AMD Ryzen 3000 Builders Thread

[DrMrLordX]

If I mounted a top fan as intake to point it straight at the VRM heatsinks, would that work? Would it mess up airflow for the rest of the case too much?

If you have one as exhaust, that would probably work better. Usually, ATX cases have intakes in the front and (maybe) on the side, and then exhaust in the back and on the top. Beyond that it's up to you whether you are trying to maintain positive pressure in the case.

I will only say this to you - I ran Cinebench R15

Did you run Prime95 smallFFTs? Cinebench is actually pretty relaxed. It doesn't even use 128-bit SIMD. It's SSE4.1a or something. The most current I can get my 1800x @ 4.0 GHz to draw is 135a (contrast this with y-cruncher, where I saw 152a at one point). I have Prime95 running right now and it's pulling 145a . . .

on this board with my 2700X at 4.25GHz and 1.45V with power draw for CPU well above 250W (390W system power consumption).

No active cooling of VRMs and board handled it fine.

1.45V? Ouch. How much current did it draw? HWiNFO64 should tell you. Honestly, I'd like to know. In something like y-cruncher or Prime95.

BTW if you think you need 160A for 3.5GHz on all cores on even 14nm ... my 12C Threadripper takes way less than that!

My 1800x easily pulls over 90a average @ 3.7 GHz with 1.2v vcore. You might have a better bin that lets you run lower voltage, but I would be fascinated to know what your Threadripper pulls @ 3.5-3.7 GHz with the lowest voltage you can maintain. In fact, testing that threadripper at different clocks and voltages might give us a pretty good idea of what current Matisse will want.

We still have to remember also that Matisse is a wider core. That will up current draw as well, particularly in workloads that can use the extra performance - notably, AVX2 workloads. I can easily see 16c Matisse pulling in the 140-180a range @ 3.7 GHz depending on what voltage it takes to get there and what workload you run. Believe me that when I get my 12x 3900x, I will do some benchmarking to see how current draw is affected by voltage and clockspeed. I already did this with my 1800x in the narrow clockspeed range that it will run via static overclocks (3.6 GHz and lower makes the machine lock up).

You can see it here:

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=bookmarks/confirm?content_type=post&content_id=39840575

Peak current draw for 3.7 GHz @ 1.2v was 112a. If I were able to boot and run @ 1.0v then peak current draw would probably be in the 80-90a range. Double the core count, and you're likely looking at 160-180a. Add AVX2 capabilities . . . do you see where I am going here?

I have electronic engineering education and some marketing will not sway me from the facts.

Then deal in facts. I do not care for marketing. But I am aware that current draw is a real concern.

3.64GHz if we're splitting nickels, 3.64, 3.7, is 60Hz going to make a difference?

Like I said, blame the 1800x for having a crappy boost algorithm. If it had PBO2 or the equivalent, I'm sure it would hit 3.8-3.9 GHz with proper cooling and VRMs, and more if 14LPP weren't holding it back so much. Something it would never do on a 3-phase motherboard. Put a 2700x on there and see how far it goes . . .

I don't expect to see any but I'll report either way.

It won't unless you try hand overclocking, which is the only way to get an 1800x to run higher than 3.7GHz all-core. XFR was pretty lame on 1st-gen Ryzen chips. At best you'll get 3.7 GHz all-core and 4.1 GHz single-core. And that's if you cool the heck out of it.

 

[Christopher Bohling]

If you have one as exhaust, that would probably work better. Usually, ATX cases have intakes in the front and (maybe) on the side, and then exhaust in the back and on the top. Beyond that it's up to you whether you are trying to maintain positive pressure in the case.

Right, I understand that top = exhaust is the common wisdom, but I figured that if I have a top fan set to exhaust, then all the air the VRMs get will just be hot air radiating off the GPU backplate.

Anyway I watched a Buildzoid video regarding AM4 upgrade paths and he seems to be saying that 6-phase X370 boards shouldn't have any trouble with the 8-core models, so I'm just going to plan on getting the 3800X and see how far I can push it. Hopefully my board will also allow me to push the memory to 3600.

