AMD processors confusion

[TriggerHappy101]

Hey guys I am starting up my own small business which will be creating PCs for people around my area. I will also offer upgrades, virus/spyware/adware/etc removal, wireless network implementation & security, and of course computer repair.
In my PCs I will be primarily be using AMD, and Nvidia components.

I?ve been doing some research lately on CPUs and I have been having some trouble. Mainly my trouble is that I do not know when to use specific kinds of AMD CPUs for specific situations. An example: if I needed to build a mid-range gaming PC which processor would I choose? I know to the extent that it doesn?t need the dual core processor, and a 64bit processor would be the best choice. But beyond that I have a hard time picking which 64bit processor. There is so many of them and I can not differentiate them from each other.

Could someone please direct me to some good articles of picking out AMD CPUs? And maybe even some good benchmarks? I just got done reading a 60 page article at tomshardware on CPUs and it did a very bad job on telling me what processor I should use when. ( http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/21/the_mother_of_all_cpu_charts_2005/ )

Thanks for your time!

Kevin Bryant

 

[Snakexor]

whatever you do, dont o/c, just starts trouble

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

after all it depends on the total system cost. your customers should tell you their price limit and what they want to do with their system (office, gaming, professional encoding). price- and performancewise 3000+ to 3800+ are all good deals. if someone is on a tight budget but still wants a gaming rig, most games seem to be gpu bound so go for a smaller cpu and a bigger GPU.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: TriggerHappy101
Hey guys I am starting up my own small business which will be creating PCs for people around my area. I will also offer upgrades, virus/spyware/adware/etc removal, wireless network implementation & security, and of course computer repair.
In my PCs I will be primarily be using AMD, and Nvidia components.

I?ve been doing some research lately on CPUs and I have been having some trouble. Mainly my trouble is that I do not know when to use specific kinds of AMD CPUs for specific situations. An example: if I needed to build a mid-range gaming PC which processor would I choose? I know to the extent that it doesn?t need the dual core processor, and a 64bit processor would be the best choice. But beyond that I have a hard time picking which 64bit processor. There is so many of them and I can not differentiate them from each other.

Could someone please direct me to some good articles of picking out AMD CPUs? And maybe even some good benchmarks? I just got done reading a 60 page article at tomshardware on CPUs and it did a very bad job on telling me what processor I should use when. ( http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/21/the_mother_of_all_cpu_charts_2005/ )

Thanks for your time!

Kevin Bryant

For a midrange gaming system, I'd say to just get something like a Socket939 3000+/3200+/3500+ and call it a day. A faster CPU is somewhat better, but generally for gaming it's better to get a cheaper/slower CPU (within reason) and a faster videocard if you're on a budget. People worry WAY too much about being "CPU-bound" IMO; you can always turn up resolution or AA/AF/detail settings to make a game more GPU-bound.

Games will start using dual-core CPUs more in the next few years, and they do help if you have other tasks running in the background even if the game doesn't explicitly support them. But they're still significantly more expensive than the single-core A64s.

XBitLabs recently did an article on CPUs and gaming (part 1 part 2). You might take a look at that if you want more details.

 

[eXx08]

Budget Gaming = Opteron 144
Mid Range Gaming = Opteron 146
High End Gaming = Opteron 148

Budget Mulitasking = Opteron 165
Mid Range Multitasking =Otperon 170
High End Multitasking = Opteron 175

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Opteron Guy
Budget Gaming = Opteron 144
Mid Range Gaming = Opteron 146
High End Gaming = Opteron 148

Budget Mulitasking = Opteron 165
Mid Range Multitasking =Otperon 170
High End Multitasking = Opteron 175

Unless you are OCing, or for some reason you can get the S939 Opterons cheaper than the corresponding A64s, there's little reason to buy the S939 Opterons over the regular S939 Athlon64s.

 

[erwos]

You need to target price points, not particular pieces of hardware.

First: as a no-name white box builder, you will be asked for _cheap_ systems 99% of the time. The cheaper, the better! Figure out the cheapest system that can run WinXP. Try to hit $300, including an OS and a margin to actually pay for your time. A $20 case, $40 mobo, $20 of RAM, $50 of OS, and $60 of CPU - voila, you've got a $110 margin to cover labor and everything else. Sure, it's a piece of trash, but you'd be surprised what people will pay for. Make sure to actually image the thing so you can not only do builds faster, but restore your clients' computers to a pristine working state when the system gets fulls of viruses and spyware.

You may have had this vision of mostly building tricked-out custom rigs. Get it out of your head. It may happen once in a great while, but once you get over $500, most people just call Dell. Sad fact of life.

Second: use cheap labor. High school kids are good for this. Pay minimum wage. The only training they'll need is how to wear a static wrist band and use a screw driver. Even if it takes them twice as long as you, your margin stays intact. They also don't need benefits besides a flexible schedule - big plus!

Third: upgrades are your friend. Hit hard for upgrades. "512mb? That'll be $50 extra, please!" Definitely make use of all those DIMM slots, too! Extra points for "Geforce upgrades" for $100 where you use a 6200TC.

The white box business is a soul sucker. Be wary of entering it.

-Erwos

 

[TriggerHappy101]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
For a midrange gaming system, I'd say to just get something like a Socket939 3000+/3200+/3500+ and call it a day. A faster CPU is somewhat better, but generally for gaming it's better to get a cheaper/slower CPU (within reason) and a faster videocard if you're on a budget. People worry WAY too much about being "CPU-bound" IMO; you can always turn up resolution or AA/AF/detail settings to make a game more GPU-bound.

