AMD Radeon 7000-Series 28nm (Southern Islands) | 7990 7970 7870 7770 | Discussion

[apoppin]

i think AMD fans will pick fault with anything that doesn't lavish praise on their products.

That's why i am here very rarely - besides having my own forum.

IF *this* is an example of me being bitter, you guys who think so, are full of it

The most interesting thing about this launch is that it appears that Tahiti’s HD 7970 may be short-lived. AMD’s 28nm yields are known to not be great and the specifications of the new GPU indicate that something strange is going on. The chip itself is quite complex with 4.3 billion transistors but its core only runs at a very conservative 925MHz. Most telling is that its performance is not that great except in DX11 games and especially in heavily tessellated scenarios – only about 25% faster than a GTX 580 overall.

We'll know tomorrow if my sources were accurate or not. If not, i won't use them again. If so, then logic tells you there is a respin coming pretty soon.

Please link. By the way, I do think Charlie's words were too harsh.

My friends. i know many tech journalists. He is what i got in an email from one journalist

Comprehensive, but still short enough to quickly digest


Don't see any inaccuracy's really, although I didn't know they were aiming for 1GHz. The massive increase in transistors does make you wonder, if they had just used vliw4 and doubled the sp.'s, they would have needed roughly the same amount of transistors… So the focus is a lot on gpgpu

Anyway, i got to finish two articles before Friday. i'd love to stay and discuss but i have my own forum to take care of

apoppin out

Peace and aloha

 

[RussianSensation]

Guys, you are all talking about the 7970 and its price comapred to the 580.... But don't forget that seeing the latest leaks the 7950 AND the 7870 will be faster or equal to the 580 (the fastest of the competition) also... In what price range should they fall? Are we really expecting 580like performance for <200$ as some apparently expect?

:thumbsup: You took the words straight out of my mouth. Why would AMD price HD7870 for $199, but release a 25-30&#37; faster HD7950 for a whopping $449? That's a huge price gap in the line-up. What are they going to sell between $199 and $449 then?

100% performance increase over a 2 yr old card for reasonable money.

Ok, but the same could have been said of your HD6850 for those of us who upgraded from $150-175 HD4890 or GTX260 216, etc. HD6850 was not a worthwhile upgrade if I wanted to double my performance level. In fact, I had to wait until HD6950 dropped to $230 or so before I could get about 75% more performance over an HD4890. And next time, I'll probably have to wait another 2 years or longer before I can double the performance of an HD6970 for $230. Since so far it's only been 1 year since I got the 6950, I shouldn't be expecting a card 75-100% faster for $230-250; and I am not.

Since HD6850 came out on October 21-22, 2010. Unless you bought it on the first day of release, it's been barely more than 1 year for your videocard. So even by your own definition, you shouldn't expect a card 2x faster than HD6850 for similar price.

You can't expect to get 2x the performance exactly every 2 years, not when it's harder and harder to shrink to lower manufacturing nodes approaching sub-atomic levels. This is especially true when we are on the transition to 28nm stage, where wafer costs are much higher, yields are much lower than 40nm, and demand greatly outstrips supply for these new chips.

I am sure GTX275/280/285/HD4890 users waited 2 years + before there were any cards that would give them 75% more performance for $250-300.

It's a response to the post directly above mine from Pacman, who seems to be activating his troll mode, thinking AMD is set for fail since these cards so expensive. We've been trying to tell him this is quite the norm (with no success), premium part, premium pricing.

Got it. My bad.

 

[Arkadrel]

Personally I hope AMD doesnt give you a card, Apoppin.

Id have doubts youd actually bench it in fair terms (or report them so).
Youd most likely only bench in games you found that favored nvidia cards, and then call it a day.

And find some way to spin it really negativly at the same time.

 

[dust]

Wow the "preview" sounds a lot like a semi-accurate article. Has Charlie been coaching appopin?

 

[AdamK47]

And yes, i have 3.0 PCIe platform - but it won't be necessary for 7970 .. and probably not necessary for 7990.

Why wouldn't you want to test it?

 

[Jionix]

IF *this* is an example of me being bitter, you guys who think so, are full of it

I think the "bitter" part comes more from your absolute assertations that are generally negative (and yet, you have no solid proof), and also the very tabloid-esque headline you used. You don't even have a 7970, yet you "expose" it. Expose it as what? "A short-lived video card". You have no solid ground to print those proclaimations as fact. Yet, you did..

