AMD RYZEN Builders Thread

[Hitman928]

A small business guy I know had a production machine that needed a serious upgrade. Needed to get it running ASAP for a project he's doing so I made him a list and he purchased all the parts from Fry's electronics Friday morning and I put it together for him. His main compute needs scale across cores well so we went with the 1700. Got him the Asus B350 plus and some Corsair 2666 MHz memory (CMU16GX4M2A2666C16) which I chose due to limited in store stock. It wasn't in the QVL but the same memory starting with CMK was and I figured it was the exact same modules just CMU has LEDs. Looks like I was right. Machine booted just fine with the memory running at JEDEC specs (2133 MHz). I updated to the latest bios, installed windows, then went back and turned on the DOCP option and it booted right up at 2666 MHz with the correct timings. Didn't have a single problem. The QVL list had the memory listed as compatible but only at 2133 MHz but that was probably with the original BIOS as it had no problem getting the faster memory and timings.

He's super happy with it. He walked out the door paying just under $750 (after tax) for a complete new build which is actually less than he paid, I believe, for the old computer (Haswell generation cpu) and got double the cores and it runs his heaviest stuff ~2x faster than the old computer (rough estimate after a small sample size)! Ryzen release was good timing for him. Eventually he wants to put together a really heavy duty server (20+ cores) but he won't have the money for that for a while and this will certainly hold him over for now.

 

[Markfw]

I thought 3600 showed a big increase?

Not sure, but I did see one review that used that speed. For the same price as 3200 cl14, you can get 3600 cl16.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232194

 

[Agent-47]

Not sure, but I did see one review that used that speed. For the same price as 3200 cl14, you can get 3600 cl16.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232194

technically speaking, all XMPs are OC. if the chips are well binned, even a 2400Mhz can hit 3600Mhz. the reason why some prefer higher advertised clocked is for the better-binned chips and have some confidence you can hit as high a clock.

Technically, I would agree with unseenmorbidity, that beyond 3600 we start getting diminishing returns, but with ryzen's CCX infinity fabric being tied to the IMC, it may be worth the effort. at least until someone shows in benchmark that the return is marginal.

 

[unseenmorbidity]

I thought 3600 showed a big increase?

There was the mindblank tech guy that did a review of 3600, but iirc he used 2933 and then increased the base clock to get to 3600. According to buildzoid, 3200 has loose subtimings, which makes it a poor choice for base clocking. I suspect 3200's subtimings would improve over time, but maybe that isn't possible. Either way, I believe 3200 is still better for gaming atm. Now whether 3600 or higher is even possible without Base clock overclocking has yet to be seen.

I would also suspect that each increase in memory speed has diminishing returns.

I am certainly no expert on this though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.


Here are some links with Ryzen and Memory Scaling.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_Memory_Analysis/12.html

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/958-5/jeux-battlefield-1-project-cars.html

BF1 shows almost a linear relationship between memory speed and increased FPS, but that is likely a best case scenario. Who knows what the future will bring.

 

[Malogeek]

whats the first 8 ts of digits of you sticks. have you passed it through Thaiphoon Burner

Yup mine are definitely Hynix then. Guess I should be glad I'm at least getting 2933. The CL14 TridentZ were just too much out of my budget.

 

[DrMrLordX]

As far as I know, NO motherboard supports anything over 3200 for AM4. This is what I got, the lowest CL (14) @3200 and it runs at rated speed and timings on a $89 motherboard.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232205

The only way to get over DDR4-3200 right now is bclk OC, so you are right that no motherboard officially supports such speeds. You can get there, though, and it looks like the C6H is one of the strongest ways to do it.

There is supposedly a clockspeed hole between DDR4-3200 and DDR4-3600 where the C6H struggles. That may apply to other bclk OC boards as well, and might explain my problems with bclk OC.

technically speaking, all XMPs are OC. if the chips are well binned, even a 2400Mhz can hit 3600Mhz. the reason why some prefer higher advertised clocked is for the better-binned chips and have some confidence you can hit as high a clock.

I went for high clocks to guarantee B-die. That's what I figured AMD would tune against with X370. Fortunately I was correct.

That being said, all B-die should behave about the same, with the higher bins being better candidates for high clocks. Poorer bins might need more voltage.

Technically, I would agree with unseenmorbidity, that beyond 3600 we start getting diminishing returns, but with ryzen's CCX infinity fabric being tied to the IMC, it may be worth the effort. at least until someone shows in benchmark that the return is marginal.

I would say that increasing infinity fabric speeds is the most important thing about RAM OC.

 

[EXCellR8]

running the 1700 at 3.8 ghz with the RAM at 2667 and I have yet to have any additional issues, with booting or shutting down.

i disabled the boost and c6 state CPU features, along with adjusting additional voltages. this is what typically happens, though, i think that I'm learning the platform and then BAM... total failure whilst doing something important. hopefully i can sort it out by the time the new RX cards hit the market.

