AMD Polaris Thread: Radeon RX 480, RX 470 & RX 460 launching June 29th

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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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I find it hard to believe the XFX guy is talking about slapping a watercooler on the cut down version of Polaris 10. If P10 is really around R9 390 performance what an epic fail from AMD. I'm really hoping it's around Fury performance for $300, which could make it a compelling buy at roughly 15%-20% less performance than the 1070 for 20% less.
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
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Why would you attach a watercooler to a card with sub-150W TDP?

This one is easy to explain You're an AMD specific AIB and the top card they're giving you is x% off the 1070.

It's OK for AMD to abandon the mid-high end market for a bit as they want to tie down console deals, laptops etc, but an AIB really won't want to do that if they can possibly help it.

So you do a special edition, die pick the best over clockers and jam a water cooler on it and wildly over clock it to get the performance up a tier.

It probably isn't strictly rational behaviour in engineering terms, and will probably be a quirky/AMD fan specific buy, but given the raw material they're going to have to work with, what else can they do?
 

khon

Golden Member
Jun 8, 2010
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I don't get why people are complaining so much, if this card is 980 performance at lower power, lower price, and more features, how is that not a win ?

I would be buying one as soon as it is released, and many others will as well.
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
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A single 6-pin PCIE connector? I thought this card was supposed to be more power hungry than the 1080 or something
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
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Relative to performance perhaps If this thing was using more power than a 1080 AMD really would be in deep trouble!
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

Senior member
Mar 22, 2014
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But they still need a faster P10 to at least be within a stones throw away from the 1070.

No, they don't. Christ, it's a 480X. There's going to be a 490, 490X, Fury and Fury X above it and people still insist on matching it up to the wrong bracket. It's giving me fits.
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
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No, they don't. Christ, it's a 480X. There's going to be a 490, 490X, Fury and Fury X above it and people still insist on matching it up to the wrong bracket. It's giving me fits.

What historical parallel to draw the P10 to? I compare it to Pitcairn, which at launch was about 10% slower than a 660 Ti. Compare the die sizes of Pitcairn vs GK104 to P10 vs GP104 - virtually identical ratios. It's debatable if 1070 is cutdown less than the 660 Ti, so I'm gonna be very generous and give P10 15% instead of 10%.

This is the new Kepler vs GCN 1.0 - new cards after a major node shrink. Nvidia made great strides with Maxwell but appear to have not improved Pascal IPC. Will AMD still be stuck in 2012-2013? Or can they make similar gains to Nvidia from 2014 and "reset" where Kepler and GCN 1.0 were at launch (which is pre-GCN improvements - 7870 matched 660 Ti later on in the gen - again I am being generous in my expectations).

You can compare P10 to 380X and 1070 to 970 and be happy. But continuing the performance-per-mm, performance-per-FLOP, and performance-per-watt of Maxwell vs GCN 1.0-1.2 is unacceptable if they truly intend to compete again and not suffer at 20-25% marketshare.
 
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Kuiva maa

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May 1, 2014
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I don't get why people are complaining so much, if this card is 980 performance at lower power, lower price, and more features, how is that not a win ?

I would be buying one as soon as it is released, and many others will as well.

Because AMD already offers this in the shape of 290X/390Χ for years(bar the power consumption but that does not matter to the crowd that buys hawaii/fiji/GM200). I have a freesync 1440p/144hz monitor and I am waiting for a GPU stronger than Fury X, nothing less. If they offer such a SKU at this time and age,it had better not cost more than 200 or so.
 
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JDG1980

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Jul 18, 2013
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AMD Radeon RX 480 specifications leaked?





http://videocardz.com/60752/amd-radeon-rx-480-specifications-leaked

Positioned against Geforce GTX 970 / GTX 980. We can probably rule out 90% Geforce GTX 1080 performance at half the price/TDP predictions.

This slide bolsters my suspicions that AMD was caught off-guard by Nvidia's early release of the GP104 cards. I think they expected them to be released circa October, and maybe that was the original plan, but Nvidia pulled out all the stops to beat AMD to market.

5.5 TFlops of computing performance would equate to 2304 shaders at ~1200 MHz. We know that GCN on 28nm has optimal perf/watt near 800-900 MHz, so this would fit in well with the ~40% clock rate increases that FinFET has brought for most designs.

I don't consider this to be a disappointment in any way. By most accounts, Polaris 10 is about the same die size as Pitcairn, which topped out at just under 2.6 TFlops. If Polaris 10 has more than double the raw performance at the same die size, bus width, and power consumption, plus a bunch of new features, that's about the most we can reasonably expect for a full node shrink.

Let's not forget that GTX 980 does "only" 4.6 TFlops at stock. The reason it contended with Hawaii was because AMD cards of the 28nm generation were less effective at using all their resources in DX11 titles. If Polaris fixes this using some combination of hardware and/or software optimizations, and we see shader utilization on par with Maxwell, then we could be looking at GTX 980 + 20% performance from Polaris 10.
 

RoarTiger

Member
Mar 30, 2013
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No, they don't. Christ, it's a 480X. There's going to be a 490, 490X, Fury and Fury X above it and people still insist on matching it up to the wrong bracket. It's giving me fits.

Is that more or less frustrating than people who continue to call the RX 480 a 480X? Using a 1070 as a baseline for comparison makes sense because it is the only pascal card using GDDR5 that has been released, not because the 480 is intended to compete with it. How else can anyone guess what to expect from 1060 etc.
 

Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
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This slide bolsters my suspicions that AMD was caught off-guard by Nvidia's early release of the GP104 cards. I think they expected them to be released circa October, and maybe that was the original plan, but Nvidia pulled out all the stops to beat AMD to market.

