AMD Raven Ridge 'Zen APU' Thread

[PeterScott]

APUs always lag the CPUs in incorporating a new core. Zen launched with 8C/16T Summit Ridge in late Q1 2017. Vega launched in Q3 2017. Raven Ridge 4C/8T incorporating Zen and Vega will launch in Q1 2018. This is how AMD develops their CPUs, GPUs and APUs. So even though Zen 2 and Navi will launch in 2019 the 7nm APU incorporating both Zen2 and Navi will launch in Q1 2020. Moreover APUs are high volume and it takes time to ramp volume and improve yields for a mass market mainstream consumer product. Raven Ridge will get a 12LP update in Q1 2019 after Pinnacle Ridge on 12LP arrives in Q3 2018.

It makes sense. You are combining both products, so you need to work out all the individual show stoppers before you can combine them, so you want some level of maturity in both CPU and GPU before you make the APU.

And as you say, you may want both to advance before you tape out an new APU as well.

Given that, I am 95% certain that we won't see an HBM APU in 2018 or 2019.

IMO the first chance of that will come in with the next major upgrade in RR architecture, which is only likely to hit volume in 2020.

 

[cbn]

Anyone have theories on why the top consumer Raven Ridge is only getting 11 CUs, not 12 CUs?

Could it be that AMD is saving 12 CU dies for a FirePro APU?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Anyone have theories on why the top consumer Raven Ridge is only getting 11 CUs, not 12 CUs?

Could it be that AMD is saving 12 CU dies for a FirePro APU?

They could also just have run into die size/thermal limits, so 11CU made the most sense.

 

[Topweasel]

They could also just have run into die size/thermal limits, so 11CU made the most sense.

I think this was the same as the 4MB vs. 8MB L3. It's not that AMD isn't producing dies with those features. It's that they are being used for redundancy. By limiting the chips for sale to 4MB and 11 CU's AMD would drastically increase yields.

 

[Mopetar]

Yields makes sense. Could also be that bandwidth limitations put severe diminishing returns on additional CUs.

 

[HurleyBird]

I must have missed something. Where is this talk of 12 CUs originating from?

 

[Topweasel]

I must have missed something. Where is this talk of 12 CUs originating from?

For a while it was rumored that RR was 12 CU's, there was at least one ES with 12 leaked. But everything roadmap wise has referred to 11.

 

[vinhom]

Perhaps the target for the top SKU is 10CUs, not 12.

 

[Spartak]

APUs always lag the CPUs in incorporating a new core. Zen launched with 8C/16T Summit Ridge in late Q1 2017. Vega launched in Q3 2017. Raven Ridge 4C/8T incorporating Zen and Vega will launch in Q1 2018. This is how AMD develops their CPUs, GPUs and APUs. So even though Zen 2 and Navi will launch in 2019 the 7nm APU incorporating both Zen2 and Navi will launch in Q1 2020. Moreover APUs are high volume and it takes time to ramp volume and improve yields for a mass market mainstream consumer product. Raven Ridge will get a 12LP update in Q1 2019 after Pinnacle Ridge on 12LP arrives in Q3 2018.

From where did you hear Pinnacle Ridge will launch in Q3 next year? According to this article it's slated for february 2018: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mothe...en-will-arrive-in-February-2018.251736.0.html

And apparently Mark Papermaster has confirmed this as well:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Ryzen-and-Vega-will-get-12-nm-versions-in-2018.249690.0.html

Why can't I find anything about this on the forum?

Also, if Pinnacle Ridge already launches in february, and Raven Ridge seemingly delayed to 2018, and possibly slated for a may release, does this mean Raven Ridge will be on 12LP too?

After such a long wait a regular 14LP RR release would be utterly disappointing if a) it gets delayed until a full year after Summit Ridge b) it launches after Pinnacle Ridge on 12LP

If they decided to move Raven Ridge to 12LP I could fully understand the delay...but something tells me RR will be delayed AND still on 14LP

 

[PeterScott]

From where did you hear Pinnacle Ridge will launch in Q3 next year? According to this article it's slated for february 2018: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mothe...en-will-arrive-in-February-2018.251736.0.html

And apparently Mark Papermaster has confirmed this as well:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Ryzen-and-Vega-will-get-12-nm-versions-in-2018.249690.0.html

Why can't I find anything about this on the forum?

Also, if Pinnacle Ridge already launches in february, and Raven Ridge seemingly delayed to 2018, and possibly slated for a may release, does this mean Raven Ridge will be on 12LP too?

After such a long wait a regular 14LP RR release would be utterly disappointing if a) it gets delayed until a full year after Summit Ridge b) it launches after Pinnacle Ridge on 12LP

If they decided to move Raven Ridge to 12LP I could fully understand the delay...but something tells me RR will be delayed AND still on 14LP

All he confirmed was the transition, which is obvious. I don't see anything where he said a date.

GF said 12nm would be in production in Q1, which doesn't mean delivering product to consumers in Q1. I really doubt the February date for 12nm.

I really hope we see Raven Ridge before then.

 

[Spartak]

All he confirmed was the transition, which is obvious. I don't see anything where he said a date.

GF said 12nm would be in production in Q1, which doesn't mean delivering product to consumers in Q1. I really doubt the February date for 12nm.

I really hope we see Raven Ridge before then.

uhm, it said so literally in the whole first paragraph?

