AMD Ryzen 5 2400G and Ryzen 3 2200G APUs performance unveiled

[Peter Watts]

16 Gigs is too expensive right now.

 

[ClockHound]

8 Gigs is too expensive right now.

Who needs more than 640k if DDR4 anyhow...

 

[Summerfun]

Have a look at this. Great performance with OC and fast ram.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWnZxzWdzFo

 

[alexruiz]

Ok, back into the Windows 7 situation.

I tried a win7 image that worked fine with Ryzen 1000 series (Ryzen 5 1600X on Gigabyte GA-AB350 Gaming 3)
I flashed the BIOS to F20, then booted into windows once BEFORE a processor swap.
SATA mode still set to AHCI. SSD connected to a SATA coming off the chipset. SATA driver set to AMD SATA
Swapped the 1600x for a 2200g. Restart.

Windows 7 crashed.
Restarted and crashed again.
Kept crashing every single time.
Changed the drive to a SATA port coming off the CPU. Same results, crash.

Tried that on my own PC, Asus Prime X370 Pro, put a 2400G in that PC.
Same result
Crash after crash.

So, something is different with these APUs.
Error code 0x000000A5 "BIOS is not fully ACPI compliant"

To make it even more frustrating, my own windows 10 install (16299.248) crashed twice before making it into windows.
Once in windows, installing the RV drivers showed in adrenalin installer as 17.7!


Edit 1:
The windows 10 crash situation was the RAM. Had to reseat the sticks as I think I got one slightly loose when I did the CPU change. Working fine in Windows 10 now.

 

[SPBHM]

for more serious multitasking 8GB with the IGP active is not very good, but for normal use and average gaming I think it's fine.

also hardwareunboxed made some tests showing the impact of reserving 64MB vs 2GB is very limited (there is perhaps some added OS/software overhead for that, but for a 3% FPS loss is no big deal), so it makes sense to use that when you have 8GB.

I have 8GB with a discrete card and it's very difficult for me to have problems because of it, windows handles it well with the pagefile and so on, also when I play heavier games I naturally close other programs anyway, I'll only multitask with more basic games that require less attention.

 

[3DVagabond]

First of all, explain me if your maximum memory usage is e.g. 4GB why there would be any performance difference between systems with 8, 16 or 32GB of RAM?
Given that all of the configurations are otherwise identical?

I think the whole discussion started when someone suggested that single channel 8gig is perfectly fine for a system with a dGPU but if you had 8 gig dual channel with the APU (2200-2400) It wouldn't be sufficient. Now people are saying if you want to run all kinds of background apps and have 10's of tabs open with God knows what else going on it won't be enough.

In order to make their point they are coming up with all these qualifications to "prove" it won't work. How about we stick to just playing games that the iGPU are capable of actually playing and not adding all kinds of other usage? Will it work then?

 

[3DVagabond]

Do you have information which shows that the major DRAM manufacturers are running their fabs below the full capacity?
Because otherwise there wouldn't be anything which would indicate illegal price fixings between the manufacturers.

There is no point in investing more into additional manufacturing capacity for processes which are already being phased out. Instead the manufacturers will invest into new processes which already are or will be coming online shortly.

Remember the "oil crisis"? You might not have been around or aware back then. But FWIW we were supposed to have run out of oil years ago. Fake news was not a Trump invention.

 

[del42sa]

Ok, back into the Windows 7 situation.

I tried a win7 image that worked fine with Ryzen 1000 series (Ryzen 5 1600X on Gigabyte GA-AB350 Gaming 3)
I flashed the BIOS to F20, then booted into windows once BEFORE a processor swap.
SATA mode still set to AHCI. SSD connected to a SATA coming off the chipset. SATA driver set to AMD SATA
Swapped the 1600x for a 2200g. Restart.

Windows 7 crashed.
Restarted and crashed again.
Kept crashing every single time.
Changed the drive to a SATA port coming off the CPU. Same results, crash.

Tried that on my own PC, Asus Prime X370 Pro, put a 2400G in that PC.
Same result
Crash after crash.

