AMD Polaris Thread: Radeon RX 480, RX 470 & RX 460 launching June 29th

[RussianSensation]

You must not be in the US, right? No offense, but in the US, I dont think Fiesta contributes very much to Ford's profits *or* brand loyalty.

Back on topic, if the 480 delivers the performance/price that is anticipated, it is an interesting question as to whether they are pursuing the right strategy with the very aggressive pricing, or if they are simply losing revenue and remaining the "bargain brand". No argument that it is good for consumers however.

That's one way to look at it but that's not how I look at it as a consumer.

AMD
Reference HD7850 $249 -> RX 480 successor $229

NV
Reference GTX670 $399 / GTX970 $329 -> GTX 1070 successor $449
Reference GTX680 $499 / GTX980 $549 -> GTX 1080 successor $699

AMD is simply replacing a predecessor at a slightly lower price, but it's the competition that's jacking up prices. You cannot look at 1-side of the equation and imply that AMD is desperate to have aggressive pricing when their pricing is actually very much inline with HD7850's but it's the competition that seems to be increasing prices and padding its profits. NV increased prices 40% in just 4 years from GTX 680 to 1080. They are milking the mid-range die for all its worth before unleashing a 384-bit GDDR5X 3456-3840 CC GP102 next year -- the true flagship that was always intended to be the flagship Pascal card in this generation. OTOH, AMD never lied about what P10 was -- they even released a road-map clearly showing they are doing a Bottom-Up launch strategy this time. It seems HardOCP is one of the few sites that still doesn't get it.

---

Crypto mining blog reports early results for RX 480 under Windows:

"480 - 24MH/s at 100W and with overclock 26-28MH/sec while using 120W:
http://cryptomining-*********/8008-possible-ethereum-hashrate-for-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-480/

At current rates, the payout will be in ~4 months. That means it's going to be possible to buy RX 480 CF for barely more $ than GTX 1070 and have both cards paid off before Vega or Big Pascal even show up. Gamers can have a free $240 GPU in 4-4.5 months -- amazing deal for mainstream/performance gamers. This is even better than Bitcoin days. :thumbsup:

 

[sm625]

I dont think Fiesta contributes very much to Ford's profits *or* brand loyalty.

A 2016 Fiesta doesnt go faster than a 2014 Shelby GT500. lol. So its not exactly a good analogy.

 

[IEC]

Not to mention, as a consumer I don't give a rat's rear end about profit margins or market segment. I care about value for the performance bracket I am seeking. Four more days until we can see if Polaris is a foul line double or if AMD hit it out of the park.

 

[Mopetar]

Why the obsession with Nvidia profits?

I only brought it up because another poster mentioned revenue which is pointless for AMD because they as a company need profit. It doesn't matter if they made $10 billion in revenue this next quarter if their expenses are $10.5 billion.

doesnt seem like sound math...simple math with alot of factors involved, that sir is cognitive dissonance.

No, it means that there are a lot of factors that go into it that I don't have exact data for, so rather than bothering to include them all I just assume that some go in favor of NV and others in favor of AMD, but they're likely to average out so we can avoid them and focus on die size and chip price to make a comparison.

One could even argue that those factors are more in favor of NV since we know some of their financials compared to AMD. Given that they're making money hand over fist, it's not hard to speculate that some of that comes from lower costs as well as larger margins.

Also, that's not cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is when you try to hold two contradictory beliefs at the same time.

GFXBench - Radeon RX 480 vs Radeon R9 390/390X

Manhattan 3.1 Offscreen (Windows OpenGL)

Radeon RX 480: 225.7 FPS

Radeon R9 390:
- Median Score: 175.7 FPS
- Top Score: 260.3 FPS

Radeon R9 390X:
- Median Score: 215.7 FPS
- Top Score: 256.4 FPS

T-Rex Compute/Graphics (Windows OpenCL)

Radeon RX 480: 10.611 Frames/s

Radeon R9 390:
- Median Score: 11.034 Frames/s
- Top Score: 12.91 Frames/s

Radeon R9 390X:
- Median Score: 10.947 Frames/s
- Top Score: 11.632 Frames/s

Seems like a reasonable result based on what we know about Polaris. It does have a similar TFLOPs number to the 390X so we should see similar performance in a lot of cases. It might not have as much memory bandwidth, but the memory compression technology should account for a good chunk of the difference.

 

[Yakk]

That's one way to look at it but that's not how I look at it as a consumer.

