AMD Q4/2013 Desktop Roadmap

[Enigmoid]

With Sony PS4 based on the same Jaguar core boasting of a 2.75 ghz Turbo, the TSMC process is now in a good shape to yield high clocking enhanced Jaguar (Puma) designs.

Going good then this particular piece of misinformation pops out and I question everything you wrote. PS4 does not run the cores at 2.75 ghz. That is the GDDR5 speed.

I believe, but am not completely sure, that the PS4 runs at 1.6 ghz and the XB1 runs at 1.75 ghz on the CPU cores.

 

[Shivansps]

1: Jaguar has no Turbo, it cannot use the entire TDP for the CPU alone or downscale the CPU and raise the iGPU Frequency until it will get to the TDP/voltage/thermal level Limit. That way the CPU and the iGPU in Jaguar can only work at a fix Frequency even if it will never reach the TDP limit.
That will change with Puma+.

Some will not agree, but it was about time...

 

[monstercameron]

1: Jaguar has no Turbo, it cannot use the entire TDP for the CPU alone or downscale the CPU and raise the iGPU Frequency until it will get to the TDP/voltage/thermal level Limit. That way the CPU and the iGPU in Jaguar can only work at a fix Frequency even if it will never reach the TDP limit.
That will change with Puma+.

2. They may still use the 28nm TSMC process but they can also change the process to TSMC 28nm HPM for the new SoCs.

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/28nm.htm


So, just because you lack the knowledge doesn't mean AMD lies.

1 sku has turbo, the a6-1450, both on cpu and igp...

 

[SiliconWars]

Kabini launched to zero competition so there wasn't really much need for a turbo that would just have lowered yields and made Beema less of an upgrade...

This is probably also why AMD is so generous with TDP's, pretty sure you will find a large variability in the silicon as AMD sought to maximise yield. These are things you can do when you have no competition, and if/when the competition arises you can drop prices much more easily.

The improvements coming with Beema and Mullins really aren't that surprising when you consider they are the perfected versions of both Kabini and Temash now that AMD has to bring their A-game.

 

[NostaSeronx]

1 sku has turbo, the a6-1450, both on cpu and igp...

It is a set pre-configured TDP, on the A6-1450.

8 Watt mode = 1 GHz/300 MHz
15 Watt mode = 1.4 GHz/400 MHz

The A6-1450 has a stock clock of 1.4 GHz on the CPU and 400 MHz on the GPU. It is throttling to match the 8 watt TDP given to it.

 

[AtenRa]

Some will not agree, but it was about time...

Will not agree to what ??

 

[AtenRa]

1 sku has turbo, the a6-1450, both on cpu and igp...

Yes but as NostaSeronx have said, A6-1450 will turbo to a higher TDP level.

 

[mrmt]

So what you're basically saying in your own special way mrmt, is that AMD rated their Kabini TDP's far too highly. Interestingly enough that's what you might believe if you compared power draw to Intel's "17W" chips.

No. I'm saying that AMD claims of 2x performance/watt are misleading by AMD own admission.

 

[Abwx]

No. I'm saying that AMD claims of 2x performance/watt are misleading by AMD own admission.

Links or at least a technical explanation about this alleged
admission otherwise it s only an unsubstiancied claim thrown
out of thin air.

 

[SiliconWars]

No. I'm saying that AMD claims of 2x performance/watt are misleading by AMD own admission.

This goes both ways and we all know Kabini is never a 15W chip. Anand measured 9W or so, but that didn't stop you and others from comparing Bay Trail to the "15W" Kabini.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35683582&postcount=164
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35461246&postcount=9

Note it's not just AT forum goers either, the tech press was also at it.

http://techreport.com/review/25537/asus-transformer-book-t100-convertible-notebook-reviewed/5

Keep in mind that the A4-5000's 15W TDP is much higher than the Atom Z3740's thermal envelope.

So what is it? You want your cake and eat it but either Kabini is a 15W chip and AMD is telling the truth with their 2x perf/W Beema, or Kabini isn't a 15W chip and you and the rest have been talking nonsense about it for the past 6 months.

It has to be one or the other mrmt, for the sake of consistency can you tell us which one it is and then we can go forward from that?

 

[mrmt]

This goes both ways and we all know Kabini is never a 15W chip. Anand measured 9W or so, but that didn't stop you and others from comparing Bay Trail to the "15W" Kabini.

