Question AMD Ryzen-and Motherboard Specific-"Unofficial" ECC RAM support?

[chane]

Among the criteria for my new build, ECC RAM support is the most important. But here and at forums like tomshardware, diyaudio and numerous others there's been needless doubt and precious time wasted for years over AMD processor-and compatible motherboard-support for ECC RAM. Indeed, at these forums I couldn't count the number of times I've read seeing "no official support" to the question "Do AMD processors support ECC RAM?". This simply is not an acceptable situation from Intel's chief, if not only, significant competitor.

It clearly should be incumbent on AMD to do yearly testing of at least A FEW specific motherboard models to insure their ECC RAM enabling support when tested with specific AMD Ryzen processors. That's hardly asking for very much-especially if motherboard brands offer to at least partially reimburse AMD for their time spent to running these ECC enabling tests on their boards.

However, ONLY AMD should be running these tests as, again, posters at numerous forums (and WE are the market for these products), claim to have found boards with, in fact, no ECC support, but where the brand claims otherwise.

Finally, I would also expect to receive from AMD-and/or from the motherboard brand which AMD claims they tested with their specific Ryzen processors to insure ECC RAM enabling-a step by step procedure for running ECC RAM bit error checks on files.

Today, I made my complaints known in writing to https://www.amd.com/en/support/contact-email-form I only wish I had thought of doing that long ago.

 

[Markfw]

The support on on the motherboard vendors. Why is it AMD's responsibility to verify the motherboards job ?

 

[moinmoin]

I think you are asking for ECC certified boards. AMD doesn't require Ryzen and Threadripper boards to be ECC certified, while boards for Threadripper Pro and Epyc are required to be certified. For the former support is still technically possible (the capability is not disabled by AMD on the chips) but needs to be implemented on the boards by the manufacturers to be usable.

 

[chane]

I think you are asking for ECC certified boards. AMD doesn't require Ryzen and Threadripper boards to be ECC certified, while boards for Threadripper Pro and Epyc are required to be certified. For the former support is still technically possible (the capability is not disabled by AMD on the chips) but needs to be implemented on the boards by the manufacturers to be usable.

Yes, what you say was unfortunately confirmed by this system builder. https://www.velocitymicro.com/contact-page.php

But there's a maxim in business that the little guy (vs. Intel in this case) has to try harder, and that's what AMD ought to be doing regarding ECC RAM support. As an end user, I don't need the horsepower of anything more powerful than the 65 watt TDP Ryzen 7 8 core cpu. But by only requiring boards to be ECC enabling for their more powerful series processors, AMD's acting no better than Intel who only ECC enables their Xeon cpus, which run at 80 watt TDP minimum, are only available to business markets, and consequently offer fewer options for consumers. Indeed, how much would it cost AMD to run ECC verifying tests on even just two or three boards every one or two years which are compatible with the Ryzen series? And most likely the board brands would give AMD free boards to do so. AMD runs the tests and if the boards pass everyone wins.

 

[thigobr]

A lot of boards support ECC memory. Some of them won't report errors to the system though so there's no real way to know for sure if the correction is working.

I built a home server last year using some spare parts (old Ryzen 7 1700 and some Kingston unbuffered ECC memory) and an ASRock X470D4U. I use Linux and the EDAC driver reports ECC is active. I tried the Memtest86 pro that has error injection feature but I the system really doesn't report errors!

I replaced the CPU recently by a Ryzen 5 Pro 4650G and to my surprise Memtest86 error injection actually triggers error reporting to the system!

AMD says the Pro line officially supports ECC so I think the error reporting part is only guaranteed to work with those CPUs. But I only tested those two models so I can't be sure.

 

[Soulkeeper]

My x370 gigabyte gaming7 motherboard has supported ECC flawlessly for the past 5yrs.
You can only get validation with workstation/enterprise hardware. It's the same with video cards, the workstation ones have ecc enabled (some of them atleast).

Note that not all systems with a ryzen "pro" will work with ecc. I have a lenovo thinkpad laptop with a ryzen pro and ecc sodimms ... it don't support it because lenovo never enabled it.

 

[tamz_msc]

As an end user, I don't need the horsepower of anything more powerful than the 65 watt TDP Ryzen 7 8 core cpu. But by only requiring boards to be ECC enabling for their more powerful series processors, AMD's acting no better than Intel who only ECC enables their Xeon cpus, which run at 80 watt TDP minimum, are only available to business markets, and consequently offer fewer options for consumers.

Just get the Xeon W1370 with a W480 motherboard if you want guaranteed ECC support. Will 80 W vs 65 W even make that much of a difference?

