AMD Polaris Thread: Radeon RX 480, RX 470 & RX 460 launching June 29th

[Mopetar]

I don't need a Semiaccurate article to know NV rushed their paper launch way before they were ready.

. . .

One could argue that since the 1080 is the best possible card you can buy at the moment, that it doesn't matter when they launched it. Later gives them better inventory, but sooner gets it into customer hands faster. If some people want to pay an inflated price for it, that's their own business.

The FE pricing is pretty much "screw you" pricing, but it also serves as a way to set the bar for early adopter's tax. From what I've seen, almost no one seems to be biting at cards priced above the FE price. It's a concession from Nvidia that they knew the supply would be practically non-existent, but it also seems to be regulating the pricing in such a market.

Had Nvidia also been targeting the mainstream market first, this strategy obviously would not have worked.

 

[Stuka87]

I wonder if AMD will regret not having AIB custom coolers for launch day, again (they learned so well with custom only 300 series).

This not only sets an initial impression on July 29th, but a continuous impression as:

1) Many sites will continue to compare this card in upcoming reviews (against 1060, Vega, etc)
2) Many people will google 480 reviews and get the launch day reviews.

Even if, by chance, all the 480s overclock the same including reference, you are still leaving a relatively worse noise and heat impression. Nvidia can get away with it, but AMD cannot.

And right now the common belief is OC results will be markedly better on aftermarket, so that's just another metric that will make the card look less desirable than if we had Nitro there day 1.

I'm surprised they would do this again. Unlike 290 series this looks to be just fine for stock speeds, but AMD needs every edge they can get and a blower just doesn't leave a great impression most of the time.

Exactly, it will be the 290 all over again. Even Anandtech uses the d@mn reference version of the 290, even though it performs significantly worse than the later AIB versions.

 

[crisium]

Not a mistake. They had to have a reference model because they have lot of oem's getting these cards as well and they had to price it cheap. The first impression they have to set it bang for buck. If that 229 stock it delivers 980 stock performance they have done their job. 229 sounds way better than not having a base price on launch day. Give it breathing room and you can have AIBs launch ASAP in like 2 weeks. Almost every rumor has been mid july for AIB cards that is pretty quick.

Remember the first impression is $$$ and performance for it. Second impression is aesthetics. If they have AIB cards and no reference they fail at the first impression. AIB cards are going to be all above msrp.

We'll see. 290 reference scared an entire generation away from AMD. 1080 FE apparently is the "fastest selling high end" ever, or some such nonsense.

A theoretical scenario could mean reference $230 alongside "paper launched" AIB $240+ on day one, with AIB cards going to the heavy hitter review sites.

You don't even need high volume AIB cards to sample them to the top ~10 press sites early. You literally just need 10. A bit disingenuous, but IF review sites are less than favorable to the blower they will feel the string for years to come as it is used and compared in subsequent reviews and googled reviews find the reference for the whole generation... in 2017, in 2018, beyond? That'll be worse flak than "AMD paper launches AIB cards to reviewers that don't launch for 2 weeks" which will be forgotten in about 2 weeks.

 

[Mopetar]

My point was that they all throttle during Furmark. It's not because of the quality of the heatsink. It's done in software.

Wouldn't the hardware eventually throttle anyway though? I think almost everything these days has a thermal cutoff point where it's not going to allow itself to suffer heat death and will either shut down or drop clock speeds until it cools down.

 

[Silverforce11]

My point was that they all throttle during Furmark. It's not because of the quality of the heatsink. It's done in software.

I know that, but my point is if RX 480 has 70s C during gaming but goes up to 85C in Furmark, that's a flaw in their design. They should not allow power viruses to function. Cap the TDP limit harder.

Look at the Asus Fury, strict bios TDP limit. Same for the Nano. It can be done via bios TDP limits.

If it's not regulated, you get obscene situations where a GTX 980 pulls 350W in Fumark... but here, it's an AIB card. It can get away with it. But a reference card should never be allowed to run hot or power hungry, not for a mainstream card.

There are many review sites that use Furmark for power & temp testing.

 

[.vodka]

Blowers get overwhelmed once you cross the 150-200w load barrier.