So, something is different with these APUs.
Error code 0x000000A5 "BIOS is not fully ACPI compliant"

To make it even more frustrating, my own windows 10 install (16299.248) crashed twice before making it into windows.
Once in windows, installing the RV drivers showed in adrenalin installer as 17.7!

I have the same experience, it keeping crashing on win7 no matter what...

Looks like the chip suffer from considerable more teething problems, even on win10: bsod, file corruption,some board having bios issues, immature drivers, looks like typical AMD new product launch....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_te-ksbGXE

 

[wahdangun]

Its impossible to get proof for this issue, one way or the other.
But let me ask you something, why Vega was delayed this much?
Why Amd has for the first time expended a year whiout a high end dgpu? You are sure it had nothing to do with ps4 pro and its "4k gaming" ? because im not so sure.

Look the original contract with Sony and MS was signed when AMD was in a very bad shape, we cant know exactly what it includes, AMD could had accepted petty much everything, and you had to admit what happened to Vega was strange AMD had nothing to counter 1070 and 1080 for a long, long time, right at the moment the PS4 PRO with 4K was coming out...

And now this whole deal with Intel, the KBL-G, to me it looks like an attempt to work around something.

Maybe it will be like Vega, and that APU you are talking about will launch, once is not a threat to consoles profit.

Wtf, man that's stupid, I mean do you think PC gamer will just stop purchasing high end graphics card just because amd can't deliver their card, i mean what stopping them from purchasing Nvidia instead ?

 

[tamz_msc]

I have the same experience, it keeping crashing on win7 no matter what...

Looks like the chip suffer from considerable more teething problems, even on win10: bsod, file corruption,some board having bios issues, immature drivers, looks like typical AMD new product launch....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_te-ksbGXE

How many of those issues are AMD-specific and not due to the MSI motherboard itself? In one of the comments the question is asked-

I didn't quite get it why Raven Ridge would cause BSODs with WLAN drivers? Where is the logical connection between these components?

To which they answer-

It's the MSI B350I motherboard that's responsible for that, in part, at least.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I have the same experience, it keeping crashing on win7 no matter what...

Looks like the chip suffer from considerable more teething problems, even on win10: bsod, file corruption,some board having bios issues, immature drivers, looks like typical AMD new product launch....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_te-ksbGXE

FWIW, the RR / Vega 8/11 APU drivers, ONLY work with Windows 10 1709. The RX VEGA drivers for Windows 7, apparently cause crashes and BSODs when used with the APU.

And mobo vendor BIOS / UEFI immaturity is really, sadly, nothing new to AMD product launches, because the mobo vendors have traditionally devoted less engineering resources to their AMD platforms. Hopefully with the success of the Zen-family CPUs and APUs, this will change.

 

[del42sa]

FWIW, the RR / Vega 8/11 APU drivers, ONLY work with Windows 10 1709. The RX VEGA drivers for Windows 7, apparently cause crashes and BSODs when used with the APU.

And mobo vendor BIOS / UEFI immaturity is really, sadly, nothing new to AMD product launches, because the mobo vendors have traditionally devoted less engineering resources to their AMD platforms. Hopefully with the success of the Zen-family CPUs and APUs, this will change.

No, it has nothing to do with RX Vega drivers on win 7 because you will not load CPU on windows 7, before you even try instal gpu drivers...

Technically there is not reason why you couldn't use RR on win 7 if Ryzen CPU working normally.

 

[BSim500]

Windows 7 crashed. Restarted and crashed again. Kept crashing every single time. Changed the drive to a SATA port coming off the CPU. Same results, crash. Tried that on my own PC, Asus Prime X370 Pro, put a 2400G in that PC. Same result. Crash after crash. So, something is different with these APUs. Error code 0x000000A5 "BIOS is not fully ACPI compliant"

What happens for Win7 when you do a completely fresh install with slipstreamed xHCI + NVM drivers, ie, not use any "image"? That ACPI error message does sound a little weird and suggests some deeper changes than just adding APU support. Also, what happens if you try booting into "Safe Mode"?

I have the same experience, it keeping crashing on win7 no matter what...

