AMD Raven Ridge 'Zen APU' Thread

[DrMrLordX]

That Stoney Ridge is only one XV module is irrelevant. Board OEMs have already demonstrated with Carrizo that they will generally build to the cheapest CPU available for the platform (which for Carrizo was Carrizo-L). So that means more single-channel boards for mobile Bristol Ridge. If AMD had required dual-channel memory for Stoney Ridge and Bristol Ridge to function properly, it would give OEMs no choice but to build all their system to specification.

Yes, even Stoney Ridge should require dual-channel memory configurations.

 

[NTMBK]

Well.. Stoney Ridge is a single Excavator core and a single CU cluster. So, of course it will be tied to a single channel. Kaveri -> Bristol Ridge => Two Bulldozer-derived cores and two CU clusters. Obviously, means Dual-channel.

Raven Ridge is four Zen cores and four CU clusters. Qua...wait what its dual channel again?!

Zambezi and Vishera were four modules with dual channel DDR3-1866. Four Zen cores with two channels of much faster DDR4 should be fine.

 

[Erenhardt]

After having kaveri machine in my home for a 1.5 years I can say that APU is a perfect product for someone who is looking for a modern PC that will do their daily tasks, facebooks, youtube etc, and lite gaming as a bonus.
My sister is using it and it is perfect for the office and web stuff. Even played some games: new sims, Dragon Age, Terra Online, Dark Souls, Murdered Soul suspect and other games without a problem (at reduced settings and 1280x1024 resolution).
For a gaming oriented build, it is just not worth the savings. But if gaming is not the main concern, an APU is a great alternative to have a cheap PC that can do more.

 

[Sweepr]

Launch second half of 2017:

Well, we’ll start with the desktop configuration we [talked about] today. And when you think about the rest of the markets, you’ll see it permeate, as we complete that Zen rollout. What we said was that in the second half of 2017 there will be an APU—take that same Zen core and bring it into an APU configuration. We didn’t release too far in advance the details of that, but that’s when you’re going to see the permeation right into our mobile PC markets.

www.pcworld.com/article/3109320/components/zen-qa-with-amds-cto-were-bringing-competition-back-to-high-performance-x86.html

So mobile APUs will compete with Cannonlake.

 

[wahdangun]

RX 460 will be a 896 SPs part clocked above 1.1 GHz (>2 TFLOPs) @ 112 GB/s. AMD wishes they had an APU that could come close to this.

its already in PS4 NEO so, and it will even have higher than that in xbox scorpio

 

[Sweepr]

its already in PS4 NEO so, and it will even have higgher than that in xbox scorpio

Both of which using fast 256/384-bit GDDR5 instead of dual-channel DDR4.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Specifically, there is a class of 35W desktop that about the size of NUC and Brix:

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/optiplex-7040-micro-desktop/pd?ref=PD_OC

http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-el...i-pc-(energy-star)?jumpid=Desktops_Finder_PDP

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1242652&gclid=CN-fkNqZgM4CFYlsfgodB3wDXA&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876,92051677442,&A=details&Q=

So the transforming desktop concept is an alternative to what I pictured above (but has the added option of being also used as a 15W laptop)

Yeah, especially large companies and government agencies are good customers for these kind of models.
HP has them as well.
Mostly light administrative work and logging into central server.
Sometimes, the entire work related administration is done, on html and java based.
Often used when people do not have a fixed desk but kind of swarm around to find the nicest desk with a "terminal".

 

[wahdangun]

Both of which using fast 256/384-bit GDDR5 instead of dual-channel DDR4.

but you said

RX 460 will be a 896 SPs part clocked above 1.1 GHz (>2 TFLOPs) @ 112 GB/s. AMD wishes they had an APU that could come close to this.

so it will not difficult for AMD to release an APU like that, but maybe there is no market for high performance APU or maybe because pathetic bulldozer cpu holding its back to release another budget oriented workstation, with high performance iGPU, now with zen I'm expecting AMD will just do that, maybe after xbox scorpio launch first.

 

[R0H1T]

so it will not difficult for AMD to release an APU like that, but maybe there is no market for high performance APU or maybe because pathetic bulldozer cpu holding its back to release another budget oriented workstation, with high performance iGPU, now with zen I'm expecting AMD will just do that, maybe after xbox scorpio launch first.

