AMD Polaris Thread: Radeon RX 480, RX 470 & RX 460 launching June 29th

[poofyhairguy]

Yeah that is what I got from the 3DMark leak. Thanks guys, even if it isn't what I wanted to hear.

 

[BlitzWulf]

That slide is the baffling thing - if it doesn't draw something like 150w then why put it there in the big reveal presentation?! They must know what the TDP is like and if it was say 110, it'd look much better than 150.

Guess there were quite a few odd things about that presentation, so maybe they just missed it.

I asked Robert Hallock the same question essentially, he wouldn't answer me because of NDA though

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...s_image_quality_controversy/d3t1bhi?context=3

 

[Yakk]

What my uninformed self is gathering from all of this discussion and numbers, is that it will probably be a slight upgrade: slight performance, significant power, and not-yet disclosed % of upgrade for DX12.

It is looking like the big difference here is cost/performance and DX12, which NVidia seems to have screwed the pooch over for the next 2-3 years with their new architecture. Updated and optimized drivers .5-1 year out might just show that Polaris is a monster for DX12 at budget cost.

Just as per AMD cards all the way back to the original GCN 7970; I would expect the 480 to have a very good and long lifespan, especially with DX12, Vulkan, and VR.

I would say it will be a monster value card for its price segment. AMD seems to have created the mother of all value sweetspots.

 

[Mopetar]

waterblock baby and then weeeeeeeee

I don't know if it would be worth it for just a 480 unless you're a real hobbyist. If they released a version of the card that was top binned and guaranteed to clock well it might be worth it, but otherwise it seems like spending a lot of time and money and hoping the silicon lottery pays out.

Probably not (for their sake), but I don't think AMD picked this number for no reason, max power consumption for the 8GB model could be close.

In the context of their other numbers it makes sense. The information they released was incredibly vague. It's basically saying the 480 is at least 5 GFLOPs and no more than 150W. Since they won't ship for a while it doesn't make an sense to give the competition information that might help them in positioning the 460 an earlier than they have to.

So someone tell it to me straight- will the 8GB 480 be an upgrade over my 390x at 1080p? Because if not I might just buy the 4GB model for a secondary rig.

I'm guessing that it will be a side-grade for all effective purposes. I suspect it will probably be possible to get a better OC out of the 480, so that could give it enough of a boost to push it over the edge if it OCs well, but otherwise I can't see it being worth the money if you already have a 390X.

 

[flopper]

I don't know if it would be worth it for just a 480 unless you're a real hobbyist. If they released a version of the card that was top binned and guaranteed to clock well it might be worth it, but otherwise it seems like spending a lot of time and money and hoping the silicon lottery pays out.

Obviously you wait for the 2x6pin etc..card first

 

[poofyhairguy]

Frys has a $220 AR 390X today that is really tempting. Hmmm...is 390x Crossfire worth the power usage? Hmm...

 

[topmounter]

If they treat it like the maximum it can draw, I suppose it's just letting you know where the ceiling is at.

My guess is that the 480 will have plenty of headroom to play with, but the scaling won't be all that great and that the efficiency goes to hell when you start using all of that 150W.

<=150W vs. ~150W matters far more in the main-stream market where power supplies aren't typically as robust or spec'd w/ overhead.

 

[Coalscraper]

The rx480 (especially with that price tag) has more impact on gtx 1080 sales figures than it seems on first sight. Although the 1080 and the rx480 are in a completly different price segment, the price of the rx480 affects the price of used 980ti. Many enthusiasts buy the top range card every year and sell the "old" card a year later. Now this process has been stalled: 980ti with a price of 650-700$ a year ago can't be sold for 460$ (price * 0,67) when there is a rx480 avaiblable for half that price. So the 980ti sellers would have to lower to price of their "old" cards so much that the new 1080 is not 140$ (600 - 460) but much more. So much that some of them keep the old card.
What do you guys think about that?

 

[Magee_MC]

I ran across a post on Reddit where a person who works in the Fab says he believes that AMD will have 177,000 chips ready on release day. That should be enough for a solid launch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4n7u7f/availability_of_the_480_on_the_29th/d41x3ig

 

[IEC]

I ran across a post on Reddit where a person who works in the Fab says he believes that AMD will have 177,000 chips ready on release day. That should be enough for a solid launch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4n7u7f/availability_of_the_480_on_the_29th/d41x3ig

That's way too low. Let's hope it is more than that, or we'll have low stock/out of stock problems within the first week, and no price pressure on nVidia so those wanting more performance can get a better deal.

 

[LTC8K6]

I ran across a post on Reddit where a person who works in the Fab says he believes that AMD will have 177,000 chips ready on release day. That should be enough for a solid launch.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4n7u7f/availability_of_the_480_on_the_29th/d41x3ig

He retracted the claim for now, though.

