AMD Ryzen 3000 Builders Thread

[scannall]

Why do you think I brought up PBO? That is one of the "auto functions". Also, there are people out there saying that 4+2 and 6+2 boards will be "just fine" for everything. In the case of 4+2 boards I would not trust them with anything over 120a at full load. There's a very real chance of the 3950x having a 180a or higher limit with PBO removed. Pick the wrong board, and you will lose clocks even when utilizing PBO.

Obviously, if you are going to do any kind of overclocking, even PB0 you need to buy a decent quality motherboard. Especially if you want longevity. If you are just leaving everything stock, I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Obviously, if you are going to do any kind of overclocking, even PB0 you need to buy a decent quality motherboard. Especially if you want longevity. If you are just leaving everything stock, I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference.

So do we consider PBO to be stock operation or overclocking? Chips like Intel's 9900k have muddied the question a bit, since it's nearly impossible to get a board that will run one with a TDP of 95W stock (and I have no idea what the implications are for warranties). In the case of AMD platforms, you actually have to activate PBO somewhere. A lot of people seem to be treating PBO as stock operation nevertheless.

 

[scannall]

So do we consider PBO to be stock operation or overclocking? Chips like Intel's 9900k have muddied the question a bit, since it's nearly impossible to get a board that will run one with a TDP of 95W stock (and I have no idea what the implications are for warranties). In the case of AMD platforms, you actually have to activate PBO somewhere. A lot of people seem to be treating PBO as stock operation nevertheless.

PB0 invalidates your warranty, and increases the TDP up quite a bit higher. You have to actually activate it. It can't come activated from the manufacturer of the motherboard. Unlike MCE, which is hit or miss as far as the different motherboards go. Which makes it more confusing for consumers.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Heads up! We're getting some better information on current draw from Matisse. Use this when selecting a motherboard!

https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1624051-vrm-new-am4-motherboards-86.html#post28023068

This is from AMD_Robert on reddit.

Long story short, you should expect the 105W TDP CPUs (3800x, 3900x, 3950x) to draw 140a with sufficient CPU cooling. That means your 4+2 boards that heat up quickly thanks to high duty-cycle may throttle back to 95a if they can't maintain their (probably 40a) current ratings due to heating. This throttling doesn't even take PBO into account. You can take the commentary from other people in the thread with a grain of salt if you like, but as I predicted, these chips may draw a lot of current. Power isn't really the main factor here.

 

[Elfear]

PB0 invalidates your warranty, and increases the TDP up quite a bit higher. You have to actually activate it. It can't come activated from the manufacturer of the motherboard. Unlike MCE, which is hit or miss as far as the different motherboards go. Which makes it more confusing for consumers.

That's how it worked with the Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series but one of the AMD guys (Robert Hallock maybe?) said PBO will come activated from the factory with Zen 2, no need to sign a waiver as far as I understand.

 

[DrMrLordX]

That's how it worked with the Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series but one of the AMD guys (Robert Hallock maybe?) said PBO will come activated from the factory with Zen 2, no need to sign a waiver as far as I understand.

He said it would be available, not that it would be active. You'll still have to flip a switch in the UEFI to make it work. Or maybe activate it in Ryzen Master.

 

[Elfear]

He said it would be available, not that it would be active. You'll still have to flip a switch in the UEFI to make it work. Or maybe activate it in Ryzen Master.

Crap, you're right. I watched the video and Hallock didn't mention anything about PBO being activated from the factory. Still not sure exactly what the new feature is. Doesn't the current PBO auto-overclock as well?

 

[scannall]

Crap, you're right. I watched the video and Hallock didn't mention anything about PBO being activated from the factory. Still not sure exactly what the new feature is. Doesn't the current PBO auto-overclock as well?

XFR auto clocks within the TDP. PB0 removes the TDP restriction and auto clocks to the thermals. Better cooling, higher clocks.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Still not sure exactly what the new feature is. Doesn't the current PBO auto-overclock as well?

