AMD Q415 results

[Phynaz]

Taxes. CPUs are really expensive in Europe, and the VAT makes them even more so. Since peple don't want to feel like second class consumers they have convinced themselves that what they can afford is the best.

There's also some hangover from AMD having factories in Europe at one time. That's a really big deal because there really isn't a big tech industry in Europe. AMDs factories were held up as the heralding of the tech industry in Europe.

The next 50 posts will now be from people defending the Europeon tech industry. I'll bet within three posts somebody says it's xxx bullion euros or something.

 

[itsmydamnation]

AMD will sell the same server die as a desktop chip, so the validation process will be the same.
.

Server will need more validation, you have the MCM/imposer/distributed memory contoller logic that wont be on the desktop. You also then have all the NUMA/transport protocol validation as well.

Those whole of system parts can/are the hardest to test.

 

[mrmt]

Server will need more validation, you have the MCM/imposer/distributed memory contoller logic that wont be on the desktop. You also then have all the NUMA/transport protocol validation as well.

Those whole of system parts can/are the hardest to test.

It will be a single die, if something pops on the server parts and you have to redesign something you'll have to revalidate the entire client die. I doubt AMD would take that risky approach.

 

[Dresdenboy]

Here's an interesting question: Why does it seem that Eastern Europe and Russia are so heavily over-represented in the ranks of the ADF? It's been 25 years since the Soviet Union collapsed, so you'd think they'd get over their fondness of crappy electronics.

Or is it that AMD's lousy performance reminds them of the old Elektronika computers from their childhood and AMD's consistent party line (which always stays the same regardless of actual conditions in reality) is comforting somehow?

KR1810VM86 was stronk chip.

I'm not sure, if some wouldn't react this way, if not provoked by clear signs of basking in reflected glory, causing behaviour of dominance and arrogance based on picking supporting product aspects while leaving out others. However it offers interesting psychological aspects of social interaction to watch. Please don't stop.

BTW, when Athlon came out, there was no sign of it in Moscow, neither in shops, nor in some significant amount on magazines, while magazines in Germany and US were all over it. You could see !!! everywhere instead.

 

[Kuiva maa]

AMD will sell the same server die as a desktop chip, so the validation process will be the same.

You have a point when you say that Zen will be more competitive as a HEDT chip, if it can reach the performance levels for this segment. Servers is all about efficiency, because low efficiency kills TCO, and platform features, I don't think AMD will bring anything close to the Purley platform and desktop users are more than willing to throw away efficiency in the name of raw performance, and even if the performance is inferior AMD can win consumers on price. They have a lot more of latitude on the desktop market.

This was indeed proven with their CMT designs. On server and mobile where efficiency truly matters , BD family got annihilated but on desktop and system builders ,FX chips sold moderately well due to pricing (vendors still introduce new AM3+ boards in 2016).

 

[mrmt]

This was indeed proven with their CMT designs. On server and mobile where efficiency truly matters , BD family got annihilated but on desktop and system builders ,FX chips sold moderately well due to pricing (vendors still introduce new AM3+ boards in 2016).

I wouldn't put FX and success in the same phrase in any situation. AMD went from selling 1.3 billion in CPUs per quarter to roughly 300 million, and gross margins went from 45% to low 30's. The fact that they are still able to sell the thing isn't surprising, it wasn't a bottom of the barrel product while it was launched and it has become a bottom of the barrel product.

Plus there's good reason for releasing AM3+ boards this time, AMD is bound by the WSA, so we can count with at least one more year of trash silicon being manufactured by AMD, and if Zen isn't everything AMD is saying it is, there will be a good number of deals well into 2017.

 

[Arachnotronic]

BTW, when Athlon came out, there was no sign of it in Moscow, neither in shops, nor in some significant amount on magazines, while magazines in Germany and US were all over it. You could see !!! everywhere instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0hU0OYvCI

 

[Kuiva maa]

I wouldn't put FX and success in the same phrase in any situation. AMD went from selling 1.3 billion in CPUs per quarter to roughly 300 million, and gross margins went from 45% to low 30's. The fact that they are still able to sell the thing isn't surprising, it wasn't a bottom of the barrel product while it was launched and it has become a bottom of the barrel product.

Plus there's good reason for releasing AM3+ boards this time, AMD is bound by the WSA, so we can count with at least one more year of trash silicon being manufactured by AMD, and if Zen isn't everything AMD is saying it is, there will be a good number of deals well into 2017.

As I said, AMD got almost wiped out on server and mobile which explains big part of their declining numbers. Now current FX CPUs are antiquated and dirt cheap, but they do still sell, this is what I said and nothing about success . Board manufacturers are not affected by any WSA, they offer boards with modern features because there is an actual demand for that kind of cheap combo.Else they would have simply kept offering their 2012 AM3+ designs only. This jives with your own remark that AMD has more space to move product on desktop for the reasons you mentioned.
To be perfectly honest I feel their whole APU strategy is pointless. And I realized this after seeing legions of people buying laptops with Intel HD 3000 and 4000 graphics just to game whereas a simple trinity or richland based unit would have been orders of magnitude better and often cheaper. AMD is not even considered by the crowds that could benefit from good iGPU, there is no way in hell they can compete in such a landscape no matter how good zen APUs will be. They should focus fully on their pure CPUs.

 

[mrmt]

Board manufacturers are not affected by any WSA, they offer boards with modern features because there is an actual demand for that kind of cheap combo.Else they would have simply kept offering their 2012 AM3+ designs only. This jives with your own remark that AMD has more space to move product on desktop for the reasons you mentioned.