 

[lightmanek]

DrMrLordX I sold 2700X and bought TR1920 so can't run the same tests again, but for VRM it doesn't matter what program I'm running for given power draw. I know first hand that this inexpensive X370 board will handle 200W+ processors just fine long term. You will hopefully be positively surprised how well new CPUs are handled by decent older boards soon enough.

Obviously for my main rig, I would love to jump to the newest and greatest, but for people on budget any decently designed older gen board will suffice.

Facts are, 7nm is more power efficient than 14nm and at a given clock speed new CPU will use less power. Issues we will face when overclocking will be mainly dealing with heat density and taking it away as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Looking forward to playing with new Zen 2 CPU soon, hopefully availability will be decent enough at launch Need new toy to play a bit with!

 

[DrMrLordX]

Right, I understand that top = exhaust is the common wisdom, but I figured that if I have a top fan set to exhaust, then all the air the VRMs get will just be hot air radiating off the GPU backplate.

That might be a problem, or it might not. Remember that moving air more-aggressively is going to keep temps on everything cooler, including your GPU backplate. You should not have problems so long as your GPU isn't overheating itself severely.

Anyway I watched a Buildzoid video regarding AM4 upgrade paths and he seems to be saying that 6-phase X370 boards shouldn't have any trouble with the 8-core models, so I'm just going to plan on getting the 3800X and see how far I can push it. Hopefully my board will also allow me to push the memory to 3600.

If all you want is an 8c chip, then look at what can handle a 2700x and plan accordingly. I would expect that even 4+2 boards can handle the 3700x or 3800x up to 4.3 GHz all core.

DrMrLordX I sold 2700X and bought TR1920 so can't run the same tests again, but for VRM it doesn't matter what program I'm running for given power draw. I know first hand that this inexpensive X370 board will handle 200W+ processors just fine long term. You will hopefully be positively surprised how well new CPUs are handled by decent older boards soon enough.

For my part, I'll be doing some testing with a 3900x to attempt to match what numbers I produced with my 1800x to test for current draw. I am less concerned about overall power draw on the weaker boards than I am current.

 

[EXCellR8]

Still no actual plans for my refined Ryzen 7 computer... no beta BIOS or QA from Asrock that I've seen.

Worst case scenario I could bundle a CPU and motherboard to save a little money, still would rather not though.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@EXCellR8

Give it time. I am not going to shill for AMD and/or the mobo OEMs that hard, but I do think that (eventually) proper UEFI support for the older boards will be there. B350 and X370 will be the last ones to receive proper support. I am not 100% confident in ASRock though, which is one of many reasons why I am not even thinking of using my X370 Taichi with Matisse.

 

[EXCellR8]

@EXCellR8

Give it time. I am not going to shill for AMD and/or the mobo OEMs that hard, but I do think that (eventually) proper UEFI support for the older boards will be there. B350 and X370 will be the last ones to receive proper support. I am not 100% confident in ASRock though, which is one of many reasons why I am not even thinking of using my X370 Taichi with Matisse.

Well, not sure how I missed this but apparently they've already announced that the older chipsets WILL be getting updates:

https://www.asrock.com/news/index.us.asp?iD=4238

My board is slated for a 5.40 ver. BIOS but I'm not sure if any have actually been released thus far (May was the initial speculation)

 

[Markfw]

@EXCellR8

Give it time. I am not going to shill for AMD and/or the mobo OEMs that hard, but I do think that (eventually) proper UEFI support for the older boards will be there. B350 and X370 will be the last ones to receive proper support. I am not 100% confident in ASRock though, which is one of many reasons why I am not even thinking of using my X370 Taichi with Matisse.

I am thinking about using my X370 with the 3900x, needs bios 5.6, and its not out yet, only 5.5. Don't you think that board has enough VRM do do the 3900x ?

 

[EXCellR8]

I'm actually fine with X370 being last in the pipeline to get BIOS updates, that just leaves me more time to review and compare my choices post-launch.