Like @scannall said. Main thing to remember is that motherboard manufacturers had to . . . I don't know, sign some kind of waiver with AMD or something to support PBO on their boards with non-x chips before Matisse? Or something like that? So you'd get PBO available on a 2700x or 2600x, but not on a 2700 or 2600. Now AMD is just letting mobo OEMs provide PBO to all Matisse chips. It's not a walled-off feature anymore. That's the new feature, so to speak.

 

[phillyman36]

Confused about the XFR and PBO. I looked at youtube videos and see how people enabled PBO but dont see any on enabling XFR. How do you enable XFR? Does it void the warranty like PBO does?

 

[DrMrLordX]

How do you enable XFR?

Typically, you do this by enabling CPB (Core Performance Boost) in the UEFI. It's on by default on most/all AM4 boards.

 

[scannall]

Confused about the XFR and PBO. I looked at youtube videos and see how people enabled PBO but dont see any on enabling XFR. How do you enable XFR? Does it void the warranty like PBO does?

XFR is enabled by default on all 'X' chips. And not on the non 'X' models. XFR does not void the warranty, it's a part of the chip design.

 

[lightmanek]

Heads up! We're getting some better information on current draw from Matisse. Use this when selecting a motherboard!

https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-amd-general/1624051-vrm-new-am4-motherboards-86.html#post28023068

This is from AMD_Robert on reddit.

Long story short, you should expect the 105W TDP CPUs (3800x, 3900x, 3950x) to draw 140a with sufficient CPU cooling. That means your 4+2 boards that heat up quickly thanks to high duty-cycle may throttle back to 95a if they can't maintain their (probably 40a) current ratings due to heating. This throttling doesn't even take PBO into account. You can take the commentary from other people in the thread with a grain of salt if you like, but as I predicted, these chips may draw a lot of current. Power isn't really the main factor here.

Why not paste unedited reply from Robert?

"Every motherboard you have ever seen or heard of meets the AMD minimum specifications for electrical capacity, and exceeds it by some amount of margin. The CPU will not use any VRM headroom beyond the minimum specification unless you tell it to do so with PBO or manual OC. If someone isn't overclocking, better-than-AMD-recommends power supplies just look pretty.
I hope this, in a roundabout way, answers your question.
EXAMPLE: A 105W Ryzen Processor will never use more than 142W socket power; 95A from VRMs when they're thermally-constrained; or 140A from the VRMs when they're not constrained. That's hard-coded into the firmware until you tell the CPU to ignore it. Any motherboard rated for 105W Ryzen processors will meet this and then some. If the motherboard is significantly overbuilt, that extra capacity is does not assist the processor in any way until you override the OEM behavior."

Key take-away points are:
* every AM4 motherboard ever produced meets and exceeds AMD's minimum specification for given TDP (which is 95A sustained and 140A burst load for 105W)
* no matter CPU model, it will not go beyond minimum specification unless you enable PBO or manually override current limits
* Any motherboard designed for 105W TDP (no matter A320 or X570) will guarantee normal non-OC operation of your CPU

Simple take-away - If you plan OC and maximising performance, pay attention to which board you buy or already own and make decision based on that.
For anyone already invested in the platform, no need to worry, just buy new CPU of your choice, update BIOS and enjoy at least stock operation without any issue. Most of AM4 1st and 2nd gen motherboards will allow decent overclock, same as they did on older Ryzen.

Any one of us can use a bit of common sense and imagine backlash from unhappy customers if they got different stock performance on their old B350 board officially supporting new Ryzen 3900X compared to someone with X570 board. Stock is stock and this is what AMD is officially guaranteeing on any AM4 board with official BIOS support. Anything else, like PBO or XMP is technically OC and there are no guarantees.

Vote with your wallet guys, I personally will keep X370 board and enjoy new Ryzen, while saving money for new GPU (well, technically my son will have to save money ).

 

[DrMrLordX]

Why not paste unedited reply from Robert?

It's all there in the OCN post, is it not? Give credit where credit is due . . . to the poster there, not to me.