Yes, it sounds bitter as hell.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Personally I hope AMD doesnt give you a card, Apoppin.

Id have doubts youd actually bench it in fair terms (or report them so).
Youd most likely only bench in games you found that favored nvidia cards, and then call it a day.

And find some way to spin it really negativly at the same time.

What the hell is wrong with you?

If someone handed you a 7000 series card and said review it you would review it.

I know i would but if the card is pci 3.0 compliant then i am out of the running cause of my h67 motherboard.

Apoppin isn't gonna be the only one reviewing the card and usually i cross reference numbers in about 3 reviews before i purchase a new series....

So who pissed in your cheerios?

 

[Arkadrel]

So who pissed in your cheerios?

Appopin did, he bashes Charlie but acts alot like him.
Apparently the irony is lost on him.

 

[Ares1214]

I think the "bitter" part comes more from your absolute assertations that are generally negative (and yet, you have no solid proof), and also the very tabloid-esque headline you used. You don't even have a 7970, yet you "expose" it. Expose it as what? "A short-lived video card". You have no solid ground to print those proclaimations as fact. Yet, you did..

Yes, it sounds bitter as hell.

To be honest I agree. I mean, before a card is released, there is usually little to no negative info about it since everybody is trying to hype it up and Nvidia/AMD are releasing grossly overestimated performance charts. So to come to a negative conclusion about a card that nobody even has takes a very vivid imagination. I mean the 6970 was supposed to be 30-50% faster than the GTX 480 from all the hype right before it, and it turned about being released as a mediocre sidegrade. I'd say criticize the card once you get it, not criticize it because you didn't get it.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Tomorrow is just the 7970 right? When will the NDA lift on 7950 and 7870's?

 

[RussianSensation]

Personally I hope AMD doesnt give you a card, Apoppin.

And find some way to spin it really negativly at the same time.

It's good to see varying opinions, and refreshing to see someone not go bananas over the projected 25-30&#37; performance increase (assuming it's accurate). But how was that 25-30% figure derived? It seems the 25-30% figure is the result of adding older DX9 games into the mix. Fair enough, but does this matter to someone buying an HD7970 over GTX580?

I am sure if a reviewer added older, less demanding games such as Woflenstein, Serious Sam 1/2, World in Conflict, Resident Evil 5, Far Cry 2 etc. then it would be unlikely to see 40-60% increase over a GTX580. In that case, the 25-30% performance might be correct, but is this average really relevant?

For instance, if HD7970 is 40-60% faster in demanding games such as BF3, Metro 2033, Witcher 2, Crysis 2, Shogun 2, doesn't that matter more? I mean not many people are going to spend $500 on a new card to play 3-4 year old games at 100-150 fps. To me right now, going from 30 fps in Crysis 2 to 50 fps matters a lot more than going from 115 fps in RE5 to 230 fps.

I made this point when HD5870 was first tested by TechPowerup. The 5870's average performance initially wasn't that impressive over HD4890/GTX285. But look at newer games -- it smokes those older cards.

A lot of newer games will use Frostbyte 2 engine for example. So the performance advantage in BF3 frankly matters more than testing 10 older games, which modern cards play perfectly fine already. To some people going from 33 fps in BF3 at 2560x1600 on a GTX580 to 50 fps on the HD7970 might be worth it alone to sell the GTX580.

Now if HD7970 is only 20-30% faster in DX11 games ONLY if you enable extreme Tessellation, that's another story entirely. In that case, apoppin's negative preview would be justified.

Source

"The picture reveals a card with a red PCB, which means that this is an early sample. We know the retail versions have a black PCB, so this is not the final design. This is confirmed by the fact that there are two 6-pin connectors, but we know that the final version of the card has both 8-pin and 6-pin PCIe connectors. This picture does show the AMD Radeon HD 7970 single-GPU reference board uses a digital-PWM power design. There also appears to be CPL-made single-phase PWM chokes and Volterra-made regulators. Not everything is digital though as there is still some analog power seen on the PCB."

 

[skipsneeky2]

To much nerd raging,one would think this article was about the second coming of Jesus but no a video card series.

Me i am looking for cards in the same price points as the current radeon series with their respectable model replacements like the 7970>6970 and 7950>6950 with respectable performance gains with the same or lower power consumption.