Games will start using dual-core CPUs more in the next few years, and they do help if you have other tasks running in the background even if the game doesn't explicitly support them. But they're still significantly more expensive than the single-core A64s.

XBitLabs recently did an article on CPUs and gaming (part 1 part 2). You might take a look at that if you want more details.

Thanks man, your post and link helped me tremendously. I now understand CPUs and their role a bit better. Seems like you really only need about an AMD Tthlon 64 3200+ to take care of the games needs. Which is a good thing because you can then focus the money on the video card, and more memory which will give you a far more bonus in FPS.

Originally posted by: Opteron Guy
Budget Gaming = Opteron 144
Mid Range Gaming = Opteron 146
High End Gaming = Opteron 148

Budget Mulitasking = Opteron 165
Mid Range Multitasking =Otperon 170
High End Multitasking = Opteron 175

Egh... Opteron? I haven?t even seen those in current benchmarking articles.... I think ill stick with AMD 64 3X00+ series.

Originally posted by: erwos
You need to target price points, not particular pieces of hardware.

First: as a no-name white box builder, you will be asked for _cheap_ systems 99% of the time. The cheaper, the better! Figure out the cheapest system that can run WinXP. Try to hit $300, including an OS and a margin to actually pay for your time. A $20 case, $40 mobo, $20 of RAM, $50 of OS, and $60 of CPU - voila, you've got a $110 margin to cover labor and everything else. Sure, it's a piece of trash, but you'd be surprised what people will pay for. Make sure to actually image the thing so you can not only do builds faster, but restore your clients' computers to a pristine working state when the system gets fulls of viruses and spyware.

You may have had this vision of mostly building tricked-out custom rigs. Get it out of your head. It may happen once in a great while, but once you get over $500, most people just call Dell. Sad fact of life.

Second: use cheap labor. High school kids are good for this. Pay minimum wage. The only training they'll need is how to wear a static wrist band and use a screw driver. Even if it takes them twice as long as you, your margin stays intact. They also don't need benefits besides a flexible schedule - big plus!

Third: upgrades are your friend. Hit hard for upgrades. "512mb? That'll be $50 extra, please!" Definitely make use of all those DIMM slots, too! Extra points for "Geforce upgrades" for $100 where you use a 6200TC.

The white box business is a soul sucker. Be wary of entering it.

-Erwos

Yes I expect alot of the customers to be wanting the cheapest system they can get. I will be fixing together several cheapest systems I can create.

I won?t be using cheap labor because I will be the only employee. I do not plan on opening up a store front or anything, just an in home bussiness. The upgrade thing is a good idea, even though it is a marketing scam. A working marketing scam at that (just ask dell.)

And what do you mean the business is a soul sucker? Seems quite enjoyable and easy to me.

Thank you all guys for your help, you have been great. Anymore input/links is appreciated.

 

[TriggerHappy101]

By the way:

Quick question. From best to worst - which core types are the best? EX: Venice, Newcastle, winchester, etc etc. I notice several different types for the AMD 64 3200+ with different price points (about 10-20 bucks different). What kind of performance difference will I see between the two?

 

[CraigSlice]

Originally posted by: Opteron Guy
Budget Gaming = Opteron 144
Mid Range Gaming = Opteron 146
High End Gaming = Opteron 148

Budget Mulitasking = Opteron 165
Mid Range Multitasking =Otperon 170
High End Multitasking = Opteron 175

I'd think, if someone if having him build the PC's, there not too computer savvy. So they wont know a thing about overclocking. Stay away from Opteron, unless a customer specifically asks for one, but i'd doubt that they would. Just stick with regular AMD's

 

[ShellGuy]

I have a customer who right now is asking for Two Dual core Opterons...


Will G.

 

[Jeff7181]

Am I the only one who thinks a person who doesn't know enough about processors to pick one for each application is going to have an extremely tough time running a business built around the concept that he builds you a computer that does what you want?

 

[DanDaMan315]

I personally think your gonna have a rough time making a living, or even a supplement to your income. In these days of super cheap Dells you can't compete.

 

[ShellGuy]

But you can't have exactly what you want with your dell and it can take weeks to get there. I can build it and support it and you know where i work.


Will G.

 

[alimoalem]

Originally posted by: DanDaMan315
I personally think your gonna have a rough time making a living, or even a supplement to your income. In these days of super cheap Dells you can't compete.

this is true. if you are making a $300 budget system, dell has $300-500 budget systems with 15" flat panels. the only place you can really compete is the $1200+ range. do you have a clientele built up yet?

 

[alimoalem]

Originally posted by: DanDaMan315
I personally think your gonna have a rough time making a living, or even a supplement to your income. In these days of super cheap Dells you can't compete.

this is true. if you are making a $300 budget system, dell has $300-500 budget systems with 15" flat panels. the only place you can really compete is the $1200+ range. do you have a clientele built up yet?

 

[Greenman]

TriggerHappy101, I don't think you know enough about computers to pull this off. I'm not trying to insult you, but your posts show a basic lack of knowledge about the hardware you're going to sell and support. I think you're going to have some problems along the way, and some very anoyed customers.

 

[TriggerHappy101]

I am not doing this for my primary job, I have a part time job. This is just a side job. And yes I have been out of the PC community for awhile but I am getting back in. I have build dozens of PCs for friends and myself and have never been unsadisified. Im just trying to catch up on all this new technology thats been released these last and a half or so.