AMD Radeon HD 9970 Specifications Leaked – Twice as fast as GTX 780 (ChipLoco rumor)

[BallaTheFeared]

The point Balla keeps missing is that if a reference 290X is say 7-12% faster than a reference 780, then after-market 780s will make up 7-12% easily but guess what after-market 290X cards should also come with higher clocks. We are just going in circles which is why in reviews it makes sense to use reference stock vs. stock, after-market 780 vs. after-market 290X and max oc vs. max oc.

If AMD never releases a single after-market 290X card, then by all means we can only use reference 290X cards in reviews. There is nothing wrong with using after-market 780s in a review but insisting on ignoring the existence of after-market 290X is the most biased thing I've read on the forums in a while especially since HOF, EVGA Classy and Lightning 780s cost more than $649. I am pretty sure 290X Lightning, Asus DCU, etc. will come clocked faster than a reference 290X.

What are you talking about?

7970 GHz isn't a reference card first and foremost.

Secondly nobody said use aftermarket 780s but not aftermarket 290X cards. Furthermore they are products on the market for anyone to purchase, and as stated many quality aftermarket 780s are the same exact price of the reference cards.

Lastly AMD doesn't make aftermarket cards, neither does Nvidia. In fact they generally don't even make cards. :\

 

[Saylick]

The point Balla keeps missing is that if a reference 290X is say 7-12% faster than a reference 780, then after-market 780s will make up 7-12% easily but guess what after-market 290X cards should also come with higher clocks. We are just going in circles which is why in reviews it makes sense to use reference stock vs. stock, after-market 780 vs. after-market 290X and max oc vs. max oc.

If AMD never releases a single after-market 290X card, then by all means we can only use reference 290X cards in reviews. There is nothing wrong with using after-market 780s in a review but insisting on ignoring the existence of after-market 290X is the most biased thing I've read on the forums in a while especially since HOF, EVGA Classy and Lightning 780s cost more than $649. I am pretty sure 290X Lightning, Asus DCU, etc. will come clocked faster than a reference 290X.

I honestly don't think that he is missing the point. I'm getting the impression that he has a firm, but stubborn, belief that graphics cards should be review against their current market competition, with price as the basis. Therefore, using this thought process, because aftermarket 780s are only a couple of dollars more expensive than a reference 780, they are deemed acceptable to use in a review as a replacement for reference 780s, even if it means you pit them against reference models.

EDIT: Just read his last post. Looks like I'm spot on.

All the other posts he's made seems to defend this line of thinking (in my opinion), some of which are full of logical fallacies. But I digress; this kind of post isn't exactly taking the moral high ground.

With that aside, I am really hoping for some good performance numbers out of 290X. If the rumors are true - as if I haven't seen enough of this exact phrase and it's many variations - then we are looking at Titan-esque performance with potentially better OC potential.

Ryan's 780 SC ACX review concludes that the reference 780 and the ACX top out at roughly the same speed, which is due to throttling. The performance looks to be in-line with the 290X rumored performance (very intriguing time to release a review of this card, don't you think...? :sneaky, except it does it with a higher frequency. If 1020 MHz for a 290X is equivalent to a 780 at ~1100 MHz 780, it looks like we might have a winner in the 290X.

 

[raghu78]

What are you talking about?

7970 GHz isn't a reference card first and foremost.

Secondly nobody said use aftermarket 780s but not aftermarket 290X cards. Furthermore they are products on the market for anyone to purchase, and as stated many quality aftermarket 780s are the same exact price of the reference cards.

Lastly AMD doesn't make aftermarket cards, neither does Nvidia. In fact they generally don't even make cards. :\

Nvidia and AMD manufacture reference designs. they might sub contract and get it manufactured by a company like Foxconn. But its still their design which serves as a reference for AIB partners and for waterblock manufacturers for design of ref water blocks.

 

[blackened23]

I honestly don't think that he is missing the point. I'm getting the impression that he has a firm, but stubborn, belief that graphics cards should be review against their current market competition, with price as the basis. Therefore, using this thought process, because aftermarket 780s are only a couple of dollars more expensive than a reference 780, they are deemed acceptable to use in a review as a replacement for reference 780s, even if it means you pit them against reference models.

The bottom line is that comparing a stock clocked card to an overclocked one is not a fair comparison. People can complain about this all they want so their favorite company can look good on paper, but launch reviews will be stock vs. stock clocks. That's all there is to it. The reviews will be done with stock reference 780s.

You don't compare overclock to stock and somehow pretend that doesn't muddy the waters. The implications of this are obvious - AMD could send their golden sample overclocked cards and pretend it's the reference model. Give me a break.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The bottom line is that comparing a stock clocked card to an overclocked one is not a fair comparison. People can complain about this all they want so their favorite company can look good on paper, but launch reviews will be stock vs. stock clocks. That's all there is to it.