I kind of wish I hadn't posted that because I couldn't remember the precise number and I could be way off. I'll follow up on that in the morning

 

[BlitzWulf]

That's way too low. Let's hope it is more than that, or we'll have low stock/out of stock problems within the first week, and no price pressure on nVidia so those wanting more performance can get a better deal.

Maybe thats just from one of the four fabs in the Samsung GloFlo agreement?

http://globalfoundries.com/docs/def...lobalfoundries-14nm-collaboration---final.pdf

http://www.globalfoundries.com/docs...ries-14nm-collaboration-pr-final.pdf?sfvrsn=0

&#8220;This unprecedented collaboration will result in a global capacity footprint for 14nm FinFET
technology that provides AMD with enhanced capabilities to bring our innovative IP into silicon
on leading-edge technologies,&#8221; said Lisa Su, senior vice president and general manager of
Global Business Units at AMD. &#8220;The work that GLOBALFOUNDRIES and Samsung are doing
together will help AMD deliver our next generation of groundbreaking products with new levels
of processing and graphics capabilities to devices ranging from low-power mobile devices, to
next-generation dense servers to high-performance embedded solutions.&#8221;

I'd guess if he's for real he works at the Saratoga fab as he talks about driving up to Montreal in one of his other post's.

He also mentions that Polaris 10 is 87$/chip
That would imply that margins on the $199 RX 480 wouldn't be phenomenal

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4mp1va/so_what_to_expect_from_amd_at_e3/d3ytrrn?context=3


Some other things....

 

[Armsdealer]

Frys has a $220 AR 390X today that is really tempting. Hmmm...is 390x Crossfire worth the power usage? Hmm...

Link? I'm tempted for sure...

 

[96Firebird]

Link? I'm tempted for sure...

http://slickdeals.net/f/8826439-fry...ard-220-after-20-rebate-free-store-pickup?v=1

Must be signed up for Fry's e-mails.

 

[Armsdealer]

http://slickdeals.net/f/8826439-fry...ard-220-after-20-rebate-free-store-pickup?v=1

Must be signed up for Fry's e-mails.

So that means I can't actually buy at that price unless I was already subscribed? I doubt p10 will be this good of a deal...

 

[crisium]

With rumours of $230 8GB RX 480, I'm not sure how you can say that.

Of course, maybe it'll be a flop and $250 and actually slower than 390X.

You take a chance either way on the subtleties of price and performance, but at least with the 480 you are certain it uses much fewer watts.

 

[sze5003]

I really wish we had benchmarks now. I can afford the 1070 but I'd like to compare. The value of the 480 seems great although it may not be a good choice for long term the way I keep my stuff.

 

[Armsdealer]

With rumours of $230 8GB RX 480, I'm not sure how you can say that.

Of course, maybe it'll be a flop and $250 and actually slower than 390X.

You take a chance either way on the subtleties of price and performance, but at least with the 480 you are certain it uses much fewer watts.

I think the data we're seeing from aots is pretty conclusive. Rx480 is between a 390/390x. The 3dmark benchmarks are probably overclocked. The only reason I see to wait is because rx480 will overclock higher. $220 is a good deal knowing you won't have to wait in case there are supply shortages etc (bird in hand is worth... Etc)

 

[Bacon1]

Remember if you are planning on getting a new monitor, you'll also save $100+ by going freesync over gsync. Nvidia is shooting themselves in the foot not supporting Adaptive-Sync.

 

[96Firebird]

So that means I can't actually buy at that price unless I was already subscribed? I doubt p10 will be this good of a deal...

Yes, deal is only for current subscribers. You can try finding someone who has a code that isn't going to use it, although I'm not sure if that will even worked since it might be linked to the e-mail address.

P10 is still up in the air.

 

[Leadbox]

I think the data we're seeing from aots is pretty conclusive. Rx480 is between a 390/390x. The 3dmark benchmarks are probably overclocked. The only reason I see to wait is because rx480 will overclock higher. $220 is a good deal knowing you won't have to wait in case there are supply shortages etc (bird in hand is worth... Etc)

This assumes they haven't adressed their DX11 bottlenecks or geometry throughput issues which I think is highly unlikely. Surely it's a little more than just a die shrink no?

 

[Mopetar]

That's way too low. Let's hope it is more than that, or we'll have low stock/out of stock problems within the first week, and no price pressure on nVidia so those wanting more performance can get a better deal.

Yeah, that's definitely not enough, but given that Apple has been confirmed to be using Polaris (probably mostly Polaris 11, but the iMac would probably use Polaris 10) and given that Nvidia doesn't have mobile Pascal ready yet, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of AMD's early stock is already spoken for so it could also be a case of there are more chips, but it's a more limited number that will be sold as discrete cards.

 

[Armsdealer]

This assumes they haven't adressed their DX11 bottlenecks or geometry throughput issues which I think is highly unlikely. Surely it's a little more than just a die shrink no?