I know I say that but I will probably end up ordering something as soon as I can haha. Sort of still thinking 3700X...

 

[Stryke1983]

Gradually gathering more components together for my new build. Everything but CPU and MB now.
Seasonic 650W Focus plus
Fractal Define R6
Evga 2080 Black
G.Skill Trident Z 3600 CL 16 (16GB)
Dark Rock Pro 4
500GB Samsung 860
500GB Samsung 970

July 7th can't come soon enough. I don't want to know how much time I've wasted cycling through all my tech site bookmarks scraping up every little bit of info posted for the last few weeks.

 

[Monk5127]

NH-D15 is here, still undecided on a motherboard.
Regarding the benchmark thread, where is a cut off for recent intel processors? Haswell, Ivy, Sandy?
Also 3D Mark have a sale on until July 9 which will be nice for benchmarks. I hope to compare my outgoing Haswell i7 with the 3900. It wont be a perfect comparison as the windows install on the haswell is well lived in vs the clean install the 3900 will get.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I am thinking about using my X370 with the 3900x, needs bios 5.6, and its not out yet, only 5.5. Don't you think that board has enough VRM do do the 3900x ?

X370 Taichi has enough VRMs for even the 3950X, conservatively. My only concerns about X370 Taichi are a). vdroop (it uses doublers, and I get droop even on my 1800x) and b). mem overclocks (x370 Taichi uses T-topology and has a max RAM setting in UEFI of DDR4-4000). Knowing ASRock, there may be other problems that defy logic.

But the VRMs should be fine.

 

[Terzo]

Allegedly, Francois Piednol really wanted Intel to do just that. Years ago. He was rebuffed. There's this thing called Rocket Lake coming up but uh . . . when, we don't know. And we don't know if it's Sunny Cove or if it's even meant to compete with Matisse.



1). Either one will be a massive upgrade over your current daily driver! That being said, the 3600 may actually OC better, making it potentially a better gaming/ST chip. 3700x is probably the worst-binned chip of all the launch-day Matisse SKUs. It should still do pretty well. 3600 might hit 4.8-5.0 GHz while 3700x may be stuck at 4.7 GHz. Just guessing here, but still. If you are okay with 4.5 GHz or lower on either chip, actually the 3700x would be the better buy . . . if it's in your budget.

2). Which motherboard are you looking to use here? Unless you are going for a bleeding-edge OC on a 3700x, I doubt the cooler will matter much. You will not get a great HSF with either the 3600 or 3700x since both are specced for only 65W coolers. 140mm doesn't give you much wiggle room either. Have you considered an AiO instead? EVGA CLC 280 isn't that expensive, it'll give you lots of cooling overhead, and it will probably fit the Cerberus if you're willing to be flexible about where you put the rad:

https://www.sliger.com/products/cases/cerberus/

What's your budget?

Or consider posting this in the Ryzen 3000 builders thread.

1. I'm not too worried about clockspeeds, especially since it sounds like games these days are usually limited by the gpu.
2. Either the asus b450 strix or the asrock b450 fatality. I'm told asus has slightly better vrms but I think overall the asrock is the better option. I don't see a need for an x570 mobo. I did consider an AIO but at the end of the day it seems like the best use for it is high heat parts with limited cooling abilities. I think I'd be fine with a cheaper noctua for example (or wraith if that's fine).

My budget is flexible, ideally I want to stay under 1000 but that's not a hard cap. I'm willing to go above since I expect to keep these parts for quite a while. I don't have the case yet, so that would be a large purchase. Here's what I'm planning on buying (from microcenter when available)
CPU: 3600 (or 3700x) = $200 or $360
Mobo: ASROCK Fatality b450 ITX = $110
RAM: 2x8 gb 3600 cl16 = ~$100
SSD: Inland Premium 1tb = $100
PSU: Corsair SF600 = $150
Case: Cerberus = $250
2-3 Noctua casa fans = $60
CPU cooler: ? maybe U9S at $60? The more I think about it, I don't want to use the stock cooler if there are better air options available.
GPU: reusing rx580