Luckily you can neither predict the future, nor give professional reviews.


Boost 2.0 makes the stock vs stock comparison apples to oranges, unless they're going to artificially increase or decrease the noise level of 290X to exactly meet the specifications of Nvidia of course. Still we haven't seen if AMD can even produce a reference blower card that will hit shelves at this TDP level... Or if it will be like the ill fated GHz reference model that broke noise records and never saw the light of day.

Then do we go cat and mouse, it's reference speeds but no reference design just like GHz, unfair to compare then?

You don't compare overclock to stock and somehow pretend that doesn't muddy the waters. The implications of this are obvious - AMD could send their golden sample overclocked cards and pretend it's the reference model. Give me a break.

AMD already did similar when they released a 7970 GHz and were unable to produce a reference design for AIBs.

There was no issue at that time in our community about comparing the factory overclocked non reference GHz to the stock reference 680.

Funny how things have changed though, wasn't even questioned by anyone even the notorious "Nvidia" side.

 

[Saylick]

The bottom line is that comparing a stock clocked card to an overclocked one is not a fair comparison. People can complain about this all they want so their favorite company can look good on paper, but launch reviews will be stock vs. stock clocks. That's all there is to it. The reviews will be done with stock reference 780s.

You don't compare overclock to stock and somehow pretend that doesn't muddy the waters. The implications of this are obvious - AMD could send their golden sample overclocked cards and pretend it's the reference model. Give me a break.

QFT.

Imo, the only time OC's should be used in a launch review is when you OC the launched card, in reference form, to use as a means of gaining an idea of how the new card scales with respect to clocks, temperatures, and power draw. Nothing more.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The only thing I care about is the OC performance of each card, so I guess my opinion is in direct opposition to yours where I couldn't give less of a care over what the stock performance of a card is.

If I did care I'd never have bought 470s or 7950s.

Luckily there are reviewers who feel the same way and will overclock both 780s, Titans, 7970s and whatever new gpus come out and compare them in this state.


But let's not confuse the two, aftermarket isn't overclocked.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

The way I wish they set it us is to have once stock vs stock with the early cards, then with the aftermarket cards have an oc vs oc. Because it's only very rarely when you see an non-enthusiast/at-least-competent person buy such a card.

Also compute. That bugs me.

I'm betting on a close but slightly better stock/stock on the 780/290x and a much better oc/oc. AMD tends to set very conservative clocks in case they need to bump it up (like the 7970ghz) so I think with the prev gen getting 800 stock 1200 oc we will be seeing 900 stock 1300 (1400 if lucky) oc. Also, the memory seems crappy, so I think we will see 6-7ghz effective oc. If the 512 bit bus turns out true then dang, and 4gb GDDR5, probably 6 aftermarket. Image the fun you could have with that. 6GB 512-bit bus 1400 core 7ghz memory.
*floats on into dream*

 

[Mastercommander]

It would be better if they could be Crossfired without trouble

 

[3DVagabond]

The point Balla keeps missing is that if a reference 290X is say 7-12% faster than a reference 780, then after-market 780s will make up 7-12% easily but guess what after-market 290X cards should also come with higher clocks. We are just going in circles which is why in reviews it makes sense to use reference stock vs. stock, after-market 780 vs. after-market 290X and max oc vs. max oc.

If AMD never releases a single after-market 290X card, then by all means we can only use reference 290X cards in reviews. There is nothing wrong with using after-market 780s in a review but purposely ignoring the existence of after-market 290X is the most skewed/cherry-picked comparison I've read on the forums in a while especially since HOF, EVGA Classy and Lightning 780s cost more than $649. I am pretty sure 290X Lightning, Asus DCU, etc. will come clocked faster than a reference 290X.

Anyway for GPU enthusiasts, it will hardly make sense to upgrade from a 780 to 290X. Just good to see renewed competition at the high-end between the GPU makers. Now bring on next gen PC games please!

Nowhere did Balla say that aftermarket 290X could be compared to anything. Just aftermarket 780.

 

[3DVagabond]

What are you talking about?

7970 GHz isn't a reference card first and foremost.

Secondly nobody said use aftermarket 780s but not aftermarket 290X cards. Furthermore they are products on the market for anyone to purchase, and as stated many quality aftermarket 780s are the same exact price of the reference cards.

Lastly AMD doesn't make aftermarket cards, neither does Nvidia. In fact they generally don't even make cards. :\

Sites did not use aftermarket 7970GHz cards for comparisons. Nice try.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Sites did not use aftermarket 7970GHz cards for comparisons. Nice try.

Then what are they selling? AMD didn't ship a reference card.

 

[HurleyBird]

Then what are they selling? AMD didn't ship a reference card.

Actually, reference 7970 GHz boards were produced and sold. There aren't as many of them, but they exist.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Actually, reference 7970 GHz boards were produced and sold. There aren't as many of them, but they exist.

