AMD Raven Ridge 'Zen APU' Thread

[PeterScott]

You probable have mixed up the names, RR = RavenRidge = ZEN CPU Cores + VEGA iGPU. It will come both in Mobile and up to 65W TDP Desktop in 2018 for AM4 platform.

I know what it is. When I said high power, I mean 90+ Watts like the A10 you used in your comparison.

If I am doing a build with a full size desktop case, I would use a Ryzen CPU die, and cheap GPU card, and not have to split power and memory bandwidth budgets.

65 Watts (Do we have any real info even this much TDP is coming to RR?) is not much to share between CPU and GPU especially when a RX 550 (GT 1030 performance) is drawing near that much alone.

The real market for Ryzen is Mobile and SFF without GPU slots.

 

[SPBHM]

Kaveri with dual channel DDR-3 2133MHz memory (34GB/s Bandwidth) is equal to GT730 Kepler GDDR-5 64bit 40GB/s Bandwidth.
A new Vega iGPU with 50GB/s bandwidth should be very close to GT1030 (48GB/s bandwidth)

yet the 550 with 112GB/s and 512SPs Polaris @ 1.2GHz and over 50W is barely any faster, more like a match.
with around the same bandwidth, less if shared with CPU cores and likely less GPU performance (probably lower than 512SPs@1.2GHz?), I just don't see it,
GT 730 as you mentioned is Kepler, GT 1030 is Pascal, huge improvements there, specially to memory bandwidth efficiency, I'm sure AMD can beat a 1030 with less than 112GB/s, but not with 50GB/s.

 

[Glo.]

I think you are just setting yourself up for disappointment.

It's a marketing slide, it will have a combination of numbers that are unlikely to be achieved in the real world.

I doubt there will be a high power desktop model of RR. AMD will be pushing Ryzen for that role.

RR is for mobile and low power SFF.

I am interested in a RR SFF (possibly with passive cooling in Streacom case), but I am tempering my expectations, to be less than marketing claims (which are usually exaggerations), not in excess of marketing claims.

Raven Ridge APU Engineering samples in question: 4C/8T Zen cores with 3.0/3.3 GHz clocks, and 11 CU GPU with 800 MHz, all packed in 35W TDP.

GPU has 704 GCN cores. And yet, AMD is claiming that in those circumstances the GPU in Raven Ridge APU is 40% faster than 1108 MHz GPU with 8 CU's in 65W TDP A12 9800.

Both GPUs have exactly the same TFLOPs performance. What AMD has been testing? Nobody knows. However those slides are not done by GPU marketing department, but CPU marketing department, which lately actually shows that is better than GPU marketing dept.

What this means? It can mean absolutely everything. Even that Vega GPUs in best case scenario are 40% faster per clock that Polaris GPUs.

 

[Glo.]

From what I can see in the code is that it looks to me as if RR will not have HBM.

static int gmc_v9_0_sw_init(void *handle)
{
    int r;
    int dma_bits;
    struct amdgpu_device *adev = (struct amdgpu_device *)handle;

    gfxhub_v1_0_init(adev);
    mmhub_v1_0_init(adev);

    spin_lock_init(&adev->mc.invalidate_lock);

    switch (adev->asic_type) {
    case CHIP_RAVEN:
        adev->mc.vram_type = AMDGPU_VRAM_TYPE_UNKNOWN;
        if (adev->rev_id == 0x0 || adev->rev_id == 0x1) {
            adev->vm_manager.vm_size = 1U << 18;
            adev->vm_manager.block_size = 9;
            adev->vm_manager.num_level = 3;
        } else {
            /* vm_size is 64GB for legacy 2-level page support*/
            amdgpu_vm_adjust_size(adev, 64);
            adev->vm_manager.num_level = 1;
        }
        break;
    case CHIP_VEGA10:
        /* XXX Don't know how to get VRAM type yet. */
        adev->mc.vram_type = AMDGPU_VRAM_TYPE_HBM;

Another thing, if the GFX V9 and the SoC 15 family is using Infinity Fabric what are the chances that the GPU is fed from the same Memory controller?

This basically means that HBM2 APU would require different design.

 

[swilli89]

This basically means that HBM2 APU would require different design.

I believe most have come to the conclusion that initial RR will definitely be a single/dual DDR4 memory interface. Beyond a much easier chip design, system integration will be much easier which is important because this is the chip that we will finally see adopted into OEM designs, both in desktop and laptop. I truly believe RR will be a much bigger game changer than even Ryzen 7+5+3 combined. Raven Ridge will be the chip that OEM's can throw in a SFF tower for cheap and be able to legitimately call it a gaming system. Downclocked versions will be a very powerful laptop chip and judging by Ryzen's efficiency, will be even more efficient than anything out there currently.

 

[NewFatMike]

I'm really hoping for a 95+W SKU that'll work in mobile form factors. I'm happy with the performance of the 970M in my laptop, and would be thrilled to get that kind of performance for the same total system wattage in something that has XPS 15 build quality.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[swilli89]

I'm really hoping for a 95+W SKU that'll work in mobile form factors. I'm happy with the performance of the 970M in my laptop, and would be thrilled to get that kind of performance for the same total system wattage in something that has XPS 15 build quality.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I think the leaked sample was at 35W TDP. Ryzen is wonderfully efficient at lower clockspeeds/voltages.. the primary wild card for now is how those Vega cores will perform...

I think once we know how RX Vega shakes out we will be able to much more accurately predict where RR will land performance and efficiency-wise.