 

[chane]

Just get the Xeon W1370 with a W480 motherboard if you want guaranteed ECC support. Will 80 W vs 65 W even make that much of a difference?

80 vs 65 watts may not be huge although many users seem divided on whether certain AMD families tend to render and/or encode more efficiently for video editing than Intel. Speaking of which, as I do no gaming but may eventually do some video editing (though more likely just hard deleting of parts of Blu-ray movie scenes using demuxing /remuxing software), the older Comet Lake Xeon did score way better on the Cinebench and Handbrake benchmarks than Rocket Lake by more than 380/300 watts. https://www.pcworld.com/article/394...1th-gen-rocket-lake-which-should-you-buy.html That’s huge. As for AMD, the ECC RAM verifiable series is priced sensibly for my needs and their TDPs are equally
sensible-and with Alder Lake Xeons still months away-Comet Lake Xeon looks to be the logical choice.

 

[tamz_msc]

80 vs 65 watts may not be huge although many users seem divided on whether certain AMD families tend to render and/or encode more efficiently for video editing than Intel. Speaking of which, as I do no gaming but may eventually do some video editing (though more likely just hard deleting of parts of Blu-ray movie scenes using demuxing /remuxing software), the older Comet Lake Xeon did score way better on the Cinebench and Handbrake benchmarks than Rocket Lake by more than 380/300 watts. https://www.pcworld.com/article/394...1th-gen-rocket-lake-which-should-you-buy.html That’s huge. As for AMD, the ECC RAM verifiable series is priced sensibly for my needs and their TDPs are equally
sensible-and with Alder Lake Xeons still months away-Comet Lake Xeon looks to be the logical choice.

Do you plan to use a discrete GPU? If not, then the only way you're getting ECC on AMD is to buy a PRO APU, like the PRO 5750G.

 

[chane]

Do you plan to use a discrete GPU? If not, then the only way you're getting ECC on AMD is to buy a PRO APU, like the PRO 5750G.

No, I would be using a video card like https://www.techpowerup.com/review/evga-geforce-gtx-1660-super-sc-ultra/ , well, perhaps not that ancient, but hopefully at least as efficient. No gaming or even video editing; it would be used in a new HTPC and for Office 365 for my day job. So, ECC RAM is important for that and for helping to ensure bit accurate backups to my NAS and an offline document storage drive. Aren't there now low power (80 watt) AMD CPUs which guarantee ECC RAM functionality when used with a specific motherboard? I don't see what this has all been such a big mystery for this long.

 

[IEC]

AMD happens to have an official Epyc line for AM5 based on Zen 4:
EPYC 4004 series

Your best bet for official fully supported ECC is Epyc combined with a SuperMicro or ASRock Rack AM5 board.

Others may (un)officially support error injection. But they aren't designed for enterprise environments like the above.

 

[gdansk]

First, I'm not sure it is necessary to buy a SuperMicro or ASRock Rack AM5 motherboard since ECC seems to work on even cheap ASRock boards now.

For example I tested 2 x KSM56E46BD8KM-48HM and Linux reported ECC was enabled on two different consumer ASRock boards I have (X670E Steel Legend and B650M Pro RS). But if you're paying over $400 for memory maybe it's time to go older Epyc/Threadripper anyway.

If you do buy a server-grade AM5 board, is there any difference between 9564P and 7950X with respect to ECC support? I don't see any differences. AMD's site says it depends on the board and the ASRock Rack boards list the 7950X on their QVL. So from what I can tell there's no need to buy an Epyc AM5 CPU.

 

[chane]

AMD happens to have an official Epyc line for AM5 based on Zen 4:
EPYC 4004 series

Your best bet for official fully supported ECC is Epyc combined with a SuperMicro or ASRock Rack AM5 board.

Others may (un)officially support error injection. But they aren't designed for enterprise environments like the above.

I went here https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/server/epyc/4004-series/amd-epyc-4344p.html here
https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen-pro/8000-series/amd-ryzen-7-pro-8700g.html Nothing about ECC support, unlike here

Intel® Xeon® W-1370 Processor (16M Cache, up to 5.10 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Xeon® W-1370 Processor (16M Cache, up to 5.10 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

What's the problem with those AMD turkeys?

 

[burninatortech4]

I have a brand new unRAID build running a Ryzen 3 PRO 5350GE on an Asrock B550M PG-Riptide and 32GB of NEMIX ECC-UDIMM. I've confirmed multi-bit ECC is operating. Unless it's a work or livelihood environment - I don't think it's necessary to go EPYC + validated ECC.