No, it has nothing to do with RX Vega drivers on win 7 because you will not load CPU on windows 7, before you even try instal gpu drivers... Technically there is not reason why you couldn't use RR on win 7 if Ryzen CPU working normally.

I'd have expected the same thing with booting APU's for the first time as what you get with inserting a dGPU without loading the driver (it'll boot fine, you can use in it "VESA compatibility mode", but there wouldn't be any 2D/3D acceleration until you installed the driver then rebooted). You're right that for it to crash before loading any drivers is obviously not a case of loading the "wrong" ones.

Have either of you two tried, eg, Linux Mint? (You don't have to install Linux to HDD, just see if it boots as a "LiveCD"?)

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Just a thought, but with DDR4 prices the way they are you -could- do an 8GB+4GB setup using the cheapest 2400MHz memory you can find. That'd give you 10GB usable, even with 2GB dedicated to the IGP.

Downside is you loose dual channel for the last 4GB on the 8GB DIMM, but it could do in a pinch.

Performance in games won't be affected whether you have 8 GB of total RAM vs 16 GB.

Well, it does make for smoother performance, but I doubt anyone would notice that using one of these APUs.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Remember the "oil crisis"? You might not have been around or aware back then. But FWIW we were supposed to have run out of oil years ago. Fake news was not a Trump invention.

That is not entirely correct.
It is easiest when one digs a hole and the oil comes squirting out under high pressure.
But for some time that does not happen any more and even pumping it up is not enough. That is when fracking appeared on the scene (mind you the technique already existed but it has serious environmental impact). Fracking was not used to prevent massive contamination. I am sure that over time fracking was improved but it is still a mess.
Also, at the time Russian oil and oil from other countries the usa was not in good terms with was a no no.
The oil crisis happened because the USA wanted cheap oil from abroad. And somebody from abroad (OPEC) refused to sell crude oil because of the problems in the middle east at the time.
There was always oil, but not the cheapest oil available. I does makes me wonder if the crisis started a revolution in the automobile industry to get more milage out of a gallon.

With dram , there is just a huge market, China, India, Europe, Russia, the USA, And that is just a few big countries and continent. There are many more..
Everybody wants tablets, smart phones, game consoles, computers, smart tv...

 

[del42sa]

What happens for Win7 when you do a completely fresh install with slipstreamed xHCI + NVM drivers, ie, not use any "image"? That ACPI error message does sound a little weird and suggests some deeper changes than just adding APU support. Also, what happens if you try booting into "Safe Mode"?

What happens for Win7 when you do a completely fresh install with slipstreamed xHCI + NVM drivers, ie, not use any "image"? That ACPI error message does sound a little weird and suggests some deeper changes than just adding APU support. Also, what happens if you try booting into "Safe Mode"?


I'd have expected the same thing with booting APU's for the first time as what you get with inserting a dGPU without loading the driver (it'll boot fine, you can use in it "VESA compatibility mode", but there wouldn't be any 2D/3D acceleration until you installed the driver then rebooted). You're right that for it to crash before loading any drivers is obviously not a case of loading the "wrong" ones.

Have either of you two tried, eg, Linux Mint? (You don't have to install Linux to HDD, just see if it boots as a "LiveCD"?)

It could be ACPI related issue, because right before it crashed,there was for a half second blue screen with note "this system is not ACPI compliant , please contact your vendor to update your bios setting"
0x00000A5

 

[BSim500]

It could be ACPI related issue, because right before it crashed,there was for a half second blue screen with note "this system is not ACPI compliant , please contact your vendor to update your bios setting"
0x00000A5

Given that it's occured on multiple boards & brands (Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, etc), at this point I don't know what else to suggest other than insert a dGPU, try disabling the iGPU in the BIOS then see if the 2200G / 2400G's installs W7 fresh (not boot to a previous image) as a pure CPU. If even that doesn't work, then there's definitely something else going on regarding the BIOS updates required for these chips vs the fact all the other Ryzen CPU's (1300X / 1500X, etc), worked perfectly fine in Windows 7 on the same boards with earlier BIOS versions.