With the 3600 that already puts me at about $1000. The other thing I've considered is splitting my purchase up. I could get the CPU, Mobo, RAM, SSD, and CPU cooler now. And then buy the case and SFF PSU later. That would help split up the costs across a few more months.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@Terzo

First, if you want B450, I would be more comfortable with the 6-core CPU. 8-core will work fine if you temper your expectations on clockspeeds. Be aware that some early UEFI revisions for those boards may be rocky, especially if you pick an ASRock board. I would either go for 4.5 GHz on a 3600 or 4.3 GHz on a 3700x. Also be aware that ASRock likes to disable stuff like PBO for non-x CPUs (they did this on x470 Taichi for R7 2700). They may do this even for the 3700x due to its low TDP rating. Keep your eye on that situation.

Secondly, I only recommended AiO because of your form factor/lack of space for a cooler. Obviously if you are not really shooting for high clocks then it won't help all that much otherwise. Performance is going to take a back seat to noise (you aren't going for high clocks). Choose carefully based on that factor.

I see nothing specifically wrong with the rest of your build. Noctua case fans may be overkill (look at the static pressure). Unless you have a metric ton of restriction from messy cabling, I don't think you'll need those. There are cheaper options for just moving air. I haven't heard of the Inland 1tb SSD yet. Is that NVMe?

 

[Terzo]

@Terzo

First, if you want B450, I would be more comfortable with the 6-core CPU. 8-core will work fine if you temper your expectations on clockspeeds. Be aware that some early UEFI revisions for those boards may be rocky, especially if you pick an ASRock board. I would either go for 4.5 GHz on a 3600 or 4.3 GHz on a 3700x. Also be aware that ASRock likes to disable stuff like PBO for non-x CPUs (they did this on x470 Taichi for R7 2700). They may do this even for the 3700x due to its low TDP rating. Keep your eye on that situation.

Secondly, I only recommended AiO because of your form factor/lack of space for a cooler. Obviously if you are not really shooting for high clocks then it won't help all that much otherwise. Performance is going to take a back seat to noise (you aren't going for high clocks). Choose carefully based on that factor.

I see nothing specifically wrong with the rest of your build. Noctua case fans may be overkill (look at the static pressure). Unless you have a metric ton of restriction from messy cabling, I don't think you'll need those. There are cheaper options for just moving air. I haven't heard of the Inland 1tb SSD yet. Is that NVMe?

In terms of motherboards, most of what you said flew over my head. Unfortunately microcenter has only one x470 mitx board (asus strix x470). If that’s worth the money i’m on board to spend it.

In terms of cooling, i value silence over performance. Also the aio’s seem to pretty costly; $130 range for a 240 dual radiator compared to $60 for the noctua u9. I’m not against it based on price alone, but I haven’t used a an aio before and i’m not sure if the pump noise is something that would bother me.

And the inland is microcenters house brand ssd. It’s an m2 using the phison e12 controller (i think) and comparable to intel 660 in performance.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Interesting, haven't heard of Microcenter's in-house brand but now I have! Learn something new every day.

Take a look at this:

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/pbo

Some motherboard OEMs allow you to use PBO on chips like the R7 2700 and some don't. Without PBO, your chip is basically stuck at its TDP rating (in the case of the chips you're looking at, that's 65W). That means an R7 2700 (for example) can't go faster than ~3400 MHz all-core turbo with PBO disabled/unavailable. I would expect your all-core clockspeeds to be capped somewhere in the range of 3700-4000 MHz with a 65W Matisse chip depending on which one you get. You can still manually set clockspeeds by setting a static overclock.

If there was anything else on the motherboard commentary that was confusing, let me know. Oh, and you don't necessarily need x470 either. Just keep your clockspeeds down if you get the 3700x and you should be fine. If your motherboard supports PBO for your chip, it'll take care of that issue itself.