TDP is the metric you'll use to design your cooling solution and electrical parameters of the MB, so if AMD says Kabini is a 15W chips you should design your other components to handle 15W, otherwise you'll have a FX8350 snafu in your hands. Kabini doesn't have turbo, nor deep sleep states, so whatever the worst case scenario AMD has to pick to establish TDP, it should warrant enough safety margins to run almost everything below the targeted number.

That's not to say that Kabini isn't a 15W chip, but that the limitations of the design force AMD to be a lot more conservative than Intel, or even AMD with their Richland line up.

But I'll throw you a bone. Intel already admited that the workloads they use to establish TDP on the mainstream market isn't the same they are using to establish TDP for the tablet market, so it's likely that they are reporting less TDP than they would if using the desktop methodology.

 

[NTMBK]

A compute unit is:
A Jaguar Module, A Steamroller Module, A Graphic Core Next SIMD.

In Steamroller's and 1.1GCN's case the L2's connected to the CUs are shared and coherent through a 256-bit data bus.

Ah, good point, I forgot that a Jaguar cluster was referred to as a CU as well. (Not seen it used for a CMT module before, though.) So you just mean the L2 caches within each module and within the GPU.

Yes, the caches are coherent, but no, they're not shared. Same way that each module has two separate L1 data caches, which are coherent but not shared.

 

[Sweepr]

SweClockers confirming the roadmap, and a couple of new slides:

http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/17995-amd-forbereder-kabini-for-stationara-datorer-med-sockel-fs1b

 

[Shivansps]

So, socketed Kabinis for desktop... mmm

wtf, what a cheap and misleading marketing.

Will not agree to what ??

some people like having constant clock speeds instead of depending on the TDP constrains.

At some point i can understand, some of the Intel ULV CPU, end up performing diferent based on the device it is on, some OEMs end up disabling turbo completely.

But AMD needed turbo on mobile, there is no other option.

 

[mikk]

The bigger joke is that they compared Ivy Bridge Celeron and not Haswell Celeron. They didn't because in 3dmark Firestrike they would be far behind Haswell Celeron. AMDs big problem is that they don't have a new low cost SoC 2015 whereas Intel brings Cherry Trail and Willow Trail 2015. With Cherry Trail AMDs low cost SoC GPU advantage is lost finally.

 

[Enigmoid]

So, socketed Kabinis for desktop... mmm

wtf, what a cheap and misleading marketing.

Seems desperate. Soc isn't that important on the desktop and Kabini is nowhere close to console quality gaming.

Never mind the Haswell pentiums.

 

[ShintaiDK]

AMD is simply empty of resources. Nothing they can do.

Its why I say its a VIA rerun.

 

[AtenRa]

Never mind the Haswell pentiums.

IvyBridge/Haswell Pentiums are in a different segment. The Kabini is targeting the ENTRY level Desktop systems and directly compete against Intel Celerons.

 

[AtenRa]

AMD is simply empty of resources. Nothing they can do.

Its why I say its a VIA rerun.

The same way Intel is making Celerons with ATOM dies ???

 

[AtenRa]

The bigger joke is that they compared Ivy Bridge Celeron and not Haswell Celeron.

The bigger joke is that there is NO Haswell CELERONS, the new Celerons are ATOM Based. :whiste:

 

[ShintaiDK]

The bigger joke is that there is NO Haswell CELERONS, the new Celerons are ATOM Based. :whiste:

Guess what this is:
http://www.shopblt.com/search/order_id=%2521ORDERID%2521&s_max=25&t_all=1&s_all=BX80646G18

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Celeron_Dual-Core/Intel-Celeron G1820.html

 

[AtenRa]

Guess what this is:
http://www.shopblt.com/search/order_id=%21ORDERID%21&s_max=25&t_all=1&s_all=BX80646G18

Those are not released yet.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Those are not released yet.

But you can buy them. Release is imminent.

http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/Intel_Box/BX80646G1820/12037480/

So no, all new Celerons are not Atom based.

 

[mikk]

The bigger joke is that there is NO Haswell CELERONS, the new Celerons are ATOM Based. :whiste:

Haswell Celeron models for desktop are scheduled for Q1 2014, socketed Kabini is scheduled for Q1 2014 as well. Launch March 2014 according to the new slide to be accurate.

 

[lyssword]

3dmark chart they give is of integrated graphics performance? Because haswell pentium would murder A4 or whatever with discrete card.