AMD
Reference HD7850 $249 -> RX 480 successor $229

NV
Reference GTX670 $399 / GTX970 $329 -> GTX 1070 successor $449
Reference GTX680 $499 / GTX980 $549 -> GTX 1080 successor $699

AMD is simply replacing a predecessor at a slightly lower price, but it's the competition that's jacking up prices. You cannot look at 1-side of the equation and imply that AMD is desperate to have aggressive pricing when their pricing is actually very much inline with HD7850's but it's the competition that seems to be increasing prices and padding its profits. NV increased prices 40% in just 4 years from GTX 680 to 1080. They are milking the mid-range die for all its worth before unleashing a 384-bit GDDR5X 3456-3840 CC GP102 next year -- the true flagship that was always intended to be the flagship Pascal card in this generation. OTOH, AMD never lied about what P10 was -- they even released a road-map clearly showing they are doing a Bottom-Up launch strategy this time. It seems HardOCP is one of the few sites that still doesn't want to get it.

---

Crypto mining blog reports early results for RX 480 under Windows:

"480 - 24MH/s at 100W and with overclock 26-28MH/sec while using 120W:
http://cryptomining-*********/8008-possible-ethereum-hashrate-for-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-480/

At current rates, the payout will be in ~4 months. That means it's going to be possible to buy RX 480 CF for barely more $ than GTX 1070 and have both cards paid off before Vega or Big Pascal even show up. Gamers can have a free $240 GPU in 4-4.5 months -- amazing deal for mainstream/performance gamers. This is even better than Bitcoin days. :thumbsup:

Hmm... Going to do a few more calcs to confirm, but that just about sealed the deal for 2x or 3x CF 480x cards instead of just one for me.

(oh and fixed that hard reference there... :sneaky

 

[Maverick177]

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=266976&postcount=2160

 

[crisium]

That's one way to look at it but that's not how I look at it as a consumer.

AMD
Reference HD7850 $249 -> RX 480 successor $229

NV
Reference GTX670 $399 / GTX970 $329 -> GTX 1070 successor $449
Reference GTX680 $499 / GTX980 $549 -> GTX 1080 successor $699

This is a good point. If 480 does turn out to be close to 390X performance then 480:1080 will be very close to what 7850:680 was in mid-2012. While I can lament that ideally 480 should have 7870:680 relative performance since it is a full chip, it makes your point well about prices.

 

[sontin]

AMD's prices are a result of nVidia's announced AIB price. A GTX1070 will be so much better that there wasnt any room left for AMD for a product over $250.

 

[crisium]

AMD's prices are a result of nVidia's announced AIB price. A GTX1070 will be so much better that there wasnt any room left for AMD for a product over $250.

I think the 1070 is only presenting a minor ceiling on the price of the 480. 7850 launched before GTX 600 series afterall, and was only $20 higher. If AMD were first I could see 480 8GB at $250 MSRP, but not any higher. They still want low prices to spur consumer interest and they still want it too look like a huge price-to-performance boost compared to a $330 390/970. They can't do either of those things if reference MSRP is above $250.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

AMD's prices are a result of nVidia's announced AIB price. A GTX1070 will be so much better that there wasnt any room left for AMD for a product over $250.

Keep telling yourself that.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

AMD's prices are a result of nVidia's announced AIB price. A GTX1070 will be so much better that there wasnt any room left for AMD for a product over $250.

A theoretical $299 480 is still considerably cheaper than any 1070 you can actually buy. The $379 1070s are still a myth.

 

[sontin]

A theoretical $299 480 is still considerably cheaper than any 1070 you can actually buy. The $379 1070s are still a myth.

You can buy a $399 GTX1070 which will be faster than 33%.

 

[Thala]

You can buy a $399 GTX1070 which will be faster than 33%.

Sounds like the perfect deal, 40% more performance for 100% higher price! And thats already assuming the 40% more performance holds for DX12 as well...which is rather unlikely.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

You can buy a $399 GTX1070 which will be faster than 33%.

I don't think it's a $100 better card, to be honest. And it's definitely not a $200 better card unless you absolutely need it.

Sidebar: I sat and refreshed that page 100 times earlier today waiting for it to go out of stock so I'd stop being tempted to buy it. I am very proud of myself.

 

[sze5003]

I don't think it's a $100 better card, to be honest. And it's definitely not a $200 better card unless you absolutely need it.

Sidebar: I sat and refreshed that page 100 times earlier today waiting for it to go out of stock so I'd stop being tempted to buy it. I am very proud of myself.

I almost bought it last night the gigabyte model. I think I'll just go with the 8gb 480 for now.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

I almost bought it last night the gigabyte model. I think I'll just go with the 8gb 480 for now.