 

[whm1974]

Have either of you two tried, eg, Linux Mint? (You don't have to install Linux to HDD, just see if it boots as a "LiveCD"?)

At this point I'm sure it wouldn't work due to Linux Mint being on the 4.13.x kernel, while you will need 4.15.x for Raven Ridge to work. The latest Manjaro Linux ISOs might work. The best thing to do is wait until the 4.16.x kernels and Mesa 18.x have been released first before trying Linux.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Remember the "oil crisis"? You might not have been around or aware back then. But FWIW we were supposed to have run out of oil years ago. Fake news was not a Trump invention.

Off topic, but so wrong on every level. I *was* around back then, and nobody said we "ran out of oil". OPEC cut production and decreased exports for political/economic reasons. As for "fake news" Trump may not have invented it, but he most definitely perfected the tactic of using the term to discredit legitimate information. (End of my comments on this.)

 

[maddie]

Off topic, but so wrong on every level. I *was* around back then, and nobody said we "ran out of oil". OPEC cut production and decreased exports for political/economic reasons. As for "fake news" Trump may not have invented it, but he most definitely perfected the tactic of using the term to discredit legitimate information. (End of my comments on this.)

There was the Political oil crisis of the 1970s and the later fear mongering predicted oil crisis by extreme environmentalists claiming that we were at, or past peak oil, and that soon oil would be scarce, meaning now.

Don't conflate.

 

[IEC]

Ahem, keep things on topic.

 

[whm1974]

One post over at the Manjaro Linux Forums managed to get Minecraft running at 60fps with the 2200G using the 4.15.x kernel:
https://forum.manjaro.org/t/i-cant-find-a-graphics-driver-for-amd-ryzen-5-with-vega-rx-8/40338/30
Granted it is Minecraft, but it does show that you can get Raven Ridge work with Linux. At least with rolling release distros that update their installation media regularly.

 

[Kenmitch]

As far as Windows 7 issues go.....

If you look at the current AMD chipset drivers dated the 11th of Feb you'll see the following

Description:
Supports Windows® 7/10 for
7th-Gen AMD A-Series Processors
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
AMD X370 Chipset
AMD B350 Chipset
AMD A320 Chipset
Windows® 10 only for
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor with Radeon™ Vega Graphics
AMD X399 Chipset

Package Includes:
AMD Chipset Drivers
AMD Ryzen™ Balanced Power Plan

Not sure what the future holds for support but I'd imagine that the majority of sales are going towards new builds in the end. I'd imagine a whole lot of OEM's are jumping on the bandwagon and zero of them will be running Windows 7....Just saying that it may be impractical to waste valuable resources on it.

 

[Shivansps]

Because Semi-Custom business is to some degree separate from Graphics, CPU and GPU businesses in AMD.

It USES AMD technology, and IP, for custom purposes: Consoles, Intel request. But it will never stop and never will impact AMD business, in any way, than by sucking Engineers, and their time and effort from GPU and CPU divisions. This is only impact Semi-Custom business front can have on AMD own CPU and GPU business.

But in the end its still a contract between Sony and AMD, not sure why you belive the contract cant "ask" something out of AMD just because the semi custom unit is another division.

Also its Sony!! They do exactly this stuff with the software houses, not allowing them to release the game for PC, some time as time exclusive, in others forever! Or do you belive some of the software houses dont want to make money out of the PC market?
I expect the worse out of Sony, and back on that moment AMD could have accepted anything.

I agree this is all speculation on my part, but if this thing with Vega and KBL-G happens again the coincidences will be piling up.

 

[Kenmitch]

But in the end its still a contract between Sony and AMD, not sure why you belive the contract cant "ask" something out of AMD just because the semi custom unit is another division.

Also its Sony!! They do exactly this stuff with the software houses, not allowing them to release the game for PC, some time as time exclusive, in others forever! Or do you belive some of the software houses dont want to make money out of the PC market?
I expect the worse out of Sony, and back on the moment AMD could have accepted anything.

Then how would AMD have made a more powerful offering for Microsoft if that was the case? Seems to me if Sony did what you are implying then they would have been smart enough to include Microsoft in the terms....See how silly your scenario sounds.