbs now waiting for the numbers to come in.
View attachment 70476
Holy Mackerel, density in N31 GCD based on N5 is around 132 MTr/mm2, just about the same as an older gen iPhone SoC, even higher than AD102 on N4.
If this is what AMD is going for in Phoenix, they can fit 18 Billion transistors in less than 140 mm2. ( 6000 series@13.1 Billion XTor and 5000 series@10.7 Billion XTor)
Even a more conservative 120 MTr/mm2 would make an 18 Billion transistor chip come in at 150 mm2.
Not even considering if they might gain additional density from N4 migration too.
Bean counters must be twiddling their thumbs now waiting for the numbers to come in.
PHX is on N4P(?) process, while N31 is on N5, so PHX could still get higher density.View attachment 70476
Holy Mackerel, density in N31 GCD based on N5 is around 132 MTr/mm2, just about the same as an older gen iPhone SoC, even higher than AD102 on N4.
If this is what AMD is going for in Phoenix, they can fit 18 Billion transistors in less than 140 mm2. ( 6000 series@13.1 Billion XTor and 5000 series@10.7 Billion XTor)
Even a more conservative 120 MTr/mm2 would make an 18 Billion transistor chip come in at 150 mm2.
Not even considering if they might gain additional density from N4 migration too.
Bean counters must be twiddling their thumbs now waiting for the numbers to come in.
PHX is on N4P(?) process, while N31 is on N5, so PHX could still get higher density.
But if the numbers you provided are correct, PHX could have over 20 bln xTors.
Nope. As @DisEnchantment provided data for it before, Phoenix is similar to N33, which means opportunistic dual Issue.After RX7000 event, I have better understanding of upcoming Phoenix Point APU:
- RDNA3 change the design of CU with SP supporting dual issue instructions. So rumors of 1536 SP is actually 768 SP with dual issues. Go check Anandtech to know details. We will expect 20% performance improvement of 6800H. FPS might improve further if AMD updates the scheduler but don't expect miracle. The performance might be similar to half of Navi 33 7600M with 1536(?) SP.
- If you are into gamings, PP notebooks might not be good choice anymore. AMD targets PP notebook as elite ultra notebook with TDP of 28W. I am not sure there is going to have 45W version...
- Dragon Range CPU essentially notebook version of Ryzen 7000 which would pair with Navi 32 and 33 GPU. If 6 core Ryzen CPU + 7600M GPU would be selling for USD1000 then AMD has winning hand
Nope. PHX is monolithic design for CPU and iGPU.Isn't the IGP likely to be on N6 though?
Looking at how AMD designs their GPUs(high clocked) I don't think that is required.I have a feeling that, for a fair chunk of time going forward, that it's going to make more sense for the iGPU to be on a density optimized die, the cpu to be on a performance optimized die, and the I/O on an efficiency optimized trailing node.
Since we are guessing Dragon Range is just Raphael used in mobile form factors the regular Zen 4 thread should fit, and there it was mentioned by @deasd before:A Dragon Range 12 core SKU (7845HX) just leaked in that AOTS meme database. But I'm not even sure which is the proper thread for it or if there is one lol
Yeah that's were I saw it first, before the videlcardz article on it... But no one reacted to itSince we are guessing Dragon Range is just Raphael used in mobile form factors the regular Zen 4 thread should fit, and there it was mentioned by @deasd before:
Page 435 - Discussion - Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)
Page 435 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.forums.anandtech.com
Personally I hope all designs using dGPUs will build on Dragon, with Phoenix mostly left to its iGPU. I also expect both to be announced at CES, though I'd be surprised Phoenix to see any relevant availability in the market before Dragon.I wonder what we'll see in new laptop designs on the market, Dragon or Phoenix. I reckon they're both announced at CES.