The performance of the 7970 at $500 if that's the suggested retail price should be 30&#37; faster then a gtx580 then it would be worth it anything less and it will more then likely be a hard sell.

More interested in the 7950 myself

 

[arkcom]

That's why i am here very rarely - besides having my own forum.

Really? You have nearly 35,000 posts. You're here spamming your site all the time.

 

[Arkadrel]

I agree RussianSensation, performance should matter in the latest and greatest.
Testing 3year old games ect is a waste, as is testing at less than 1920x resolution.

 

[Zargon]

Why wouldn't you want to test it?

they are supposed to be backwards compatible so it shouldn't matter what PCIE it is

 

[skipsneeky2]

I agree RussianSensation, performance should matter in the latest and greatest.
Testing 3year old games ect is a waste.

Original Crysis still holds true as one of the 4 year old games worthy of using for benching.

I think techpowerup is the site using mostly 4 year titles i love how they include one of my favorite titles UT3 but every review of a card proves all you need is a 5670 and your playing at 1080p at 60fps yet they test these monstor cards its funny as hell with some showing off 150+ fps.

 

[guskline]

Ladies and Gentlemen: Funny point. Did you see what machine AMD used as its Primary Benchmark Test bed? An Intel SB-E 3960X! The AMD Bulldozer 8150X was listed as a Secondary machine for Eyefinity testing. CEO Rory should promote the GPU team to develop the CPUs.

 

[Arkadrel]

The only thing I dont like about TechpowerUp is they test in 1280x resolutions ect.... who games at that? and it goes into the overall avg. of card performance.

Normally that wouldnt be a issue, but for some weird reason low ressolutions seem to favor nvidia hardware. And it screws the overall card performance charts, in a nvidia direction, dispite no one playing games at those low resolutions.

 

[nanaki333]

wow.. i haven't looked up anything on the new 7970 since last month. fire up this thread and it's coming out tomorrow? hope i can still get one.

 

[skipsneeky2]

The only thing I dont like about TechpowerUp is they test in 1280x resolutions ect.... who games at that? and it goes into the overall avg. of card performance.

Normally that wouldnt be a issue, but for some weird reason low ressolutions seem to favor nvidia hardware. And it screws the overall card performance charts, in a nvidia direction, dispite no one playing games at those low resolutions.

Only titles worth a damn on techpowerup are crysis and BC2 and i question the legitimacy of BC2 now.

BC2 used to be demanding but my i3 2100 and 6790 play it at 1600x1200 high with 4x msaa and no hbao with 60fps average its a joke...

Crysis still is a interesting title for benching but i doubt many people can justify a gpu purchase based off performance it gives a 4 year old title...doubt i will give techpowerup even a glance when their reviews come in.

 

[RussianSensation]

Original Crysis still holds true as one of the 4 year old games worthy of using for benching.

Ya, Crysis and Warhead are the only 2 games I'd care to see from the older games selection because you still can't get 60 fps in those on a GTX580/6970. If older games are tested, a separate review should be done for those at 2560x1600 with Super-Sampling or perhaps test older games in Eyefinity. Or even a section with Crysis, Oblivion, Half-Life 2, GTAIV performance with mods would be awesome.

 

[nitromullet]

wow.. i haven't looked up anything on the new 7970 since last month. fire up this thread and it's coming out tomorrow? hope i can still get one.

As far as I understand it, the NDA for 7970 lifts tomorrow so we'll get benchmarks from the better known review sites (it looks like smaller/second tier sites didn't get one), but actual card availability for 7970 and 7950 looks like it will be in Jan.

 

[blastingcap]

I have a solution for this, buy a HD 7970 now and then sell it when GTX 680 comes out :awe:

Lol :awe:

 

[RussianSensation]

Lol :awe:

3 x 23" 5760x1080 Eyefinity | Sapphire HD6850

How?

 

[skipsneeky2]

BF3 is prob the most popular game this season many 7000 series card purchases will more then likely be based off how they perform with BF3.

So review sites stop reviewing cod4 ut3 farcry 2 and review BF3 and other newer titles or so help me god i will make my own review site and start reviewing cards with such titles as...

BF2
UT99
ut2003
0t2004
doom 95
counterstrike source

I will do this too don't doubt me i will use all the current cards even tri sli gtx580s with max settings!