The WSA ensures that there will be supply of FX parts for quite some time, and AMD will have to get rid of it, even if they have to go below costs to do so. This is great news for bargain hunters and AMD fans, and certainly some MB OEM was meant to exploit that.

 

[Dresdenboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0hU0OYvCI

Hehe, I remember that well.

Wait, my point about Moscow supports svenge again... just the other way round.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Hehe, I remember that well.

I loved that commercial

 

[DrMrLordX]

The WSA ensures that there will be supply of FX parts for quite some time, and AMD will have to get rid of it, even if they have to go below costs to do so. This is great news for bargain hunters and AMD fans, and certainly some MB OEM was meant to exploit that.

Is that certain? I'm not sure that the WSA instructs AMD as to what they must do with the wafers that they take. I'm not even sure it specifies exactly from which fabs they must take the wafers.

Even if they are stuck with wafers from fabs tooled for 32nm SOI, couldn't they use them for chipsets or something? If I recall, most of their chipsets in the recent past have been 65nm or maybe 40nm?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Is that certain? I'm not sure that the WSA instructs AMD as to what they must do with the wafers that they take. I'm not even sure it specifies exactly from which fabs they must take the wafers.

Even if they are stuck with wafers from fabs tooled for 32nm SOI, couldn't they use them for chipsets or something? If I recall, most of their chipsets in the recent past have been 65nm or maybe 40nm?

The next AMD chipset is made by ASMedia and it will be on a 55nm process, AFAIK.

 

[DrMrLordX]

55nm huh, hmm. Guess that's better than relying on all those old 65nm fabs. Maybe! But yeah ASMedia is doing their chipset design now, and I think they may have farmed out memory controller design too. Or at least they did for Kaveri and Carrizo.

 

[mrmt]

Is that certain? I'm not sure that the WSA instructs AMD as to what they must do with the wafers that they take. I'm not even sure it specifies exactly from which fabs they must take the wafers.

Even if they are stuck with wafers from fabs tooled for 32nm SOI, couldn't they use them for chipsets or something? If I recall, most of their chipsets in the recent past have been 65nm or maybe 40nm?

Certainly not, but unless AMD starts to manufacture PCHs for Intel chips they need to sell CPUs in order to sell chipsets.

 

[itsmydamnation]

It will be a single die, if something pops on the server parts and you have to redesign something you'll have to revalidate the entire client die. I doubt AMD would take that risky approach.

either you miss understand me or you make no sense .

based off the current "rumor/understanding/AMD slides/Linked in profiles etc.

Yes it will be a "single die", the single die is an 8 core Zen chip. The server chip will be upto 32cores with 4x8 core zen chips on a imposser. The SOC will under go validation all the way upto the complete 8 core chip. At this point the Consumer product is released, validation of the multi die Server SOC's then takes place/ continues, this covers the addition of distributed memory controllers/ on imposer interconnects and the inter socket interconnects/protocols.

If there is a bug found in the Server SOC parts that can't be fixed with a metal spin then thats not a big deal to the consumer product, they continue to manufacture that Chip while bring up a new stepping for the server part. When the server part is completely validated they swap all manufacturing to the new stepping.

This is the LOW RISK approach, because you getting revenue and ROI as early as possible, this is exactly what Intel did with Nehelam, C0 to consumer first, then D0 for servers and switch consumer to D0 . D0 took ~6 months longer to market then C0.

Ask yourself why would AMD not release a x86 Server Part if it was ready? The answer is they wouldn't they need revenue and GP now.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Certainly not, but unless AMD starts to manufacture PCHs for Intel chips they need to sell CPUs in order to sell chipsets.

14nm/28nm CPU, 32nm chipset.

Though as indicated above, it looks like their chipsets will be 55nm, so . . . yeah.

Not really sure what GF is going to try to do with all that 32nm fab capacity.

 

[turtile]

Certainly not, but unless AMD starts to manufacture PCHs for Intel chips they need to sell CPUs in order to sell chipsets.

Won't the Zen APU have everything on chip (14nm) anyway?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Won't the Zen APU have everything on chip (14nm) anyway?

Not if they use AM4.

 

[NTMBK]

Won't the Zen APU have everything on chip (14nm) anyway?

All the important stuff. Legacy junk like SATA will be relegated to a chipset.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Maybe easier this way:

Assume Zen APU is like Zen CPU.

FM3 is renamed to AM4 in case you wonder.

 

[el etro]

Maybe easier this way:

Assume Zen APU is like Zen CPU.

FM3 is renamed to AM4 in case you wonder.

About time to integrate SB in the CPU. Saves a bunch of watts, consumer saves a few bucks.

 

[NTMBK]

About time to integrate SB in the CPU. Saves a bunch of watts, consumer saves a few bucks.

Nah, southbridge is pin-limited on any reasonably modern process- as in, they can't shrink it any further, as they need enough physical space for all the pins. Just put a few PCIe pins on the main SoC, and have a southbridge to provide things like SATA, parallel ports, Firewire, and whatever other legacy junk you might need for a desktop platform. It's not needed for mobile, so you can just re-use the PCIe lanes for something else.

 

[Abwx]

All the important stuff. Legacy junk like SATA will be relegated to a chipset.

The APU still has USB and SATA ports, the chipset is to extend the I/Os for DT uses, besides a separate chispset allow to update MBs I/Os wihout having to redesign the APU own I/Os, that is, releasing a new model just because of generic connectivity evolution.

 

[AtenRa]

Even for a desktop 2x SATA ports are enough for the vast majority of users. This will make OEM Slim PCs save a few bucks from the motherboard and enable a cheaper SSF system.
And if you want more HDDs storage, an external 2.5" USB3.1 HDD or even SSD (2TBs price starting to fall) will be more than enough again for the vast majority of users.