AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 and 56 Reviews [*UPDATED* Aug 28]

[ub4ty]

Little bit of anecdotal evidence from an admittedly small sample size. Having worked in PC part sales through the original Bitcoin craze and now this Eth craze I can tell you for certain that the middle men wholesalers absolutely 100% mark up based on the highest price they think they can pass on to actual retailers. This sounds like AMD knew the volume was going to be extremely limited, so they tied in the bundle pricing to loose cards to keep the bigger re-sellers from buying all inventory and holding the price at a higher point. It's simple economics, AMD isn't doing anything shady in the slightest, in fact as was mentioned earlier AMD is actually LOSING more money on the rebates to keep the retail channel from doing absurd mark ups due to limited quantity. The reality that people don't want to accept is that the retail/wholesale channels are extremely greedy and knowing what I know I can say with 100% certainty they don't want people to know how badly they rip off customers during a fiasco like this. If AMD was going to do a super low volume initial launch they really should have done what NVidia does and pick an AIB partner to launch the reference design and control the supply themselves for 2-3 weeks while AIB's make custom designs.

To give an example of what my shop is doing to keep from gouging our customers on graphics cards with the bundle strategy. Our shelf GPU's we have in stock that are in high demand (RX 580, 570, GTX 1060, 1070) are subject to market fluctuations as loose cards, but we get a few in stock that we bundle with new builds at cost as system specials. We make the margin back on other products, but as long as a customer is buying the card to game on with a new PC we'll sell them the card at MSRP (which is usually cost for us right now). What has happened is retailers had X number of bundle pack cards, they saw how fast the solo cards sold out and decided to can the whole bundle, take the cards from those and sell them as loose cards at a higher price (probably because the bundles weren't moving at all due to how much money you had to spend to receive the full savings) The margin was intended to be made up for on bundle cards on the other parts, much like my margins in store are made up for in up sells like RGB lighting kits, custom sleeved cables, water cooling, gaming peripherals or new monitors. Retailers decided to double dip, as in, not take a hit on any margin at all to incentivize more sales because the quantity wasn't enough to justify it, likely cancelling the bundled savings and just deciding to maximize profit from the inventory they had.

TLDR: everyone wants a slice of a pie, retailers are the culprits in price inflation products, this is always true. AMD sells to AIB at x price, AIB marks up X% to make more to wholesale channel, wholesale channel marks up X%, then retailers mark up to literally whatever they think will sell. If people are buying Vega 64 for $750, you can bet it will be priced at $750

Edit: Spelling hard.

And this is exactly why such inefficient non-value added aspects of a distribution channel eventually get put out to pasture. Unbounded greed from individuals who contribute no value at all to producers or consumers except skimming and leeching. It's exactly why the B&M Armageddon happened and exactly why one will occur to formal distribution chains.

People are becoming increasingly aware of who the problem is with incidents like this and its only a matter of time before something is done about it. I guarantee you that this Vega fiasco has only just begun in terms of coverage and investigation. Before its all said and done it will be known exactly who makes what and who marked up what. The real fallout comes after that.

Everyone wants a slice of pie. Some are greedy and given the non-valued added service they provide don't deserve even an ounce of pie. Eventually and for some time myopic businesses always overstep and get beyond greedy... It's at those moment that the shenanigans come to light and whales or new entrants disrupt and sometimes destroy a stale/stagnant/non-value added portion of business.

Quite clearly the only two parties of value are the people producing the product and the people who consume it. Everything else is skimming/leeching. The more consumers are paired with producers and the fat is cut out the better the world and markets. Huge market disruptions have happened before and they'll happen again and again because many groups get lazy and greedy and do nothing but non-value added leeching/skimming. It's a function of nature to cleanse such things out of any system.

 

[ub4ty]

Without a wall of off topic chat go look up the history of 3dfx.

The idiot CEO who caused them to go under from bad decision making or some other understanding?

In November of 1996, former Capcom president Greg Ballard became CEO of 3Dfx. He was considered a marketing man and shifted some focus from development to marketing to solidify 3dfx’s already strong hold on the market. Later this proved to be good in the near term, but at this point the future of the company came into jeopardy.

Seems like a pertinent lesson for the times... Putting lipstick on a pig and mismanaging the business side of a technological company.