It definitely has a market in high end notebooks, though desktop users will always prefer a beefier dGPU.

 

[William Gaatjes]

After having kaveri machine in my home for a 1.5 years I can say that APU is a perfect product for someone who is looking for a modern PC that will do their daily tasks, facebooks, youtube etc, and lite gaming as a bonus.
My sister is using it and it is perfect for the office and web stuff. Even played some games: new sims, Dragon Age, Terra Online, Dark Souls, Murdered Soul suspect and other games without a problem (at reduced settings and 1280x1024 resolution).
For a gaming oriented build, it is just not worth the savings. But if gaming is not the main concern, an APU is a great alternative to have a cheap PC that can do more.

I agree. For the daily work and some light compiling for embedded mcu it is perfect and small programs development under windows an APU is perfect.

 

[AtenRa]

Low cost HBM on the way, will hit mass market soon

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/53536/low-cost-hbm-way-hit-mass-market-soon/index.html

 

[ShintaiDK]

0.x cost. Even Samsung wouldn't commit to price.

DDR5, LP4X, GDDR6 coming from Samsung.

 

[itsmydamnation]

0.x cost. Even Samsung wouldn't commit to price.

DDR5, LP4X, GDDR6 coming from Samsung.

Thats because it looks very early "needs inputs from clients for specific features".

i want X to cost Y but i dont know what i need X to do............

 

[ShintaiDK]

Thats because it looks very early "needs inputs from clients for specific features".

i want X to cost Y but i dont know what i need X to do............

At this point its very unlikely that HBM ever gets outside the HPC type segment. GDDR5X/GDDR6 pretty much instantly killed it for consumer graphics. And the cost structure will never be cheap enough for cost oriented parts.

 

[itsmydamnation]

we will have to see, amd has stated the GPU future is on interposer, the AMD server "APU" is on interposer. if you went a 4 core Zen module + a P10 GPU on an interposer right now there would already be space for atleast 1 Dram stack.

Its a far more complex yeild/power/performance/cost situation then you make out. Someone like Apple could be interested they already like crystalwell.
The question is will a tipping point be reached.

 

[Erenhardt]

At this point its very unlikely that HBM ever gets outside the HPC type segment. GDDR5X/GDDR6 pretty much instantly killed it for consumer graphics. And the cost structure will never be cheap enough for cost oriented parts.

I think it would be super nice for console APUs. GDDR5 High latency is not good for CPU portion of the APU.

High volume console with hbm could help bring hbm cost down. Maybe Sony can help develop cheap HBM implementation for PS5.

I think market is hungry for High performance consoles and it showed. It was starved by a way too long ps3/360 generation. That is why ps4 was much better received than xbone. People were thirsty for every bit of performance.

I think Sony console refresh will be very short lived and 2 years from the release we will be looking at the all new and shiny ps5, which will be a powerhouse with HBM, not a mobile CPU+ old midrange GPU.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I think it would be super nice for console APUs. GDDR5 High latency is not good for CPU portion of the APU.

High volume console with hbm could help bring hbm cost down. Maybe Sony can help develop cheap HBM implementation for PS5.

I think market is hungry for High performance consoles and it showed. It was starved by a way too long ps3/360 generation. That is why ps4 was much better received than xbone. People were thirsty for every bit of performance.

I think Sony console refresh will be very short lived and 2 years from the release we will be looking at the all new and shiny ps5, which will be a powerhouse with HBM, not a mobile CPU+ old midrange GPU.

There is even less reason to use HBM/HBM2 in a console. GDDR5/GDRR5X/GDDR6 is a much better option. Last 2 even removes the mW/Gbps/Pin ratio benefit HBM/HBM2 had over GDDR5. And again, cost, cost and cost. You could most likely fit a console with 64GB GDDR5X/GDDR6 contra 16GB HBM2.

 

[NTMBK]

I think it would be super nice for console APUs. GDDR5 High latency is not good for CPU portion of the APU.