It's easily seen on the GTX680/770 and 780Ti, GTX980 and 980Ti, the blower can cope with the load in the midrange chips (little to no throttling), yet once you get to the big high end chips.. throttling, and lots of it unless you crank up fan speed to compensate. That's even considering the big chips have fancy vapor chamber heatsinks.

GTX1070 and 1080 although being mid range xx4 chips, this time are nearer the 200w mark than 150w, and it shows in the FE reviews, a few minutes in and they can't keep clocks high unless you crank up fan speed. This wouldn't be a problem if nV hadn't tried to scam people out of $100 for a subpar cooling solution for the chip they'd designed. Blowers are nice, yeah, but 1080 level cards are at a blower's limits. If you want perfect 10/10 cooling performance at that kind of thermal load and silent noise levels, you've got to move on to an open air cooler. No way around it.

Reference 290/x is what happens when you try to deal with a 250-300w load at reasonable noise levels with a blower (40% fan speed, not uber 55% mode) even taking into account the sky high 95°C throttling point.



Yes, the RX480 is a $200-230 card that includes a blower designed to hit that budget. The heatsink looks basic and doesn't have the fancy vapor chamber or heatpipes higher end blowers have, but then you're dealing with a 75-110w load here depending on the game or application. We've seen the 150w wall with Furmark. It's well within the comfortable range for a blower to keep the card cool at quiet noise levels and usual temperature range for stock cards (75-82°C) at stock clock speeds. Just what the mass market needs, not many people overclock.

So, no. No chance of this being another 290x situation. The thermal load P10 poses isn't even a challenge for a basic blower. Now if this were the RX 490 and a 250-300w TDP card at that, and used a blower.. then yeah, there you have reasons to think of another disaster waiting to happen in the reviews.


AIB boards with overbuilt VRMs designed for more than a 150w hard wall and open air coolers are probably going to have P10 in the 6x°C load range at near silent fan speeds, offering lots of headroom for overclocking.

 

[crisium]

It doesn't have to be as bad as the 290 situation. It just has to be somewhat worse than most AIB coolers to be a lost opportunity. A few aftermarket Nitros on day 1 big sites (TPU, Tom's, etc) while NOT proving these select sites with reference would be a marketing investment that would last years.

I think AMD is often critically held to a different standard, so they need whatever advantage they can get (even in the face of a $100 surcharge to a blower, hypocritical I know).

 

[3DVagabond]

Exactly, it will be the 290 all over again. Even Anandtech uses the d@mn reference version of the 290, even though it performs significantly worse than the later AIB versions.

There are sites that still use the reference 290/X instead of the 390/X. They must love that 94° temp on the top of all their charts.

 

[Silverforce11]

Blowers get overwhelmed once you cross the 150-200w load barrier.

It's easily seen on the GTX680/770 and 780Ti, GTX980 and 980Ti, the blower can cope with the load in the midrange chips (little to no throttling), yet once you get to the big high end chips.. throttling, and lots of it unless you crank up fan speed to compensate. That's even considering the big chips have fancy vapor chamber heatsinks.

GTX1070 and 1080 although being mid range xx4 chips, this time are nearer the 200w mark than 150w, and it shows in the FE reviews, a few minutes in and they can't keep clocks high unless you crank up fan speed. This wouldn't be a problem if nV hadn't tried to scam people out of $100 for a subpar cooling solution for the chip they'd designed. Blowers are nice, yeah, but 1080 level cards are at a blower's limits. If you want perfect 10/10 cooling performance at that kind of thermal load and silent noise levels, you've got to move on to an open air cooler. No way around it.

Reference 290/x is what happens when you try to deal with a 250-300w load at reasonable noise levels with a blower (40% fan speed, not uber 55% mode) even taking into account the sky high 95°C throttling point.



Yes, the RX480 is a $200-230 card that includes a blower designed to hit that budget. The heatsink looks basic and doesn't have the fancy vapor chamber or heatpipes higher end blowers have, but then you're dealing with a 75-110w load here depending on the game or application. We've seen the 150w wall with Furmark. It's well within the comfortable range for a blower to keep the card cool at quiet noise levels and usual temperature range for stock cards (75-82°C) at stock clock speeds. Just what the mass market needs, not many people overclock.