The AiO I was referencing is this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N16CAKN/?tag=pcpapi-20

It's relatively cheap and it performs quite well. The best part about an AiO in a small case like yours is that it can overcome case air restrictions pretty easily. Downside on that particular unit is that it can get loud if you crank up the fans. Pump is 20dBa.

 

[Terzo]

Interesting, haven't heard of Microcenter's in-house brand but now I have! Learn something new every day.

Take a look at this:

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/pbo

Some motherboard OEMs allow you to use PBO on chips like the R7 2700 and some don't. Without PBO, your chip is basically stuck at its TDP rating (in the case of the chips you're looking at, that's 65W). That means an R7 2700 (for example) can't go faster than ~3400 MHz all-core turbo with PBO disabled/unavailable. I would expect your all-core clockspeeds to be capped somewhere in the range of 3700-4000 MHz with a 65W Matisse chip depending on which one you get. You can still manually set clockspeeds by setting a static overclock.

If there was anything else on the motherboard commentary that was confusing, let me know. Oh, and you don't necessarily need x470 either. Just keep your clockspeeds down if you get the 3700x and you should be fine. If your motherboard supports PBO for your chip, it'll take care of that issue itself.

The AiO I was referencing is this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N16CAKN/?tag=pcpapi-20

It's relatively cheap and it performs quite well. The best part about an AiO in a small case like yours is that it can overcome case air restrictions pretty easily. Downside on that particular unit is that it can get loud if you crank up the fans. Pump is 20dBa.

I looked it up, it seems like asrock does support PBO.Though the VRMs apparently aren't quite as good as asus. Is that reason enough to go with asus? Though, at this point, I'm even considering an x570 if it would be beneficial (my main reason to avoid them is the chipset fan). But I don't expect pci 4.0 to be relevant for a while.

I think you have me sold on aio, though I'll probably go with the corsair h100i pro.

The 3600 is sounding more and more of a sure thing, so I"m all but settled on that. Pretty much prepared to be at microcenter saturday morning unless reviews rain on the parade.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@Terzo

ASRock does support PBO, but only on certain CPUs. Be sure you know what you're getting into before you go with them. It's not a lock that anyone else will support PBO on the 3600 either. For example:

https://community.amd.com/thread/234309

The Asus x470 Pro apparently does not support PBO on an R7 2700, just like various ASRock boards. You probably need to investigate on a board-by-board basis to make sure you can use that feature, if that's really what you want. Otherwise you will be doing things by hand or will be stuck at fairly low clocks (versus what you can easily get with an AiO).

 

[DrMrLordX]

Are pre-orders going up in ~4 hours? If so, might be smart to start posting about it around here just to keep people informed as to where they can get one.

 

[Markfw]

I have my searches ready for amazon, newegg, and ebay. I will be up for at least 2 more hours. All I know is sometime in the next 12 hours or so.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I have my searches ready for amazon, newegg, and ebay. I will be up for at least 2 more hours. All I know is sometime in the next 12 hours or so.

Guess we'll know in about 8 minutes. Keep us posted if you see anything. I'll do the same. I'm only searching Newegg and Amazon atm. Amazon really messed up my pre-order of a C6H back in 2017 though, so I'm hesitant to deal with them on a x570 pre-order.

edit: not seeing anything yet. Hmm.

 

[country2]

No per-orders yet...

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yup. I'm a bit mystified by the whole thing. Hopefully we won't have another mess like the Radeon VII launch.

edit: doesn't look like it. Might check again @ 9pm 9am EST which is when Radeon VII went live. That was tied to a review embargo, though.

 

[Monk5127]

Nothing this side of the pond. Guess I'll have to keep a separate window open at work as I don't want to miss it.
Settled on the C8H for a motherboard, if this Motherboard, CPU, RAM combo lasts as long as my Z87 system I may as well treat myself.

 

[phillyman36]

Hopefully not true but in another forum (Overclock) someone posted this.

According to Robert Hallock, preorders are not happening anywhere except for China on jd.com. Anywhere else starting 7/7.