 

[PeterScott]

New Review from Hardocp. They delivered the V64 review on NDA day, but the V56 was delayed:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/08/22/amd_radeon_rx_vega_56_video_card_review

TLDR: HardOCP V64 review was quite negative, V56 is quite positive.

 

[ub4ty]

You're talking about a company that;s been bleeding red for what half a decade, probably more? They're on a ventilator & can;t afford to alienate even the middle men. Why do you think their last round of mobile chips, with single channel RAM & no cTDP option, were an unmitigated disaster? You need money to do all these things, as it happens AMD is easily making less money from the GPU than all those middle men combined.

And whose fault is that? Maybe its time to clean house.
Vega is an underperforming, power hungry, ill-marketed fiasco.
This is not what I expect from a division of a company in such a predicament. The lazy business and marketing staff should be on over-drive connecting with their costumer base not being aloft, allowing this idiotic pricing disaster and not being clear w/ their loyal consumer base that they'll need to survive. Miners aren't such people.. They're unstable demand with zero loyalty, likely produce high RMAs, and are a step away from a bubble based collapse. I can't imagine paying people top dollar in a business unit and getting these kinds of results. I'd fire every single last one of them and get a group w/ tenacity to drive my business into the green.

as it happens AMD is easily making less money from the GPU than all those middle men combined.

Now think of what kind of morons you have to have in your business unit such that this occurs. The people who add no value who take no risk are making the lion's share of the profits of your product. Just **** my **** up business OPs. Thank God AMD CPU division isn't ran like this.

Every-time I think about this fiasco I come back to this tweet :
https://twitter.com/nvidiageforce/status/895746289589039104?lang=en

It's like somebody's g/f being texted by her b/f's most hated associate :
Hey, you know your man is a p.o.s and I got the good stuff?
Her replying : Yeah, I know.

Dear AMD,
Team Red/Team Green. Open up infinity fabric to the 3rd party market. Work w/ Nvidia and get a direct hook to the Ryzen CPU complex and make your GPU division decide whether it wants to sink or swim. Nvidia knows how to put non-value added leechers in their supply chain in check and ensure they don't get d***ed around. Your CPU division is actually delivering an impressive product that is pushing the company into the green. Seems like you two would make a nice couple...

 

[ub4ty]

New Review from Hardocp. They delivered the V64 review on NDA day, but the V56 was delayed:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/08/22/amd_radeon_rx_vega_56_video_card_review

TLDR: HardOCP V64 review was quite negative, V56 is quite positive.

A couple of days away from V56 going for sale.. No word from AMD on how they're going to address pricing after a two week long sh** show... 2 more weeks to get the supply levels right. Lets wait and see if the same fiasco occurs come Monday.
$399 was the stated MSRP. $450-$499 is a reasonable window. Lets see what kind of shenanigans occur and what excuses come this time. Twice is the charm.

 

[PeterScott]

A couple of days away from V56 going for sale.. No word from AMD on how they're going to address pricing after a two week long sh** show... 2 more weeks to get the supply levels right. Lets wait and see if the same fiasco occurs come Monday.
$399 was the stated MSRP. $450-$499 is a reasonable window. Lets see what kind of shenanigans occur and what excuses come this time. Twice is the charm.

Considering that most reviewers say the V56 is the one to get, and it seems most people around here with an interest are also seeing the V56 as the better option, and given that it cost just as much to to product a V56, so the margins will be even worse, the situation should be just as bad, at best, and likely much worse.

 

[Rifter]

Considering that most reviewers say the V56 is the one to get, and it seems most people around here with an interest are also seeing the V56 as the better option, and given that it cost just as much to to product a V56, so the margins will be even worse, the situation should be just as bad, at best, and likely much worse.

Given the fact of the power consumption, and the fact that it looses to 1070 when using MSAA. It better be cheaper than a 1070. Hopefully AMD can make that happen.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

Given the fact of the power consumption, and the fact that it looses to 1070 when using MSAA. It better be cheaper than a 1070. Hopefully AMD can make that happen.

Kyle's testing over at HardOCP has the 56 beating the 1070 FE pretty handily even with 4x MSAA turned on in his testing. Jury is still probably out on the head to head, needs to be revisited after partner cards come out and the drivers get ironed out. At this point with 1070 pricing the way it is in retail, 56 is the de facto winner if you can get one at $399 even with a bad reference cooler, and maybe even at $450. At true MSRP it's pretty close around 14% higher price for around 10-13% more performance depending on your game suite.

