AMD Polaris Thread: Radeon RX 480, RX 470 & RX 460 launching June 29th

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Armsdealer

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May 10, 2016
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SMP makes all the difference in that call if you ask me (you didnt, I know, rhetorical).
(cant really tell if 'SMP' is part of the DX12 spec though)

I can just as easily say that we don't know to what degree dx12 games will unleash full async capabilities of amd hardware.
For 450 USD, you get a 230 USD card today plus a 230 USD card next generation. Don't undervalue the optionality of having extra cash around to make a good decision when opportunity arises. These companies are constantly trying to produce products that are worth buying and to assume that there won't be another great one at a good price at some point in the next two years is silly.

I've never paid more than 300 USD for a gpu and I've never had sufficiently inferior gaming experiences vs the folks who do to justify the extra money. If smp is to take off, nvidia knows they need a large install base of smp enabled cards in order for developers to implement it. That means it has to be given to the consumer at a much lower price.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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I can just as easily say that we don't know to what degree dx12 games will unleash full async capabilities of amd hardware.

I think we'll start seeing more and more of it over time, but it's going to be another two years before we start seeing a lot of games that were designed with a DX12 first perspective.

Even AotS was just a game that exists so that a DX12 engine could be created. Not only is it going to take time for developers to start using those features, but it's going to take time for them to get good at utilizing DX12 and getting the most out of it.

It's good for for people who keep cards for a while, but for the kind of people here who typically upgrade every two years, you could probably get away with not caring about DX12 for another upgrade cycle.

I think that with AMD making chips for all of the consoles based on their newest tech, we'll start seeing ports that use these features a lot sooner than we would otherwise, but it will still take time.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
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First OpenCL if a walking dead, MS doesn't care about it, Apple doesn't care about it abs NVIDIA doesn't care about it. Not sure ably Google. Also pretty much no one uses AMD HW for DL. It's pretty much all running on NVIDIA that has been investing early in DL and has a full SDK which is the de facto standard in the industry.

Its impossible for a proprietary API to be a "standard" at all.
 

Armsdealer

Member
May 10, 2016
181
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I think we'll start seeing more and more of it over time, but it's going to be another two years before we start seeing a lot of games that were designed with a DX12 first perspective.

Even AotS was just a game that exists so that a DX12 engine could be created. Not only is it going to take time for developers to start using those features, but it's going to take time for them to get good at utilizing DX12 and getting the most out of it.

It's good for for people who keep cards for a while, but for the kind of people here who typically upgrade every two years, you could probably get away with not caring about DX12 for another upgrade cycle.

I think that with AMD making chips for all of the consoles based on their newest tech, we'll start seeing ports that use these features a lot sooner than we would otherwise, but it will still take time.

How do you know smp will see widespread support? We also don't have any real benchmarks for it other than the ones nvidia almost certainly pulled out of their ass
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
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You're still trying to compare AMD's not yet-released mainstream chip with their previously released generation(s) cut-down enthusiast chips.

This is ~half the cost for the same performance and less power usage compared to the top tier class. How does this not meet all of your demands?

Perhaps your irrational rant will be better placed when you have a cut-down Vega to compare to the 390X, you think?

I wouldn't be surprised if they top out their full Vega chip at $500 MSRP following this pricing. Maybe a "limited edition hyper enthusiast" version at 600-650 to stoke the passions of the " only top price matters!" crowd in the interest of trading blows with spurious nVidia marketing.

Imagine low-end Vega chips starting at 300-320 and topping out at $500.

While I overall agree with you. I think top Vega w/ HBM2 isn't gonna be cheap. More than $500, I think.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
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I think we'll start seeing more and more of it over time, but it's going to be another two years before we start seeing a lot of games that were designed with a DX12 first perspective.

Even AotS was just a game that exists so that a DX12 engine could be created. Not only is it going to take time for developers to start using those features, but it's going to take time for them to get good at utilizing DX12 and getting the most out of it.

It's good for for people who keep cards for a while, but for the kind of people here who typically upgrade every two years, you could probably get away with not caring about DX12 for another upgrade cycle.