I have no idea. What I do know is I am gpuless right now and undergoing severe VR withdrawal (bought and later returned gtx970 when my vive arrived). If I can't get my hands on rx480 on launch I'm going to lose it.

Also, I think frys has 15 days to return in case this is actually not a good deal and p10 positively surprises.

 

[RussianSensation]

Here is a dose of reality for you as well. Only 14W difference in actual games according to Hardware.info, easily justified by higher average clocks, which also bring slightly better performance than Founder's Edition.

Also from your Guru3D review:

Here is more reality for you since you seem to be grasping at straws using average power usage instead of peak. This forum always used R9 290's average/typical power usage of 214W for gaming and HD7970GHz's 209W, right, am I right?

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290/24.html

You seem to not understand that when when most people on this forum/online compared HD7970/Ghz, R9 290/X, 780Ti, 980/980Ti, wrt to power usage, we usually look at peak power usage, not average power usage. Some games like Total War Warhammer don't even max out the GPU to the extent Crysis 3 can.

After-market samples are showing that 1070 is a 180-190W card. Most consumers will continue buying into NV's marketing lies of 150W TDP. NV is purposely misleading the consumer. Ask the average Joe PC gamer on the street what TDP means and most of them will tell you Max Power Usage.

Next time get ready to defend your position with facts instead of twisting facts to fit your agenda. In order to be fair/objective and consistent to older generation of videocards spanning GTX200/Fermi/Kepler/Maxwell/GTX4000->RX 480 series, it makes no sense to claim that 1070 uses ~150W and ignore that it peaks at 160-186W.

You do realize that some games do not load the GPU to 99-100%, right? Therefore, those games are not reflective of GTX1070's true power usage.

So someone tell it to me straight- will the 8GB 480 be an upgrade over my 390x at 1080p? Because if not I might just buy the 4GB model for a secondary rig.

No, it won't be an upgrade. It also depends on what you define as a good upgrade, 20%, 30%, 50%, 70-100%? For 1080P 60Hz gaming, 390X is more than sufficient to keep gaming on for another 1-2 years. If you desire more consistent minimums towards 60 FPS range, GTX1070 is the card to get if you can find one for $380-400.

The rx480 (especially with that price tag) has more impact on gtx 1080 sales figures than it seems on first sight. Although the 1080 and the rx480 are in a completly different price segment, the price of the rx480 affects the price of used 980ti. Many enthusiasts buy the top range card every year and sell the "old" card a year later. Now this process has been stalled: 980ti with a price of 650-700$ a year ago can't be sold for 460$ (price * 0,67) when there is a rx480 avaiblable for half that price. So the 980ti sellers would have to lower to price of their "old" cards so much that the new 1080 is not 140$ (600 - 460) but much more. So much that some of them keep the old card.
What do you guys think about that?

No, not buying that. Here in Canada at least, slower used NV cards often sell for more than used/new faster AMD cards.

GTX1070 debuted at $619.99 CAD, or $484 USD before tax and $547 USD after tax. Customers cross-shopping a used 980Ti will consider new prices of GTX1070. A max overclocked 980Ti and 1070 OC are pretty close in performance. A used 980Ti will still cost considerably more than a new RX 480. I also don't think the types of customers who purchase GTX980Ti would care for RX480 even if it was 85% as fast since they don't cross-shop that level of cards. There was also a statistic by NV themselves that most of the $500+ GPU buyers are brand sticky -- i.e., they only buy NV regardless of what AMD has. That means even if there was an RX480X/485 card with 100% of the performance of the 980Ti for $299, used 980TI cards could still sell for $350. Many NV customers will not buy an AMD card period and there are a lot more of those types of sticky customers than AMD has. For that reason NV cards tend to have higher resale value even if objectively they are much worse than AMD's new/used cards at that time.

That's way too low. Let's hope it is more than that, or we'll have low stock/out of stock problems within the first week, and no price pressure on nVidia so those wanting more performance can get a better deal.

It is low, but compared to the joke paper launch of GP104, it's probably tens of times more cards. I agree with your insinuation though that AMD should have built up 2-3 million cards given the target market they are going after. Miners alone could soak up 50,000-100,000 cards easily.

 

[96Firebird]

After-market samples are showing that 1070 is a 180-190W card. Most consumers will continue buying into NV's marketing lies of 150W TDP. NV is purposely misleading the consumer. Ask the average Joe PC gamer on the street what TDP means and most of them will tell you Max Power Usage.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/R9_390X_Gaming/28.html

After-market samples are showing that 390X is a 340-370W card. Most consumers will continue buying into AMD's marketing lies of 275W TDP. AMD is purposely misleading the consumer. Ask the average Joe PC gamer on the street what TDP means and most of them will tell you Max Power Usage.

So you agree with the paragraph above?