 

[ub4ty]

Considering that most reviewers say the V56 is the one to get, and it seems most people around here with an interest are also seeing the V56 as the better option, and given that it cost just as much to to product a V56, so the margins will be even worse, the situation should be just as bad, at best, and likely much worse.

True enough. With this realization I have a strategy on how to play the launch and eval the product for my own needs w/o much risk.

 

[ub4ty]

Kyle's testing over at HardOCP has the 56 beating the 1070 FE pretty handily even with 4x MSAA turned on in his testing. Jury is still probably out on the head to head, needs to be revisited after partner cards come out and the drivers get ironed out. At this point with 1070 pricing the way it is in retail, 56 is the de facto winner if you can get one at $399 even with a bad reference cooler, and maybe even at $450. At true MSRP it's pretty close around 14% higher price for around 10-13% more performance depending on your game suite.

I keep hearing everyone mention bad reference cooler... By this measure, are any blower cards good? No server rack mounted GPU has a cooler designs that openly dump air in the case. They are all active or passive blower models w/ external exhaust.... :

All pro cards are this way :

So, i'm confused as to why it is commonly stated that reference coolers are bad? It's a chunk of metal with a fan blowing and exhausting. Do AIB make better blower cards? I've never seen one.

Also, I just noticed something.... Aren't all professional/workstation cards non AIB or a select AIB partner? I've never seen a plethora of AIB for pro cards. The Radeon Instinct (server) and workstation cards come in one flavor made by AMD. So, circling back.. What gives about this b.s about AMD not being able to make an FE styled consumer card sold through them?

 

[Rifter]

Kyle's testing over at HardOCP has the 56 beating the 1070 FE pretty handily even with 4x MSAA turned on in his testing.

While this may be true in a select few games kyle say this on the bottom of page 15 of his review:

"However, when MSAA is being used GTX 1070 takes the lead. It’s very important to look at the settings, MSAA performance seems to favor NVIDIA’s Pascal at the moment versus AMD’s Vega."

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/08/22/amd_radeon_rx_vega_56_video_card_review/15

 

[Ferzerp]

The thing about blower cards is they still work if you really only have the 2 slots of space. Open fan cards will not. The reference cards have to work in every scenario, which locks them in to blowers.

 

[jackstar7]

I keep hearing everyone mention bad reference cooler... By this measure, are any blower cards good? No server rack mounted GPU has a cooler designs that openly dump air in the case. They are all active or passive blower models w/ external exhaust.... :

All pro cards are this way :

So, i'm confused as to why it is commonly stated that reference coolers are bad? It's a chunk of metal with a fan blowing and exhausting. Do AIB make better blower cards? I've never seen one.

Also, I just noticed something.... Aren't all professional/workstation cards non AIB or a select AIB partner? I've never seen a plethora of AIB for pro cards. The Radeon Instinct (server) and workstation cards come in one flavor made by AMD. So, circling back.. What gives about this b.s about AMD not being able to make an FE styled consumer card sold through them?

I really wish some AIBs would try. Still running in an FT-02, I prefer a blower... but I wonder if we're just as whatever the peak of blower design is and no one bothers when they can attach more fans and charge a good mark-up over the base design.

I really would like a better blower, but it seems like the best bet is to move further towards AIO water coolers rather than hoping for some kind of improved fan to be designed.

 

[crashtech]

@ub4ty , reference coolers are "bad" because they generally don't have heat pipes, and because the heatsink radiating area is always smaller, as far as I've seen. So to make up for that, a lot of air has to be blown through them at high loads, which makes them noisy. Noise is not a main consideration for server, and chassis airflow management dictates blower-style or even passive pass-through designs.

 

[ElFenix]

I captured this possibility under :

Their business/marketing/legal staff obviously isn't as sharp as Nvidia or even the AMD CPU group. It shows in ever way across the launch of this product. So, they very well could have neutered any chance they had to wield true force to reign in prices. They've most certainly fumbled every other aspect of the product launch so they could have very well fumbled this.

it isn't necessarily incompetence that could lead to amd agreeing not to competing with its board makers. nvidia is much more important to asus than amd is to asus, and nvidia knows that, so is in a better contractual position to demand things like being able to sell some quantity themselves prior to AIB partner launches. also, amd/ati historically made the boards in house, while nvidia hadn't, so that may have come up with amd at some point in the past, while it may not have come up with nvidia.