So, no. No chance of this being another 290x situation. The thermal load P10 poses isn't even a challenge for a basic blower. Now if this were the RX 490 and a 250-300w TDP card at that, and used a blower.. then yeah, there you have reasons to think of another disaster waiting to happen in the reviews.


AIB boards with overbuilt VRMs designed for more than a 150w hard wall and open air coolers are probably going to have P10 in the 6x°C load range at near silent fan speeds, offering lots of headroom for overclocking.

Great post man. Reference blowers are perfect for low power GPUs, it fits more cases, great for mITX and OEM builds with poor airflow etc.

AMD just needs their reference to be quiet and 70-80C and that's spot on good quality. Since we've had many sources now say the card is quiet during gaming, the signs are good.

 

[guachi]

I was doing a bit of price/performance by looking up prices on Newegg and taking an average. It was a rough average as I was taking prices from cards with different speeds, but whatever.

If the 480 comes in at 980 speeds then it's about 40% more price/performance than its price and name equivalents, the 380 and 380x. It's about 100% more price/performance than its performance equivalents, the 980 and 390x.

To me that's.... really good. Good enough I'll actually buy one, though it'll likely be an 8GB AIB version unless reviews are very positive on the reference cards.

I guess that's ultimately what matters - is it good enough to get you to buy it?

 

[catboy]

I'm surprised to see so many advocates for blower coolers. I'm a layman what it comes to GPUs, but based on my personal experience, blower coolers are awful.

In 2012, I bought an EVGA GeForce 660 Superclocked card with a blower cooler, and by now it is causing me all kinds of problems, many of which probably happen because it overheats. I expect that the crappy blower cooler on it is a large reason for why that card is so faulty.

After that GPU crashes my system (often when it does so, a hear a sound as if a vacuum cleaner turned on inside of my PC; I think the sound originates from that GPU's blower fan becoming mega screwed up), which it does all the time, it is always very hot to the touch.

Now I have to buy a new GPU since that old one is defective. The RX 480 would be a good candidate, except that the blower cooler on is to me an instant red flag that screams, "This is crap, don't buy it." I like my hardware to last as long as possible, and blower coolers are counter-productive to that goal IMO. I expect that if I were to buy an RX 480 with a blower cooler, I'd probably have to replace that in a few years too.

AMD's designers should have known that blower coolers are bad and therefore decided instead to put something better on those cards. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't have, unless they wanted to be cheap and cut corners on quality.

 

[Elixer]

AMD's designers should have known that blower coolers are bad and therefore decided instead to put something better on those cards. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't have, unless they wanted to be cheap and cut corners on quality.

Not all blowers are created equally.
There are some pretty good ones out there. Some are even better than non-blower designed units.

While personally, I don't like them, there still is a big market for blower cards.

 

[3DVagabond]

I'm surprised to see so many advocates for blower coolers. I'm a layman what it comes to GPUs, but based on my personal experience, blower coolers are awful.

In 2012, I bought an EVGA GeForce 660 Superclocked card with a blower cooler, and by now it is causing me all kinds of problems, many of which probably happen because it overheats. I expect that the crappy blower cooler on it is a large reason for why that card is so faulty.

After that GPU crashes my system (often when it does so, a hear a sound as if a vacuum cleaner turned on inside of my PC; I think the sound originates from that GPU's blower fan becoming mega screwed up), which it does all the time, it is always very hot to the touch.

Now I have to buy a new GPU since that old one is defective. The RX 480 would be a good candidate, except that the blower cooler on is to me an instant red flag that screams, "This is crap, don't buy it." I like my hardware to last as long as possible, and blower coolers are counter-productive to that goal IMO. I expect that if I were to buy an RX 480 with a blower cooler, I'd probably have to replace that in a few years too.

AMD's designers should have known that blower coolers are bad and therefore decided instead to put something better on those cards. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't have, unless they wanted to be cheap and cut corners on quality.

Blower coolers are just the defacto standard. It's mainly because it removes the heat from the case.