* every AM4 motherboard ever produced meets and exceeds AMD's minimum specification for given TDP (which is 95A sustained and 140A burst load for 105W)

That's not what he said at all. It'll sustain 140a when the VRMs are not overheating (when they're not constrained). Boards that start warming up too much on 140a will throttle back . Boards that don't, won't. Nothing bursty about it, except on sketchy VRMs.

* Any motherboard designed for 105W TDP (no matter A320 or X570) will guarantee normal non-OC operation of your CPU

That doesn't really seem to be the case when one board can sustain only 95a and another 140a. There are boards out there that during normal operation, will not be able to sustain 140a from the VRMs. Those 40a phases will become 30-35a phases as they warm up. Throttling will happen. On 6-phase boards and higher I do not expect it, but on the 4-phase boards? Sure, it will happen on some of them.

And don't think that x570 is a magic pill that will make Matisse run better. There are some older boards with better VRMs than the low-end x570s.

 

[lightmanek]

We have to agree to disagree, but that's fine.
Life would be boring without a bit of arguing

Can't wait for Sunday!

 

[moinmoin]

Why not paste unedited reply from Robert?

"Every motherboard you have ever seen or heard of meets the AMD minimum specifications for electrical capacity, and exceeds it by some amount of margin. The CPU will not use any VRM headroom beyond the minimum specification unless you tell it to do so with PBO or manual OC. If someone isn't overclocking, better-than-AMD-recommends power supplies just look pretty.
I hope this, in a roundabout way, answers your question.
EXAMPLE: A 105W Ryzen Processor will never use more than 142W socket power; 95A from VRMs when they're thermally-constrained; or 140A from the VRMs when they're not constrained. That's hard-coded into the firmware until you tell the CPU to ignore it. Any motherboard rated for 105W Ryzen processors will meet this and then some. If the motherboard is significantly overbuilt, that extra capacity is does not assist the processor in any way until you override the OEM behavior."

Key take-away points are:
* every AM4 motherboard ever produced meets and exceeds AMD's minimum specification for given TDP (which is 95A sustained and 140A burst load for 105W)
* no matter CPU model, it will not go beyond minimum specification unless you enable PBO or manually override current limits
* Any motherboard designed for 105W TDP (no matter A320 or X570) will guarantee normal non-OC operation of your CPU

Simple take-away - If you plan OC and maximising performance, pay attention to which board you buy or already own and make decision based on that.
For anyone already invested in the platform, no need to worry, just buy new CPU of your choice, update BIOS and enjoy at least stock operation without any issue. Most of AM4 1st and 2nd gen motherboards will allow decent overclock, same as they did on older Ryzen.

Any one of us can use a bit of common sense and imagine backlash from unhappy customers if they got different stock performance on their old B350 board officially supporting new Ryzen 3900X compared to someone with X570 board. Stock is stock and this is what AMD is officially guaranteeing on any AM4 board with official BIOS support. Anything else, like PBO or XMP is technically OC and there are no guarantees.

Vote with your wallet guys, I personally will keep X370 board and enjoy new Ryzen, while saving money for new GPU (well, technically my son will have to save money ).

Direct link to Robert's comment on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c7upru/_/esjd0ky

(I personally think linking directly is better than copy/pasting since behind the link further Q/A and information may have been posted since the original quote.)

 

[Tryad]

3200 CL14 and 3600 CL15

Silly question but... Im trying to get my parts ready for my next build. Where are you guys finding ram with this type of latency? Im trying to get 32GB dual channel. But I can't find anywhere to buy 3600 at CL15 at all, nor 3200 at CL14. I seemed to have found it in lower 8x8 variants though... Does it get harder to hit those latencies with denser ram sticks? Thanks in advance.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Silly question but... Im trying to get my parts ready for my next build. Where are you guys finding ram with this type of latency? Im trying to get 32GB dual channel. But I can't find anywhere to buy 3600 at CL15 at all, nor 3200 at CL14. I seemed to have found it in lower 8x8 variants though... Does it get harder to hit those latencies with denser ram sticks? Thanks in advance.