"AMD’s CTO Mark Papermaster announced at the Global Foundries Technology Conference that current “graphics and client products” will transition from the Global Foundries 14 nm LPP FinFET manufacturing process towards the improved 12 nm LP process in the first quarter of 2018. According to Tom’s hardware, AMD’s CTO confirmed that the Vega GPUs and the Ryzen CPUs will get 12 nm version in early 2018."

Note that he says products transition, not that the manufacturing process itself will start the transition then.

So an early/Q1 '18 Pinnacle Ridge release seems all but confirmed. Pinnacle Ridge will use the Summit Ridge architecture, so no, this is indeed Pinnacle Ridge he's talking about. The second article confirms this news from motherboard manufacturers that specify a february release target for "Pinnacle 7/5/3". They also specify a may release for low power (AM4 RR?) parts, which leaves the door open for a RR FP5 release in early '18. But that would pretty much rule out the possibility of RR moved to 12LP.

If Picasso boils doen to the "Pinnacle Ridge 12LP version for mobile" mobile/APU would be a full year behind desktop/client. That would be utterly disappointing. That basically means AMD sees no real market there.

 

[PeterScott]

uhm, it said so literally in the whole first paragraph?

They are incorrectly paraphrasing their source. Which was Tom's HW.

Which is why, I always read the most original source I can get, not the later ones which often exaggerate or shift the meaning.

Read the original source:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-vega-12nm-lp-2018,35502.html
"At the Global Foundries Technology Conference, AMD’s CTO Mark Papermaster announced that the company will be transitioning “graphics and client products” from the Global Foundries 14nm LPP FinFET process it uses today to the new 12nm LP process in 2018."

He only confirmed 2018. Not the first quarter.

 

[Spartak]

I stand corrected. I read the TH article too but didnt catch the distinction that was misinterpreted. So this points to an 18Q3 launch most likely.
That basically rules out RR on 12LP.

 

[PeterScott]

I stand corrected. I read the TH article too but didnt catch the distinction that was misinterpreted. So this points to an 18Q3 launch most likely.
That basically rules out RR on 12LP.

I am not sure when. I just don't think Q1 is likely. I don't see Q2 being out of the question.

Either way. I don't think RR should be waiting on 12nm.

It's a very important part. I hope we see it soon.

 

[krumme]

Rr is fine on 14lpp imo. Base 2.6 stuff with turbo 3.4 or so seems plenty. I think rr is tdp limited not process fmax. Its the desktop that is in dire need when 6c cfl hits market dec or jan.
But perhaps the vega fast path shader hardware is broken and needed an extra fix? Anyway Its pretty important they get it to work out the gate especially the tiled rendering because of bandwith restriction on ddr4.

 

[FIVR]

I am not sure when. I just don't think Q1 is likely. I don't see Q2 being out of the question.

Either way. I don't think RR should be waiting on 12nm.

It's a very important part. I hope we see it soon.

What is this FUD about Q2? Lisa Su already confirmed RR is on track for Q4 2017 delivery. No idea where you are getting these numbers, but you can put away your "concern" because nobody is saying Q2 and most are saying Q4 this year, including the CEO. If you are "worried" that Lisa Su doesn't know what she's doing, then you clearly haven't been paying much attention.

 

[FIVR]

It is very possible they will do Q4 2017 delivery for RR and then do a refresh with Zen+ on 12LP for Q2 2018. Perhaps that is why people are confused?

 

[Arachnotronic]

It is very possible they will do Q4 2017 delivery for RR and then do a refresh with Zen+ on 12LP for Q2 2018. Perhaps that is why people are confused?

A 6-month product cycle going from RR -> Picasso is too short.

 

[Seronei]

What is this FUD about Q2? Lisa Su already confirmed RR is on track for Q4 2017 delivery. No idea where you are getting these numbers, but you can put away your "concern" because nobody is saying Q2 and most are saying Q4 this year, including the CEO. If you are "worried" that Lisa Su doesn't know what she's doing, then you clearly haven't been paying much attention.

He's not saying Raven Ridge will be Q2, he's saying 12lp Ryzen wont launch until 2018 Q2. Hence Raven Ridge isn't 12lp.

 

[FIVR]

He's not saying Raven Ridge will be Q2, he's saying 12lp Ryzen wont launch until 2018 Q2. Hence Raven Ridge isn't 12lp.

I think it is obvious that RR will not be 12LP. They have already taped out and we have seen several leaked benchmarks.


I agree that Raven Ridge will not be 12LP if that was his point.

 

[FIVR]

A 6-month product cycle going from RR -> Picasso is too short.

It is certainly short, but I was just offering up some sort of explanation for the assertion that RR would be Q2 2018. I agree though that it is unlikely.


Q4 2017 for RR on 14LP followed by Q4 2018 RR refresh on 12LP sounds like a more likely timeline to me.

 

[PeterScott]

Yes. I just don't expect 12nm Products in Q1. RR should be anytime soon.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Yes. I just don't expect 12nm Products in Q1. RR should be anytime soon.

DigiTimes says Pinnacle Ridge in February 2018.

 

[PeterScott]

DigiTimes says Pinnacle Ridge in February 2018.

Digitimes is OFTEN wrong.

 

[PeterScott]

As far as RR/Picasso, there was this slide. It shows RR for 2018, Picasso for 2019(could be fake but looks realistic):