 

[The Alias]

Blower coolers are just the defacto standard. It's mainly because it removes the heat from the case.

Protecting the rest of your system isn't what most people should be worried about, because the only other producing any real heat is the cpu which nowadays are sub 70w components that barely run over 55c (4790k).

The priority for cooling components in 2016 has changed. No longer is the CPU the most power hungry component. Our gpus are consuming literally three times as much power as our cpus. It's time we started acting like it and stop dressing our gpus in dainty 1880-style blowers. Same goes for OEM coolers.

 

[JDG1980]

Protecting the rest of your system isn't what most people should be worried about, because the only other producing any real heat is the cpu which nowadays are sub 70w components that barely run over 55c (4790k).

The priority for cooling components in 2016 has changed. No longer is the CPU the most power hungry component. Our gpus are consuming literally three times as much power as our cpus. It's time we started acting like it and stop dressing our gpus in dainty 1880-style blowers. Same goes for OEM coolers.

The real problem is the antiquated form factors we use for PCs. ATX is crap, and BTX isn't really much better because it doesn't address the video card. The cylindrical 2013 Mac Pro shows the way things should be going. There's no reason something like this couldn't be done in a DIY-friendly manner, if there was some kind of standard with industry support. Make a four-sided case with a big heatsink in the middle, ventilated upward by a fan on the bottom or the top (or both). Put the motherboard on one face with the CPU facing inward and touching the heatsink, and bus connectors on each adjacent corner for the video card(s) on adjacent edges, also touching the central heatsink. The fourth corner (opposite the motherboard) could have the PSU, engineered in a special format to be flatter and wider. This would be far superior to the designs we have now.

 

[3DVagabond]

Protecting the rest of your system isn't what most people should be worried about, because the only other producing any real heat is the cpu which nowadays are sub 70w components that barely run over 55c (4790k).

The priority for cooling components in 2016 has changed. No longer is the CPU the most power hungry component. Our gpus are consuming literally three times as much power as our cpus. It's time we started acting like it and stop dressing our gpus in dainty 1880-style blowers. Same goes for OEM coolers.

You don't have to buy one.

There are people who are looking at the best bang/$. $199 RX480 with a blower on it is actually suitable.

 

[3DVagabond]

The real problem is the antiquated form factors we use for PCs. ATX is crap, and BTX isn't really much better because it doesn't address the video card. The cylindrical 2013 Mac Pro shows the way things should be going. There's no reason something like this couldn't be done in a DIY-friendly manner, if there was some kind of standard with industry support. Make a four-sided case with a big heatsink in the middle, ventilated upward by a fan on the bottom or the top (or both). Put the motherboard on one face with the CPU facing inward and touching the heatsink, and bus connectors on each adjacent corner for the video card(s) on adjacent edges, also touching the central heatsink. The fourth corner (opposite the motherboard) could have the PSU, engineered in a special format to be flatter and wider. This would be far superior to the designs we have now.

Sure! Lots of people spend the money to get a well engineered case.

Seriously though, many people want to spend nothing, or as close to nothing as they can for a case.

 

[daperl]

The real problem is the antiquated form factors we use for PCs. ATX is crap, and BTX isn't really much better because it doesn't address the video card. The cylindrical 2013 Mac Pro shows the way things should be going. There's no reason something like this couldn't be done in a DIY-friendly manner, if there was some kind of standard with industry support. Make a four-sided case with a big heatsink in the middle, ventilated upward by a fan on the bottom or the top (or both). Put the motherboard on one face with the CPU facing inward and touching the heatsink, and bus connectors on each adjacent corner for the video card(s) on adjacent edges, also touching the central heatsink. The fourth corner (opposite the motherboard) could have the PSU, engineered in a special format to be flatter and wider. This would be far superior to the designs we have now.

Do you think the MSI Vortex was a good start? If you haven't seen it already, here's a tear down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIVutYE6vxc

 

[The Alias]

You don't have to buy one.

There are people who are looking at the best bang/$. $199 RX480 with a blower on it is actually suitable.

That's not actually addressing my point that the proposed application for blowers coolers is antiquated. If temps are alright in the reviews chances are I'm going to get one. That said I can't make observations about flawed trains of thought

 

[Stuka87]

I'm surprised to see so many advocates for blower coolers. I'm a layman what it comes to GPUs, but based on my personal experience, blower coolers are awful.