New egg has some corsair memory 32GB 3600 CL16 but its like double the price of the higher latency stuff $140 vs corsairs $280

 

[Tryad]

New egg has some corsair memory 32GB 3600 CL16 but its like double the price of the higher latency stuff $140 vs corsairs $280

Oh wow thanks a ton. Newegg is much better, they even let me sort by the latency I want.

 

[IEC]

Keep in mind that in regards to Ryzen, a small frequency downgrade for dual-rank sticks versus the single-rank "good stuff" still meant roughly equal performance. In other words, all else being equal having dual-rank per channel yielded a small performance benefit. So if you are going for capacity (16GB sticks are dual rank) it's best to not sweat the latency too much and focus on value.

The reason everyone loved single-rank Samsung B-die at 3200 CL14 or equivalent was because this memory was the most compatible with the Ryzen 1000/2000 series IMCs and yielded the best effective latency as well as the best clocks. With 3000-3200 CL16 RAM being so cheap these days I don't feel that it is worth it to pay a premium for B-die. Especially when they redid the memory controller for the 3000 series and compatibility should be better out of the gate.

I can literally pick up 32GB of 3000-3200 CL16 at the same price as 16GB of 3000 CL14. And less than 50% of the cost of 3200 CL14.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Keep in mind that in regards to Ryzen, a small frequency downgrade for dual-rank sticks versus the single-rank "good stuff" still meant roughly equal performance. In other words, all else being equal having dual-rank per channel yielded a small performance benefit. So if you are going for capacity (16GB sticks are dual rank) it's best to not sweat the latency too much and focus on value.

The reason everyone loved single-rank Samsung B-die at 3200 CL14 or equivalent was because this memory was the most compatible with the Ryzen 1000/2000 series IMCs and yielded the best effective latency as well as the best clocks. With 3000-3200 CL16 RAM being so cheap these days I don't feel that it is worth it to pay a premium for B-die. Especially when they redid the memory controller for the 3000 series and compatibility should be better out of the gate.

I can literally pick up 32GB of 3000-3200 CL16 at the same price as 16GB of 3000 CL14. And less than 50% of the cost of 3200 CL14.

I totally agree, the $140 saved is much better spent on a video card or monitor or almost anything else if there was an unlimited budget or if the goal was highest possible benchmarks then my answer would be different.

 

[Kenmitch]

I'm undecided on which 3xxx cpu I'll wind up with in the end. I'm only a day or so into the buying cycle and haven't gotten much yet. I guess it's whatever offers the best bang for the buck weighted by microcenters pricing structure. My bro lives down by the only microcenter in CA so I can just visit him at the same time.

So far:
G.Skill Flare X 16GB kit F4-3200C14D-16GFX
Asus Crosshair VI Hero

I went with the b-die kit to ensure compatibility with the MB. I picked up the MB in a $199.98 bundle with a R5 1600 at bestbuy. The deal is still going on if anybody is interested in it.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/amd-16...age/9999300000000393.p?skuId=9999300000000393

They're added to the cart at $99.99 each with no mention of a bundle discount so I plan on returning the 1600 sealed if possible. If not I'll just sell or trade it off locally.

 

[Markfw]

OK, first pre-order on a 3900x: but at $600 ???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Ryzen-...032535?hash=item1a7f3fba17:g:Y7oAAOSwpRhdGoMd

And even though it says 3900x in the title, it says 3800x below, but 12 cores.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

OK, first pre-order on a 3900x: but at $600 ???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Ryzen-...032535?hash=item1a7f3fba17:g:Y7oAAOSwpRhdGoMd

And even though it says 3900x in the title, it says 3800x below, but 12 cores.

@VirtualLarry is this you trying to sell some of your bulldozer chips?

#sarcasm

 

[UsandThem]

OK, first pre-order on a 3900x: but at $600 ???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Ryzen-...032535?hash=item1a7f3fba17:g:Y7oAAOSwpRhdGoMd

And even though it says 3900x in the title, it says 3800x below, but 12 cores.

I really can't blame them (I don't agree with it, but I fully understand why so many take advantage of new, in demand products. $$$$). There's people out there who will gladly pay the "I wanna be first" tax.

However, I am patient and I can wait a while since my PC is working just fine.