AMD Q4 2013 result. 1.59B$ revenue, 5.3B$ for the year

[ShintaiDK]

In Q4 2012 the graphics division had net revenues of 326 million and 22 million in operating income, assuming that this quarter's 865 mill revenue included 500 million in revenue from consoles, we are left with revenues of 365 million which would equate to 12% Y2Y growth in revenues for all other sectors of this division. Even if we increase Y2Y operating income by 50%, you end up with operating income of 33 million. Considering that the operating income of the graphics division was 121 million this quarter, We are looking at a ~88 million operating income off the console revenue of 500 million. I would consider this fairly high returns especially when compared to their previous figures...

GPU revenues havent gone up since. They have gone down. It still leaves consoles in the 15-20% margin range as predicted. Its good if AMD is just to hump along for a long time. Not so good if they are to make lots of new R&D that they desperately need. And it shows on their R&D budget.

 

[Abwx]

And it shows on their R&D budget.

YoY headcount has increased by 300, we dont know in wich
division they were recruited but we can be sure that their
RD crews head counts have not been reduced despite the lower
RD budget , it can be a one time expense that wont happen
in consecutive quarters, like new hardware for their simulators,
wich is wrongly interpreted as RD budget being reduced.

 

[Tristor]

For AMD to really be successful in their current small core strategy we'll have to see an almost universal paradigm shift in software design to embrace massive parallelism over other efficiencies. This is hard though, because writing good parallel code is hard (and in some languages functionally impossible). Meanwhile, they're still far behind Intel in IPCs at similar TDPs, which is a real killer when the current trend for purchasing is towards perf/watt over pretty much all other considerations.

Especially as we look at the explosion of the "The Cloud" in the marketplace, we're going to see density continue to be a driving factor in the datacenter market, which is not an insignificant purchaser of CPU resources. Intel currently has this segment on lock-down. AMD had an early gain since many providers built out Opteron based platforms because of the cost differential, but the performance gap between AMD and Intel is so large now that the extra cost is negligible for the type of work that can be performed within the same density. With sleds and blades becoming commonplace for Cloud datacenter applications, I just don't see AMD gaining any ground back unless they release a totally new architecture on the CPU side.

As an example of this, look at the new performance offerings from Amazon and Rackspace. They're charging lower utility pricing for faster Intel cores, because they're able to achieve better power density. Power is the number one cost for running a datacenter environment, not the equipment that goes into it, so it's obvious why this would be. This is despite the fact that both Amazon and Rackspace invested heavily in AMD-based gear for their original offerings.

 

[Slomo4shO]

GPU revenues havent gone up since. They have gone down. It still leaves consoles in the 15-20% margin range as predicted. Its good if AMD is just to hump along for a long time. Not so good if they are to make lots of new R&D that they desperately need. And it shows on their R&D budget.

I am aware, I was just illustrating with exaggerated figures that the consoles are yielding the expected margins...

As far as R&D, innovation isn't tied to budgets. Consider Intel's latest advancements and its R&D budget

 

[ShintaiDK]

As far as R&D, innovation isn't tied to budgets. Consider Intel's latest advancements and its R&D budget

That only shows you that the R&D budget gives you exactly what you pay for.

 

[Slomo4shO]

That only shows you that the R&D budget gives you exactly what you pay for.

10.6 Billion for 2013 and 10.1 Billion in 2012 for R&D lead to what revolutionary products exactly?

 

[Phynaz]

Not horrible, but the real tell will be this quarter when they don't have Christmas sales to buoy them.

 

[ShintaiDK]

10.6 Billion for 2013 and 10.1 Billion in 2012 for R&D lead to what revolutionary products exactly?

Innovation is not tied in revolutionary products.

 

[Slomo4shO]

Innovation is not tied in revolutionary products.

Lets stick to innovation then. Please advise as to where you are seeing innovation from Intel? It is definitely not in their desktop or mobile (*cough* Atom) product lines...

 

[Abwx]

Not horrible, but the real tell will be this quarter when they don't have Christmas sales to buoy them.

They will have a replacement , the chinese ban on consoles
was lifted starting from 01/06/2014.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Lets stick to innovation then. Please advise as to where you are seeing innovation from Intel? It is definitely not in their desktop or mobile (*cough* Atom) product lines...

Are you saying they dont come out with better products that improve in about all metrics? If you understand such a hint

 

[Slomo4shO]

Are you saying they dont come out with better products that improve in about all metrics? If you understand such a hint

You mean like the 5-10% performance boost and practically equal power consumption seen in Ivy to Haswell on the Desktop similar to AMDs latest marginal gains? Yes, 10x the R&D budget for the same marginal results... :whiste:

 

[Haserath]

Lets stick to innovation then. Please advise as to where you are seeing innovation from Intel? It is definitely not in their desktop or mobile (*cough* Atom) product lines...

So they make the biggest battery life improvement in Haswell and do to atom what they did with Core 2, and you don't call that innovation?

It requires massive R&D to improve faster than the competition, and Intel is doing that, even if they don't seem to be doing it quite right to you or me.

 

[el etro]

Consoles makes revenue. The console revenue was 500-550M$ or so. But all the hyped income didnt materialize.

500-550M with low profit. Consoles is much of a showcase/propaganda for the APU tech, too.

 

[Slomo4shO]

So they make the biggest battery life improvement in Haswell and do to atom what they did with Core 2, and you don't call that innovation?

It requires massive R&D to improve faster than the competition, and Intel is doing that, even if they don't seem to be doing it quite right to you or me.