Also, I just noticed something.... Aren't all professional/workstation cards non AIB or a select AIB partner? I've never seen a plethora of AIB for pro cards. The Radeon Instinct (server) and workstation cards come in one flavor made by AMD. So, circling back.. What gives about this b.s about AMD not being able to make an FE styled consumer card sold through them?

different market segments.

 

[MadOver]

Im pretty sure after all this mess with 64, they will try to have the 56 Vega at 399USD no matter what
Shame it's not partner boards, Im looking to replace my good 480 Red Devil for a 56 from the same PowerColor guys if the did as a good job as they did with mine.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

I keep hearing everyone mention bad reference cooler... By this measure, are any blower cards good? No server rack mounted GPU has a cooler designs that openly dump air in the case. They are all active or passive blower models w/ external exhaust....

So, i'm confused as to why it is commonly stated that reference coolers are bad? It's a chunk of metal with a fan blowing and exhausting. Do AIB make better blower cards? I've never seen one.

The nice overclocked aftermarket cards are much quieter, and better performing than any blower card that can be made. Once you've had a nice aftermarket card you just can't go back to blowers unless you're in a mini-ITX or multi-card set up.

While this may be true in a select few games kyle say this on the bottom of page 15 of his review:

"However, when MSAA is being used GTX 1070 takes the lead. It’s very important to look at the settings, MSAA performance seems to favor NVIDIA’s Pascal at the moment versus AMD’s Vega."

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/08/22/amd_radeon_rx_vega_56_video_card_review/15

Yeah I skimmed over that part, that's interesting how in some titles it tanks performance and in others it seems to be able to stay ahead of the 1070. Once the dust settles and we have aftermarket coolers for 56 I think it's going to be a wash. I'd recommend the 56 over 1070 at 1440p if you were also going to want a new 144Hz A-Sync monitor, as that will save you around $200 overall.

 

[tential]

Im pretty sure after all this mess with 64, they will try to have the 56 Vega at 399USD no matter what
Shame it's not partner boards, Im looking to replace my good 480 Red Devil for a 56 from the same PowerColor guys if the did as a good job as they did with mine.

I'll bet you dollar amount you have that's currently liquid that Vega 56 will not have significant quantity at launch at $399
Granted that's also the safest bet ever.

 

[dlerious]

Oddly enough OcUK have some of the "lower" prices on AMD. UK is dodgy in terms of business environment regardless of area of activity, but I digress, that's a different issue.

Having said that, I did manage to buy my Vega FE at £899 - hold your whips, I couldn't care less about gaming with this card - which is on average £100-160 cheaper. I was absolutely stumped to see that it looks like this card is a return, it looks as if it was inserted in a PCI slot but that's about it - no other signs, it's pristine otherwise. By the way, the unboxing is the crappiest experience I've ever had with a card... ever... not even a stupid case badge and the foam is slightly smelly.

Back on topic though, OcUK still have the old price pre-orders, not the circulated +100 one. I feel though they will be on Pre-Order status for the rest of Vega retail history. Waiting to buy one, well, that's really the only option right now, isn't it? There's no stock to wait for.

Looks better in US (stock wise). The $499 card sold out before I could get one so I did an Auto-Notify at Newegg. Got the notification for back in stock a week later, clicked the link with a little excitement which was short lived. It was $719, so I passed. There's some black packs that have been in stock at Newegg all day - 2 at $689 and the MSI at $719. I'm not buying unless I see the $499 card ($399-$449 Vega 56) , but I'm not waiting very long. If I see a good deal on a 1080 Ti (say around $650), I'm grabbing that instead......unless I convince myself I need the compute performance of the Vega FE.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

Looks better in US (stock wise). The $499 card sold out before I could get one so I did an Auto-Notify at Newegg. Got the notification for back in stock a week later, clicked the link with a little excitement which was short lived. It was $719, so I passed. There's some black packs that have been in stock at Newegg all day - 2 at $689 and the MSI at $719. I'm not buying unless I see the $499 card ($399-$449 Vega 56) , but I'm not waiting very long. If I see a good deal on a 1080 Ti (say around $650), I'm grabbing that instead......unless I convince myself I need the compute performance of the Vega FE.