Same, probably. My hope is that we get to the 29th, the 480 benchmarks make it clear that performance is pretty much what we expected (good), $379 1070s finally start showing up as competition, and I have an actually difficult choice to make. Right now the 8gb 480 is a no brainer for me.

 

[sze5003]

Same, probably. My hope is that we get to the 29th, the 480 benchmarks make it clear that performance is pretty much what we expected (good), $379 1070s finally start showing up as competition, and I have an actually difficult choice to make. Right now the 8gb 480 is a no brainer for me.

The other thread about the results seem to state it's not as fast as a 390 or 390x which would be bad for my upgrade I suppose. But still wait till Wednesday to confirm. By then maybe more custom 1070 models show up. If it turns out not better than 390/390x then I guess my decision will have to be the 1070 even though the price is more than I'd like to pay.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

The other thread about the results seem to state it's not as fast as a 390 or 390x which would be bad for my upgrade I suppose. But still wait till Wednesday to confirm. By then maybe more custom 1070 models show up. If it turns out not better than 390/390x then I guess my decision will have to be the 1070 even though the price is more than I'd like to pay.

But then you've got other benchmarks claiming it rivals the R9 Fury/980, and who knows what to trust from all these leaks? That's why I think the smart move it to wait until Wednesday and everything becomes a known quantity.

 

[sze5003]

But then you've got other benchmarks claiming it rivals the R9 Fury/980, and who knows what to trust from all these leaks? That's why I think the smart move it to wait until Wednesday and everything becomes a known quantity.

Very true no point in going by these leaks really since we are just assuming and guessing. I wish they would at least give a time frame for aib models too.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

Very true no point in going by these leaks really since we are just assuming and guessing. I wish they would at least give a time frame for aib models too.

I wish they'd give us that info but I also don't care that much. With the 1070, Nvidia advertised a $379 price point, then everything at launch was $449. The 480 4GB was announced at $199 and it seems like the most we'll see is $10, maybe $20 over that (and obviously more for the 8GB). I'm fine with that for a launch premium. The AIB cards might have some better coolers, higher clocks, etc., but at least they aren't pulling the rug out from under us wrt pricing.

 

[Mopetar]

You can buy a $399 GTX1070 which will be faster than 33%.

If buy "buy" you mean be notified when more stock becomes available and hope I can manage to beat a small handful of other people trying to get in on it, then sure I can "buy" that 1070 for $399.

If I actually wanted to purchase one the cheapest I can get right at this minute is $429.99.

 

[sze5003]

I wish they'd give us that info but I also don't care that much. With the 1070, Nvidia advertised a $379 price point, then everything at launch was $449. The 480 4GB was announced at $199 and it seems like the most we'll see is $10, maybe $20 over that (and obviously more for the 8GB). I'm fine with that for a launch premium. The AIB cards might have some better coolers, higher clocks, etc., but at least they aren't pulling the rug out from under us wrt pricing.

Most prices I've seen around the net for the other models like xfx because of the backplate is like $249 and the other 8gb models go for $229 and up so it's not a big deal at all for $10-30 more if you want a different brand.

 

[Yakk]

I posted earlier about the Powercolor Devil 480 and mistook it for a possible Devil 13 Dual card. This seems like the single GPU Devil card, which is Powercolor's top end card. So by July 11th, we should have at least one of the highest end Polaris AIB cards.

http://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/40983-powercolor-teases-new-radeon-rx-480-devil-graphics-card

 

[linkgoron]

I posted earlier about the Powercolor Devil 480 and mistook it for a possible Devil 13 Dual card. This seems like the single GPU Devil card, which is Powercolor's top end card. So by July 11th, we should have at least one of the highest end Polaris AIB cards.

http://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/40983-powercolor-teases-new-radeon-rx-480-devil-graphics-card

Don't they know the difference between a Pentagram and a Star of David? lol

 

[JDG1980]

But then you've got other benchmarks claiming it rivals the R9 Fury/980, and who knows what to trust from all these leaks? That's why I think the smart move it to wait until Wednesday and everything becomes a known quantity.

Agreed. We won't know the actual results until then.

That said - from a consumer perspective, even if RX 480 only matches GTX 970 in DX11 gaming, it's still a good deal at the specified price points. But from a technical perspective, it would be a bit disappointing. We know RX 480 will have 2304 shaders at a default boost clock of 1266 MHz. That provides ~98.6% of the raw computing power (TFlops) of R9 390X (2816 shaders at 1050 MHz). With the cumulative architectural improvements between GCN 1.1 and Polaris, we should be seeing at least 10% greater real-world gaming performance than R9 390X, not less. This is why I still think there's a good chance that release day drivers will provide better performance than the leaks (mostly using current public drivers) indicate.