 

[iwulff]

I'm really hoping for a 95+W SKU that'll work in mobile form factors. I'm happy with the performance of the 970M in my laptop, and would be thrilled to get that kind of performance for the same total system wattage in something that has XPS 15 build quality.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Since an unlocked APU will probably be there, and Vega can clock higher we can safely assume this will become a possibility.

 

[insertcarehere]

I'm really hoping for a 95+W SKU that'll work in mobile form factors. I'm happy with the performance of the 970M in my laptop, and would be thrilled to get that kind of performance for the same total system wattage in something that has XPS 15 build quality.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Since an unlocked APU will probably be there, and Vega can clock higher we can safely assume this will become a possibility.

~970M performance implies near as makes no difference, GTX1050ti gpu performance, in an APU...uhh, yeah no..

 

[guachi]

Like some others have said:

I'd buy a 95W APU I could put into a SFF ITX case. If it were fast enough, I could get by without having to buy a GPU or any add on card.

But if the GPU is too weak because Vega is bad or the TDP is too low, say 65W, for the system to be competitive, I might as well buy an R5 and dedicated GPU.

A great APU is key to a tiny system. It's either tiny or full size, no real reason for me to go in-between.

 

[NewFatMike]

I mean, there's a lot of thermal room for it. The i7 5700HQ and 970M come out to ~150W full tilt. I'd even be willing to sacrifice some performance for additional battery life.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[PeterScott]

Like some others have said:

I'd buy a 95W APU I could put into a SFF ITX case. If it were fast enough, I could get by without having to buy a GPU or any add on card.

But if the GPU is too weak because Vega is bad or the TDP is too low, say 65W, for the system to be competitive, I might as well buy an R5 and dedicated GPU.
.

If you want GPU performance >= RX 550, then you should count on getting a dedicated GPU.

 

[ao_ika_red]

Here ya guys! I'm afraid it's not Zen APU, but it's still based on AM4 socket.
I know some folks would love to hear this news.
According to Anandtech, no pricing yet.

 

[Glo.]

https://videocardz.com/71232/amd-ryzen-5-2500u-with-radeon-vega-graphics-spotted

 

[ao_ika_red]

https://videocardz.com/71232/amd-ryzen-5-2500u-with-radeon-vega-graphics-spotted

Nicely spotted. Interestingly, they use 2xxx SKU. Zen+ or what?

 

[LightningZ71]

While interesting from a technical perspective, for a desktop, I have to wonder if it is more cost effective to get a Ryzen 1200/GeForce 1030 with the cheapest DDR4-2400 RAM, or to go with an A12-9800 and combine it with the fastest DDR4-3XXX RAM that you can find. The A12 is 2C/4T with no L3, so it will likely suffer on the CPU side, and the shared memory bandwidth will hurt the GPU side as well.

 

[ao_ika_red]

While interesting from a technical perspective, for a desktop, I have to wonder if it is more cost effective to get a Ryzen 1200/GeForce 1030 with the cheapest DDR4-2400 RAM, or to go with an A12-9800 and combine it with the fastest DDR4-3XXX RAM that you can find. The A12 is 2C/4T with no L3, so it will likely suffer on the CPU side, and the shared memory bandwidth will hurt the GPU side as well.

I've got that conundrum few months ago. A10-7870k or x4 860k with r7 250x. I finally ended up with the second option because there's quite big price gap between them (around $40) because DDR3-2133 was not cheap enough and hard to get by.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

While interesting from a technical perspective, for a desktop, I have to wonder if it is more cost effective to get a Ryzen 1200/GeForce 1030 with the cheapest DDR4-2400 RAM, or to go with an A12-9800 and combine it with the fastest DDR4-3XXX RAM that you can find. The A12 is 2C/4T with no L3, so it will likely suffer on the CPU side, and the shared memory bandwidth will hurt the GPU side as well.

That should not even be a question. Ryzen3 + 1030 will outperform that A12 by a healthy margin, and I doubt the combination will use more power. I'd bump to the 1300X, the additional performance (3.9GHz XFR vs. 3.45GHz) is well worth the slight bump in price.

Excavator is just not suited as a gaming CPU.

(There is another matter regarding price, which you should take with a rather large grain of salt, apparently the A12-9800 will be priced at about Ryzen5 1500X current price. In my opinion way, way overpriced for what it is.)

 

[Glo.]

(There is another matter regarding price, which you should take with a rather large grain of salt, apparently the A12-9800 will be priced at about Ryzen5 1500X current price. In my opinion way, way overpriced for what it is.)

https://hothardware.com/news/amd-athlon-x4-a-series-cpus-compatible-am4-motherboards

99$.

 

[ao_ika_red]

https://hothardware.com/news/amd-athlon-x4-a-series-cpus-compatible-am4-motherboards

99$.

Are you sure? Slide provided by Ian didn't mention any pricing yet.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

99$.

Sounds good to me. That seems a far more fair price.

 

[beginner99]

Hm, this Bristol Ridge release and problems with Vega FE performance and power use don't bode well for Raven Ridge. Looks like it will be delayed.

 

[NewFatMike]

https://videocardz.com/71232/amd-ryzen-5-2500u-with-radeon-vega-graphics-spotted

I'm too thirsty for RR news for this kind of tease. Looking like it's getting 1080p30 medium, though? That's not bad at all.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[flash-gordon]

Hm, this Bristol Ridge release and problems with Vega FE performance and power use don't bode well for Raven Ridge. Looks like it will be delayed.

Don't see how to connect those dots, since they are all different dies...

The way I see AMD has a better mind share right now to release BR than 6-8 months ago, also, there's plenty AM4 boards on the market to acommodate Ryzen R5/R7 and the budget oriented R3/BR.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Bah Bristol Ridge is a year old already.