Must have been insanely short lived, like blink of an eye duration...

The 7970GE is without question the loudest single-GPU video card we have seen in quite some time, and that’s nothing for AMD to be proud of. Everyone’s limit for noise differs, but when we’re talking about single-GPU cards exceeding 60dB in Metro we have to seriously ponder whether it’s something many gamers would be willing to put up with.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1299387/need-help-finding-a-reference-7970-ghz-edition

 

[atticus14]

I think most review sites will get a kind nudge by nvidia to bench AMD stock vs Nvidia OC, its happened time and time again. I dont mind seeing this if it weren't for the fact that reviewers don't left a finger to even modestly OC a radeon card to see a clock vs clock comparison, it's always blamed on time constraints. THen once the hype is over and nvidia can declare victory, they release the AMD OC reviews a few days or week later.

I really dont care who wins I just want a proper bench of reasonably OC'd cards that 90% of consumers can expect to reach, then I weigh price/performance.

 

[brandonmatic]

Still we haven't seen if AMD can even produce a reference blower card that will hit shelves at this TDP level... Or if it will be like the ill fated GHz reference model that broke noise records and never saw the light of day.

I sure hope MSI brings their "Gaming" line of coolers to AMD. I think those must be the best coolers on the market currently in terms of noise/performance - better than MSI's own Lightning cooler (at least the fans).

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I sure hope MSI brings their "Gaming" line of coolers to AMD. I think those must be the best coolers on the market currently in terms of noise/performance - better than MSI's own Lightning cooler (at least the fans).

Looks like a nv thing only. :/
Realized it's past midnight here. School tomorrow (today) dang.
Adios!

 

[3DVagabond]

Must have been insanely short lived, like blink of an eye duration...



http://www.overclock.net/t/1299387/need-help-finding-a-reference-7970-ghz-edition

Getting a bit off topic aren't you? Now you want to deflect the fact your position was wrong by bringing up the reference cooler.

Here's your reference model tests. They weren't using custom O/C'd cards against reference 680's.
Guru3D
TechPowerUp
HardwareInfo
TweakTown

...Etc. There's plenty more, but I'll just stop with those.

 

[Grooveriding]

When is this Monster unveiled ?!?! Linus from Linustechtips is in Hawaii currently for the reveal event, so I'm assuming the card is dropping this week. This Tuesday ?

 

[raghu78]

When is this Monster unveiled ?!?! Linus from Linustechtips is in Hawaii currently for the reveal event, so I'm assuming the card is dropping this week. This Tuesday ?

wednesday sep 25th at hawaii. 3 pm EDT (12 pm PDT). there is a live webcast from AMD's website. webcast also available on youtube and facebook

http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1855822&highlight=

http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-eventDetails&EventId=5024687

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7344/amd-announces-2014-gpu-product-showcase-webcast-sept-25-3pm-edt

btw this is the Hawaii press reveal event. retail launch will follow in early - mid Oct.

 

[sontin]

Getting a bit off topic aren't you? Now you want to deflect the fact your position was wrong by bringing up the reference cooler.

Here's your reference model tests. They weren't using custom O/C'd cards against reference 680's.
Guru3D
TechPowerUp
HardwareInfo
TweakTown

...Etc. There's plenty more, but I'll just stop with those.

So we ignore now that AMD sent those cards to the reviewer because there were no custom designs...
BTW: The 7970 went on sale in august - nearly 1 1/2 months after the launch.

I guess nothing new on the AMD side. D:

 

[Saylick]

So we ignore now that AMD send these cards to the reviewer because there were no custom designs...
BTW: The 7970 went on sale in august - nearly 1 1/2 months after the launch.

I guess nothing new on the AMD side. D:

Isn't that how it always works? Reviews are sent cards from nVidia or AMD for... you know, reviewing.

As for the 7970 being on sale after the paper launch, this isn't the first instance of a hard launch following a paper launch.

 

[sontin]

Na, that is not the problem. We have here a guy who is rewriting history. At the 7970GHz launch there were no custom designs. No announcement - nothing.

Only after the the cards went on sale in august the first custom designs appeared.

That was different to now. You can buy a custom GTX780 card for the same MSRP.

If you do not see the difference then yes there is nothing left to discuss.

 

[3DVagabond]

So we ignore now that AMD sent those cards to the reviewer because there were no custom designs...
BTW: The 7970 went on sale in august - nearly 1 1/2 months after the launch.

I guess nothing new on the AMD side. D:

Balla was claiming that all of the 7970GHz review cards were custom O/C models that were compared with reference 680's. It wasn't true.

I have no idea what your off topic comment has to do with anything we were discussing.

 

[Imouto]

This is how ridiculous rumors get started by taking things out of context and misinterpreting them.

This thread isn't about a ridiculous rumor anymore. It's just the same people arguing over nothing forever.