5.5 TFlops of computing performance would equate to 2304 shaders at ~1200 MHz. We know that GCN on 28nm has optimal perf/watt near 800-900 MHz, so this would fit in well with the ~40% clock rate increases that FinFET has brought for most designs.

I don't consider this to be a disappointment in any way. By most accounts, Polaris 10 is about the same die size as Pitcairn, which topped out at just under 2.6 TFlops. If Polaris 10 has more than double the raw performance at the same die size, bus width, and power consumption, plus a bunch of new features, that's about the most we can reasonably expect for a full node shrink.

Let's not forget that GTX 980 does "only" 4.6 TFlops at stock. The reason it contended with Hawaii was because AMD cards of the 28nm generation were less effective at using all their resources in DX11 titles. If Polaris fixes this using some combination of hardware and/or software optimizations, and we see shader utilization on par with Maxwell, then we could be looking at GTX 980 + 20% performance from Polaris 10.

Is this also to be released sometime in the next two months along with the other Polaris cards or is this expected at a later time/date? This would be it's basically an AMD Fury replacement?
 
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digitaldurandal

Golden Member
Dec 3, 2009
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What historical parallel to draw the P10 to? I compare it to Pitcairn, which at launch was about 10% slower than a 660 Ti. Compare the die sizes of Pitcairn vs GK104 to P10 vs GP104 - virtually identical ratios. It's debatable if 1070 is cutdown less than the 660 Ti, so I'm gonna be very generous and give P10 15% instead of 10%.

This is the new Kepler vs GCN 1.0 - new cards after a major node shrink. Nvidia made great strides with Maxwell but appear to have not improved Pascal IPC. Will AMD still be stuck in 2012-2013? Or can they make similar gains to Nvidia from 2014 and "reset" where Kepler and GCN 1.0 were at launch (which is pre-GCN improvements - 7870 matched 660 Ti later on in the gen - again I am being generous in my expectations).

You can compare P10 to 380X and 1070 to 970 and be happy. But continuing the performance-per-mm, performance-per-FLOP, and performance-per-watt of Maxwell vs GCN 1.0-1.2 is unacceptable if they truly intend to compete again and not suffer at 20-25% marketshare.

They are winning SoCs and brand deals and I believe it is with this chip which also would explain why they prioritized it. They need cash flow and they are going to get some continued and new from Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and Apple. If I am right all of these use some form of Polaris. Additionally the market at the top. AMD suffered some loss in dGPU for the laptop market and I think they plan to take it back with P11.

With 20% market share they cannot depend so heavily on consumer PCs for their stream and your priorities lie with your customers. If a huge portion of your customers are four companies and you can create a single uarch to meet those needs that is great.

I don't believe they made any real money with Fury, I believe they can make money with Polaris. It is not the chip I would buy but I can put myself in their shoes and understand why they did it. It is possible (pure speculation) they thought Fury X would clock a bit higher and hold a performance win over 980ti to hold everything over until Vega. However by the time the clocks are finalized it would have been too late to change your plan which may be why Vega is (rumor) being rushed a few months earlier.

When you have a card with 9 TFLOPS you probably think it will crush the competition with 6.

To be fair looking at the 1080 aftermarket review for Strix (in multiple reviews it does not OC better than the FE) the 980ti when overclocked is just as fast as the 1080 in games (due to throttling at 1.125V which cannot be changed supposedly.) Nvidia has not brought anything new in terms of performance only in terms of power usage.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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To be fair looking at the 1080 aftermarket review for Strix (in multiple reviews it does not OC better than the FE) the 980ti when overclocked is just as fast as the 1080 in games (due to throttling at 1.125V which cannot be changed supposedly.) Nvidia has not brought anything new in terms of performance only in terms of power usage.

No it's not. OCed Strix is almost 50% faster than stock Geforce GTX 980 Ti. It can close the gap but won't match Geforce GTX 1080 when both are OCed.
 

dacostafilipe

Senior member
Oct 10, 2013
772
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Would also add that partners did show custom designs on the Polaris Tech Event. They talk about refined products for midrange cards.
 

digitaldurandal

Golden Member
Dec 3, 2009
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No it's not. OCed Strix is almost 50% faster than stock Geforce GTX 980 Ti. It can close the gap but won't match Geforce GTX 1080 when both are OCed.

Okay, true but to be fair it narrowed it to a 14-15% increase in performance

http://www.computerbase.de/2016-05/geforce-gtx-1080-test/12/

People on these forums were dreaming of 2400 to 2500mhz OCs. This does not appear to be the case (maybe for the eventual ti?)

So with only a 15% difference for the AIB version (at least one version.) Someone with only the FE version could have purchased an aftermarket 980ti a long time ago. I guess the exception being if they plan to be a VR early adopter and wanted some of Pascal's feature set.
 

KaRLiToS

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2010
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I don't get why people are complaining so much, if this card is 980 performance at lower power, lower price, and more features, how is that not a win ?

I would be buying one as soon as it is released, and many others will as well.

Why? Simple, I want an high end card from AMD. Not an Ngreedia, GameWreck overpriced card. Actually I would buy 3 cards.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Why? Simple, I want an high end card from AMD. Not an Ngreedia, GameWreck overpriced card. Actually I would buy 3 cards.

NV doesn't officially support 3-4 way SLI anymore. It smells like 3-4 way SLI will only work well in synthetics. You could always grab 2x1080 SLI and then 3x Vega in 2017.
 

KaRLiToS

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2010
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NV doesn't officially support 3-4 way SLI anymore. It smells like 3-4 way SLI will only work well in synthetics. You could always grab 2x1080 SLI and then 3x Vega in 2017.

I know they only support 2-way SLI GTX 1080. And I hope they release Vega before 2017 (October) And if they do, I hope it's not a huge fail.

A GTX 1080 is 910$ CAD before tax. Ouch
 
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