Isn't GDDR5 latency in nanoseconds comparable to DDR3 latency? It is a higher number of clock cycles, but the higher effective frequency cancels that out.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Isn't GDDR5 latency in nanoseconds comparable to DDR3 latency? It is a higher number of clock cycles, but the higher effective frequency cancels that out.

Yep. HBM is (was?) actually the slowest one there. But HBM offers free ECC in its current form. A low cost edition would remove that tho. Not to mention lack of buffer.

 

[KTE]

Yeah, especially large companies and government agencies are good customers for these kind of models.
HP has them as well.
Mostly light administrative work and logging into central server.
Sometimes, the entire work related administration is done, on html and java based.
Often used when people do not have a fixed desk but kind of swarm around to find the nicest desk with a "terminal".

All gov IT contract facilities (support, not AD/AM) use stuff like this plus multiple laptops. And they order in the 3 figures, of each.

The deps I've seen use HP laptops running A4-4300m 2.5GHz based on Piledriver. They're always running slow, always very loud and always lagging to load basic browser pages. Always running hot. The users are always locked down with config or monitoring, too.

The others use Macbook pros or Lenovo based Broadwell-U 17W 5x00 series. These run smooth and flawless.

So base setup and configuration is what AMD needs done right, for brand trust and reliability.

Sent from HTC 10
(Opinions are own)

 

[William Gaatjes]

All gov IT contract facilities (support, not AD/AM) use stuff like this plus multiple laptops. And they order in the 3 figures, of each.

The deps I've seen use HP laptops running A4-4300m 2.5GHz based on Piledriver. They're always running slow, always very loud and always lagging to load basic browser pages. Always running hot. The users are always locked down with config or monitoring, too.

The others use Macbook pros or Lenovo based Broadwell-U 17W 5x00 series. These run smooth and flawless.

So base setup and configuration is what AMD needs done right, for brand trust and reliability.

Sent from HTC 10
(Opinions are own)

Comparing a 2012 32nm model A4-4300M with a 2015 14nm Broadwell-U...
Of course the Intel cpu is going to run smoother and use less power . Where you expecting anything different ?

But i do think that AMD should never ever again let manufacturers allow to use an apu in single memory channel mode. And always with an SSD.

 

[Arachnotronic]

But i do think that AMD should never ever again let manufacturers allow to use an apu in single memory channel mode. And always with an SSD.

What leverage does AMD have here?

"Use double channel memory or you can't use our APUs"?

Yeah, AMD isn't in a position to say that.

 

[KTE]

Comparing a 2012 32nm model A4-4300M with a 2015 14nm Broadwell-U...
Of course the Intel cpu is going to run smoother and use less power . Where you expecting anything different ?

But i do think that AMD should never ever again let manufacturers allow to use an apu in single memory channel mode. And always with an SSD.

It's not a comparison of the hardware. People here are overreacting these days.

It's a comparison between OEM setups and configs.

Sent from HTC 10
(Opinions are own)

 

[William Gaatjes]

It's not a comparison of the hardware. People here are overreacting these days.

It's a comparison between OEM setups and configs.

Sent from HTC 10
(Opinions are own)

Well, i am not over reacting but your previous post sure gives the idea that you wanted to boost about performance from a given manufacturer.
I am not going to join in, but it should be better if you would compare Intels mobile cpu/gpu combo from 2012 with amd apu's from 2012.
That would be more fair.
Would be better to state the performance of the broadwell-U series and demanding that AMD comes up with something (mobile zen) alike in the near future.

 

[William Gaatjes]

What leverage does AMD have here?

"Use double channel memory or you can't use our APUs"?

Yeah, AMD isn't in a position to say that.

Maybe, AMD should go in negotiation with Quanta computer or foxconn or the other big name( i forgot for a moment) with an optimized design with chipset, ssd or M2 and dual channel memory laptop with a decent tft ips panel. And sell those laptops themselves. Show what can be possible with combined upcoming and present amd hardware. If AMD comes up with a laptop that has good performance for a reasonable price and some OEM makes a crappy model with a huge AMD logo on it just below the price, the reviewers will clearly state that the OEM laptop is a failure.And the AMD reference laptop will sell good.
Founders editions and reference designs cards for GPU sell pretty well. Why not take that one step further and do the same for laptops.