ARM, which has revolutionized mobile computing, shows great strides in performance and power consumption each generation and their quarterly R&D budget has yet to surpass $90 million per quarter. Intel's atom processors still can't compete directly with ARM based processors and their only success with Haswell was their notebook CPUs (ultrabooks anyone?). The fact that Intel is providing billions to phone and tablet manufacturers to product products based on their chips is already a testament to the worthiness of such products.

 

[jj109]

ARM, which has revolutionized mobile computing, shows great strides in performance and power consumption each generation and their quarterly R&D budget has yet to surpass $90 million per quarter. Intel's atom processors still can't compete directly with ARM based processors and their only success with Haswell was their notebook CPUs (ultrabooks anyone?). The fact that Intel is providing billions to phone and tablet manufacturers to product products based on their chips is already a testament to the worthiness of such products.

What are you trying to accomplish by comparing the R&D budget of an IP provider against a vertically integrated corporation? Why don't we add Qualcomm ($2B) and TSMC ($2.5B) CAPEX to that and then compare again?

 

[Torn Mind]

You mean like the 5-10% performance boost and practically equal power consumption seen in Ivy to Haswell on the Desktop similar to AMDs latest marginal gains? Yes, 10x the R&D budget for the same marginal results... :whiste:

Haswell's power consumption is quite obvious on laptops. You just don't double battery life with a CPU...until you do. Most of Haswell's gains are at lower clockspeeds than the 3.4-3.5 on the higher end desktop i5s and i7s, clockspeeds commonly used in notebooks.

 

[positivedoppler]

That was a pretty poor guidance. -16% next quarter. Did AMD lose even more market share to Intel? That tells me despite the hype Kaveri isn't selling that well or is not projected to sale that well.
Soon all the Intel Fanboys who trash AMD will get their wish, but be prepare to pay $300 for a celeron when AMD goes under or exit the PC business completely.

 

[Torn Mind]

What are you trying to accomplish by comparing the R&D budget of an IP provider against a vertically integrated corporation? Why don't we add Qualcomm ($2B) and TSMC ($2.5B) CAPEX to that and then compare again?

Custom CPU design and a fab to make those chips. :thumbsup:

 

[Torn Mind]

That was a pretty poor guidance. -16% next quarter. Did AMD lose even more market share to Intel? That tells me despite the hype Kaveri isn't selling that well or is not projected to sale that well.
Soon all the Intel Fanboys who trash AMD will get their wish, but be prepare to pay $300 for a celeron when AMD goes under or exit the PC business completely.

Monopolies do not have an unlimited ceiling to charge their custormers because UNITS SOLD(one of the components of profit) will plummet. Computers are not like water in which the demand is higly inelastic and you have to have it for survival. The 3770K is $300 even though it has no competition. Why? Surely Intel could charge $400, $500, $1000, but then they'll have too many quad cores with Hyperthreading sitting in their packages unused with NO MONEY COMING IN.

$300 for a Celeron would utterly destroy the profitablity of Dell, HP, and the like because consumers WON'T BUY such a system when average Joe is demanding $300-$400 for the WHOLE system or they threaten to stay with what they have or try out an IPad for $500.

 

[VirtualLarry]

but be prepare to pay $300 for a celeron when AMD goes under or exit the PC business completely.

Please no. I don't want to go back to the bad old days of Pentium II pricing.

 

[positivedoppler]

Please no. I don't want to go back to the bad old days of Pentium II pricing.

I think it will happen. So many people here really hate on AMD without realizing they're the only ones keeping Intel honest once Cyrix went under. If not for the Athlon, everyone probably be running a P4 right now and paying $2,000 for it.

I guess AMD can only gasp for air for so long struggling against big blue. Arm is really not a threat to the desktop market so yeah, Intel can charge whatever they want once AMD is done.

I remember my good old AMD duron processor, it had a good run. My 1.4 ghz THunderbird at the time was also better than anything Intel had to offer. Shame in the real world of David vs Goliath, Goliath squashes David. I don't think AMD can survive this onslaught of Intel paying people to take atoms off their hands.

 

[monstercameron]

I think it will happen. So many people here really hate on AMD without realizing they're the only ones keeping Intel honest once Cyrix went under. If not for the Athlon, everyone probably be running a P4 right now and paying $2,000 for it.

I guess AMD can only gasp for air for so long struggling against big blue. Arm is really not a threat to the desktop market so yeah, Intel can charge whatever they want once AMD is done.

amd has been nurturing a partnership with arm for quite a while, if they do bow leave the x86 market, arm is where it will go.

 

[Torn Mind]

I think it will happen. So many people here really hate on AMD without realizing they're the only ones keeping Intel honest once Cyrix went under. If not for the Athlon, everyone probably be running a P4 right now and paying $2,000 for it.

I guess AMD can only gasp for air for so long struggling against big blue. Arm is really not a threat to the desktop market so yeah, Intel can charge whatever they want once AMD is done.

Intel already had issues with excess supply, which led to the delay of launching Ivy Bridge. If they want more problems waiting for inventory to clear out, they can do that and have more silicon collect dust.

 

[positivedoppler]

amd has been nurturing a partnership with arm for quite a while, if they do bow leave the x86 market, arm is where it will go.

But what arm product will AMD sale? Apple and Samsung command the high end of the tablet market. Intel is paying everybody off to use them in the mid to low end while they just eat the loss.

AMD's only hope is the arm server market in the 2nd half of 2014, but one arm server has already gone under being unable to compete against Intel.

At the end of the day, I usually see people posting on this board how much AMD sucks and how much they hate AMD product and how amazingly wonderful Intel is.