In 2012, I bought an EVGA GeForce 660 Superclocked card with a blower cooler, and by now it is causing me all kinds of problems, many of which probably happen because it overheats. I expect that the crappy blower cooler on it is a large reason for why that card is so faulty.

After that GPU crashes my system (often when it does so, a hear a sound as if a vacuum cleaner turned on inside of my PC; I think the sound originates from that GPU's blower fan becoming mega screwed up), which it does all the time, it is always very hot to the touch.

Now I have to buy a new GPU since that old one is defective. The RX 480 would be a good candidate, except that the blower cooler on is to me an instant red flag that screams, "This is crap, don't buy it." I like my hardware to last as long as possible, and blower coolers are counter-productive to that goal IMO. I expect that if I were to buy an RX 480 with a blower cooler, I'd probably have to replace that in a few years too.

AMD's designers should have known that blower coolers are bad and therefore decided instead to put something better on those cards. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't have, unless they wanted to be cheap and cut corners on quality.

Open it up, probably full of dust inside.

 

[StrangerGuy]

The real problem is the antiquated form factors we use for PCs. ATX is crap, and BTX isn't really much better because it doesn't address the video card. The cylindrical 2013 Mac Pro shows the way things should be going. There's no reason something like this couldn't be done in a DIY-friendly manner, if there was some kind of standard with industry support. Make a four-sided case with a big heatsink in the middle, ventilated upward by a fan on the bottom or the top (or both). Put the motherboard on one face with the CPU facing inward and touching the heatsink, and bus connectors on each adjacent corner for the video card(s) on adjacent edges, also touching the central heatsink. The fourth corner (opposite the motherboard) could have the PSU, engineered in a special format to be flatter and wider. This would be far superior to the designs we have now.

Good luck expecting innovation from the PC OEMs when their priorities starts and ends with cost cutting.

 

[nkdesistyle]

You guys know this card is going in to OEM systems. So they need a blower type reference design that can be mass produced and keeps the cost minimum but keeps the card within range of certain temperatures. Looks like thats what we are getting. Plain and simple, you want card thats cooler and OCs better, I am sure AIBs will be competing hard there. Competition is good!

 

[IEC]

Wouldn't be surprised to see a Sapphire triple-fan cooler, Radeon Fury style for a RX480. That would probably beat the Sapphire Fury's performance and noise levels, which would basically set it in a class of its own as best out of the box air cooled card.

 

[beginner99]

Correct - I can't believe there is no news about the 1060 and I'm starting to think Nvidia won't be competitive in this market seeing as though they haven't released a compelling mainstream part in a long time.

Btw - don't think they can get the wafers for a mainstream part either. Maybe they should go to Samsung.

That would actually be hilarious if having to go with GF is an advantage for AMD because almost everyone else went with TSMC.

It's 5 weeks after the "launch", 1070 and 1080 stocks are nonexistant. The shills would love to believe demand is just so crazy that it's the only reason. They are in dream land if they think demand for $699 GPU is mass volume. I know for a fact many retailers here only received a handful for the launch, and every few days, another small handful arrives.

Funy. I checked the commonly used online store here and they have plenty of 1080 FE in stock if I believe their system (over 40 at least). However that shop is also price gouging as other shops albeit out of stock offer FE editions for $100 less...So maybe that's why there is stock because buyers here aren't that dumb or as you said demand isn't that high.

1070 however are almost out of stock.

(Note: having multiple models with a comment of over 10 at warehouse is rather uncommon here for high-end PC components)

 

[brandonmatic]

I'll say it again for those who pretend not to know:

RX 480 if it can match a GTX 980 & 390X, brings performance of $499 & $399 down to $199/$229. That's not good enough?

For those of us who bought a 290 at $210 or a 290x at $260, this is a bit underwhelming. But maybe it just goes to show what incredible value those cards offered. I think it's great that AMD is offering what looks like a fantastic card at $199. I guess it's just not meant for people like me who jumped on an all-time great deal back in early 2015.