Check massdrop, there's a deal for 660 on the Aorus card. Go big and don't look back

Edit: Here's the link
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aorus-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-11g

 

[dlerious]

Check massdrop, there's a deal for 660 on the Aorus card. Go big and don't look back

Edit: Here's the link
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aorus-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-11g

Drop inactive. Thanks anyway.

 

[ub4ty]

it isn't necessarily incompetence that could lead to amd agreeing not to competing with its board makers. nvidia is much more important to asus than amd is to asus, and nvidia knows that, so is in a better contractual position to demand things like being able to sell some quantity themselves prior to AIB partner launches. also, amd/ati historically made the boards in house, while nvidia hadn't, so that may have come up with amd at some point in the past, while it may not have come up with nvidia.


different market segments.

Clearly they can make their own custom boards for (pro/workstation) and restrict it through whomever makes them and sell them through more restricted channel than consumer boards when the price is right....

So, it has nothing to do w/ what they can and can't do as they clearly do it when pricing is right. What the consumer market has more to do w/ is price and profits, middle men, distribution chains, and various forms of leeching/skimming. Something that wouldn't be tolerated by professionals (widely varying pricing)... Only consumers are left to do w/ this cluster ****.

I hope by the end of this fiasco that every consumer gets to become knowledgeable about the skimming/leeching that occurs all throughout the distribution chain and w.r.t to how the same hardware becomes segmented across different lines.

The fact that the coverage becomes more and more detailed everyday and leaks are beginning to flow from distributors examples that's exactly what's going to occur

 

[ub4ty]

The nice overclocked aftermarket cards are much quieter, and better performing than any blower card that can be made. Once you've had a nice aftermarket card you just can't go back to blowers unless you're in a mini-ITX or multi-card set up.



Yeah I skimmed over that part, that's interesting how in some titles it tanks performance and in others it seems to be able to stay ahead of the 1070. Once the dust settles and we have aftermarket coolers for 56 I think it's going to be a wash. I'd recommend the 56 over 1070 at 1440p if you were also going to want a new 144Hz A-Sync monitor, as that will save you around $200 overall.

I'd assume if you're doing anything with a GPU that requires it to be stressed and heat that you aren't necessarily in the quietest setting. I have music playing 24/7 while i work and peripheral cooling that is louder than any fan in a computer. I have no clue why people harp about the noise meme so hard as if its dead silent and they're using 100% GPU. I have several after market cards that dump tons of heat in the case. You have to find balance when you have an air cooled CPU. Heat exhausting is the best form it just seems that no one is making proper heatsinks w/ pipes for blowers.. Bling sells better as well as a disregard for spewing heat in people's cases.

I'm looking at vega 56 as an eval card to see what AMD plans to do w/ opencl and their compute stack. I'm giving them one go while I continue dev on Nvidia. If its a disappoint, i'm staying team green. Given all the hyping they've done, FP16 better be exposed on the compute side as well as other features like HBCC. If not, i'll remember just how much such features are gimped by both sides.

So, blower it is. I have enough heat being spewed in my case as it is.

 

[railven]

it isn't necessarily incompetence that could lead to amd agreeing not to competing with its board makers. nvidia is much more important to asus than amd is to asus, and nvidia knows that, so is in a better contractual position to demand things like being able to sell some quantity themselves prior to AIB partner launches. also, amd/ati historically made the boards in house, while nvidia hadn't, so that may have come up with amd at some point in the past, while it may not have come up with nvidia.

Actually, now that you mention it, whatever happened to the ATI deal, I believe they had it with Sapphire? Back in the day all the cards I bought were branded ATI. I can't say for sure 100% there wasn't another small logo for say Sapphire. But I remember even buying some cards from ATI.com. Ah the good old days.

 

[Elixer]

Would people rather see AMD push the Vega56 card selling date from the 28th (4 days from now) to Sept. 28th, in order to build up more day 1 stock?

Unless they got a ton of chips that failed to be Vega64's, I still don't see them being able to produce enough stock to meet demand, even if they pushed it all the way to Black Friday.