 

[chane]

Wasn't it the Linux guy who said that there was no reason for non-ECC RAM as any speed bump is inconsequential compared to the increased level of data integrity. Why should I put my data at any more risk than necessary? I'm with him on this. And I still ask why those bums insist on making users jump through more hoops to get ECC RAM via AMD processors and AMD certified boards than Intel does?

 

[maddie]

Wasn't it the Linux guy who said that there was no reason for non-ECC RAM as any speed bump is inconsequential compared to the increased level of data integrity. Why should I put my data at any more risk than necessary? I'm with him on this. And I still ask why those bums insist on making users jump through more hoops to get ECC RAM via AMD processors and AMD certified boards than Intel does?

It's simple. Buy an Intel system instead and eliminate all your stress. Isn't this sort of situation why we have competition? For myself, I'm still running an old FX system with ECC DDR3 & ZFS raid.

 

[Markfw]

It's simple. Buy an Intel system instead and eliminate all your stress. Isn't this sort of situation why we have competition? For myself, I'm still running an old FX system with ECC DDR3 & ZFS raid.

In the first place the only thing he could buy is a Xeon, and anything from this decade will be beat by AMD desktop or EPYC. Buying an ECC system using DDR3 is insane in this decade.
And current SPR choices are not only expensive, but proven unreliable as of late.

 

[maddie]

In the first place the only thing he could buy is a Xeon, and anything from this decade will be beat by AMD desktop or EPYC. Buying an ECC system using DDR3 is insane in this decade.
And current SPR choices are not only expensive, but proven unreliable as of late.

Not suggesting a FX system, just saying that ECC and AMD have been a thing for many yrs.

Concerning the present, the ranting is tedious. For example, are there Intel DIY/consumer motherboards with certified ECC ram options?

 

[Markfw]

Not suggesting a FX system, just saying that ECC and AMD have been a thing for many yrs.

Concerning the present, the ranting is tedious. For example, are there Intel DIY/consumer motherboards with certified ECC ram options?

No, so why even mention anything about Intel ? off-topic

 

[maddie]

No, so why even mention anything about Intel ? off-topic

Because AMD is offering cheap ECC systems for the average user, yet we have these statements.

"And I still ask why those bums insist on making users jump through more hoops to get ECC RAM via AMD processors and AMD certified boards than Intel does?"

If you are so angry and unhappy, then buy an Intel system.

 

[chane]

I thought it would be obvious by now that my only interest in AMD is that somehow they are able to design and build processors which have long been substantially more efficient than Intel's-in fact the latter's last two generations are probably even less efficient that past ones like Comet lake. But why settle for an old CPU when there's modern AMD CPUs-but which AMD has some very weird issue with making ECC RAM supporting. What the hell is their problem with ECC RAM? How could it be it that difficult or expensive to implement?

 

[Shmee]

Hey guys, please chill out a bit. There is no need for the bickering and accusations. -AT Moderator Shmee

 

[gdansk]

What the **** is their problem with ECC RAM? How could it be it that difficult or expensive to implement?

?? As far as I can tell there is not a problem anymore. As I noted in my post even a $130 ASRock motherboard with a consumer 7950X worked with ECC memory. Meanwhile, in Intel land, what's the cheapest W680 board, about $330?

In either case, be it Intel or AMD, ECC support is more available on consumer parts than ever before.

 

[Doug S]

I think the ECC situation is going to get a lot better in a couple years, when LPDDR6 goes mainstream.

I was looking into this on AMD a while back and found the situation isn't as good as it "appears" to be. Boards will list ECC support, but when I looked into it people who actually tried it were saying that errors aren't reported to the OS. ECC without error reporting is no better than not having ECC. Worse, in fact, because you're paying more and getting no benefit from it.

The whole situation is too much of a mess, at least in the Ryzen space that I was investigating. Not worth bothering with if you're looking there. If you do figure out a combination you think will work make SURE you can return everything you're buying, and verify it actually works. The only reliable way would be to run a rowhammer on your system to force ECC errors (I would not trust any software that claims to "inject" ECC errors for testing purposes)

Its even worse on Intel, they've basically segmented ECC to higher end space, other than a few SKUs intended for embedded markets where data integrity matters (probably stuff intended to go in ATMs or the like)

 

[chane]

?? As far as I can tell there is not a problem anymore. As I noted in my post even a $130 ASRock motherboard with a consumer 7950X worked with ECC memory. Meanwhile, in Intel land, what's the cheapest W680 board, about $330?

Even on ASrock's own forum there are users with ECC functionality issues with those boards. https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=26925&title=update-on-am5-ecc-support