I think that with AMD making chips for all of the consoles based on their newest tech, we'll start seeing ports that use these features a lot sooner than we would otherwise, but it will still take time.

Good point! Console ports are unlikely candidates for SMP?
 

Mikeduffy

Member
Jun 5, 2016
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How do you know smp will see widespread support? We also don't have any real benchmarks for it other than the ones nvidia almost certainly pulled out of their ass
How do we know that Polaris can't support SMP through a driver update?

IMO - if SMP was all it was cracked up to be, then we'd see it Pascal in the updated consoles. I mean, they are marketing the machines as being VR monsters, you'd think they would have this "killer feature".

At this point in time, SMP is a marketing gimmick until someone can show real performance advantages under Dx12/Vulkan against LiquidVR - remember Asynchronous Compute/Multi-Engine for Maxwell? Unmitigated disaster anyone?
 
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Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
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I am sorry but it looks like it is not me who does not know what is talking about.

P.S. Industry standards are ALWAYS open Standards. I have never seen a industry standard that is locked to one vendor.

Yes, like in the graphics and design industry, there is certainly not a single industry standard program called Photoshop controlled by one vendor. And that definitely doesn't apply to word processors and spreadsheet programs. There is certainly not a locked vendor controlled standard. I must be imagining .docx and .xlsx

If you mean to say you've never seen an open industry standard that isn't open, well, sure. Of course open standards conducted through open standards bodies like ISO or JEDEC are open, thats the definition.
 
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sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
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How do we know that Polaris can't support SMP through a driver update?

IMO - if SMP was all it was cracked up to be, then we'd see it Pascal in the updated consoles. I mean, they are marketing the machines as being VR monsters, you'd think they would have this "killer feature".

Sony and Microsoft are following the money or better the cheaper solution. They will go through raw performance. It is just cheaper for them.

At this point in time, SMP is a marketing gimmick until someone can show real performance advantages under Dx12/Vulkan against LiquidVR - remember Asynchronous Compute/Multi-Engine for Maxwell?

SMP has nothing to do with DX12 and Vulkan. It is a solution to a problem which was introduced by the headset. You can download nVidia's VR Works SDK and try it out.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,763
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Yes, like in the graphics and design industry, there is certainly not a single industry standard program called Photoshop controlled by one vendor. And that definitely doesn't apply to word processors and spreadsheet programs. There is certainly not a locked vendor controlled standard. I must be imagining .docx and .xlsx

If you mean to say you've never seen an open industry standard that isn't open, well, sure. Of course open standards conducted through open standards bodies like ISO or JEDEC are open, thats the definition.

Photoshop is not a standard. It is application. It can use either OpenCL or CUDA. OpenCL is standard for whole industry. CUDA is standard for only Nvidia hardware. Vulkan is industry standard. DirectX12 is industry standard. Is any proprietary software from Nvidia open, industry standard?
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
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Photoshop is not a standard. It is application. It can use either OpenCL or CUDA. OpenCL is standard for whole industry. CUDA is standard for only Nvidia hardware. Vulkan is industry standard. DirectX12 is industry standard. Is any proprietary software from Nvidia open, industry standard?

CUDA is proprietary to nvidia.

DX12 is proprietary to Microsoft.
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
615
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Hmm 128 bus on Polaris 11. So it will be a GTX 960 basically?

2304SP 256-bit Polaris 10 looks to be about the same or very slightly faster than GTX 980, which is 2048SP 256-bit.

So 1024SP 128-bit Polaris 10... should be about the same or a little slower than GTX 960, which is 1024SP 128-bit.

Based on current leak 480 performance and assuming no hidden bottlenecks...
 
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tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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Nice find, so 36 CUs confirmed for Polaris 10. Hopefully this puts the 40-48 CUs fairy tales to rest.


And reality sets in. At 28nm, AMD's mid-range pitcairn die was 75% the speed of Nvidia's performance GK104 die. Now it's going to be less than 65% and there is no longer a conspiracy theorists hope of RX 480 being cut down. I'm still in for one at $199 if Nvidia chooses not to compete in perf/$ but it's abundantly clear Nvidia is pulling further ahead at each new release.
 
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