 

[imported_jjj]

Turns out I bought some better looking FlareX Gskill Memory rated at 4000 Mhz.

1.94A on Taichi


PS: According to a guy on the asrock forums, he lost some speed with the 1.94a bios.

That is the best mem latency i have seen at those clocks and timings for Ryzen, have you tried even tighter timings?

 

[unseenmorbidity]

That is the best mem latency i have seen at those clocks and timings for Ryzen, have you tried even tighter timings?

I have not. I got it on the first attempt. I looked up the FlareX timings, loaded the XMP profile, and plugged those FlareX timings in and it worked. It's ran aida64 stability test for an hour and 15 minutes without issue, and then I went to grill some burgers.

I am not particularly savvy when it comes to memory OC'ing, so I was happy that somehow worked out.

According to HWmonitor, the VDDCR_soc is at 1.104, which seems kind of high, but still below the 1.2v recommendation I have heard. The DDR voltage was increased to 1.368v, which is also a tad high. Maybe this was loaded with the XMP?

If you had some suggestions, then I could certainly try it. To me, it just feels like picking numbers at random.

 

[imported_jjj]

I have not. I got it on the first attempt. I looked up the FlareX timings, loaded the XMP profile, and plugged those FlareX timings in and it worked. It's been running aida64 stability test for an hour and 15 minutes without issue. Then I went to make dinner.

I am not particularly savvy when it comes to memory OC'ing, so I was happy that somehow worked out.

According to HWmonitor, the VDDCR_soc is at 1.104, which seems kind of high, but still below the 1.2v recommendation I have heard. The DDR voltage was increased to 1.368v, which is also a tad high. Maybe this was loaded with the XMP?

If you had some suggestions, then I could certainly try it. To me, it just feels like picking numbers at random.

If you are pleased with it, wouldn't want to push you to experiment.
The mem latency score was very strong and was curious if you can do better.Maybe the secondary timings are tighter with this BIOS.

 

[Markfw]

Here are my results:

The read is almost identical to yours, but the latency and L1 cache are a little lower.. But I am still on my $89 mobo, my Taichi like you used is still on the way (maybe Tuesday)

 

[Shlong]

So I decided to visit my local Microcenter and they had one Taichi available so I quickly bought it ($30 MIR). They also had $30 off if you purchase a Ryzen CPU so I bought that as well. Now, I just need to select RAM. What RAM would you recommend for 16GB x 2 (32GB) that can run at least 2900/2933? I was thinking about these: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820236082&ignorebbr=1 CORSAIR Vengeance LED 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000)

 

[Agent-47]

I would say that increasing infinity fabric speeds is the most important thing about RAM OC.

Yes, I agree. I have never really OCed rams before, not saw the need to. Because i did not want a slow infinity fabric, I spent two weeks hunting for a high-speed ram for zen that fits my budget all over the internet. and eventually found a pair that was cheaper than 2400 Mhz (someone returned a pack with a broken box, hehe). I even got it without knowing for sure if was Hynix or Samsung.

Just heard back from MSI support team, they confirmed that even V1 bios will at least boot with ryzen 5 (apperently they never tested it before I asked). so i shall start hunting for a mATX board now. But i think I will go with either MSI/AsRock, despite them not supporting dual BIOS, as they seem to be pumping out BIOS revisions quite frequently.

 

[Agent-47]

So I decided to visit my local Microcenter and they had one Taichi available so I quickly bought it ($30 MIR). They also had $30 off if you purchase a Ryzen CPU so I bought that as well. Now, I just need to select RAM. What RAM would you recommend for 16GB x 2 (3200GB) that can run at least 2900/2933?

all 16 GB modules are dual rank, at least for G Skill and Corsair are dual rank. so it wont go as far as you might expect. but you never know.

download this file. it lists a lot of memory. look at the "# of rank" and choose something that is 1Rx8. then make sure "Chip Brand" is samsung. once you have a candidate, go back your AsRock QVL and see if it is listed. But do keep in mind that even rams with the same model no may have different IC. we like Samsung rev B. I donot know about Corsair, but for GSkill it will have a serial number of xxxx-X50X-xxxxxx.

http://download.gigabyte.asia/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_ga-z270x-gaming9.pdf

but do remember, even if you end up with the wrong module, by the end of 1H, AMD will probably have fixed the whole issue with hynix rams

 

[IEC]

I have that same ram being shipped to me Monday from Newegg. Hope it works on the C6H with 1002 BIOS.

I would expect it to work fine. The C6H had the best memory support at launch and still seems to be leading the race to 3600MHz+ via BCLK OC.

Neither my MSI B350 board or my Gigabyte B350 board will run my dual-rank G.Skill sticks at > 2400, while on the C6H I could run 2666 + BCLK --> 2800MHz effective. MSI B350 board runs the Flare X 3200 @ 3200 CL14 with 1 click in BIOS. Gigabyte fails to boot at 3200 and I had stability issues at 2933.

YMMV until the expected AGESA and BIOS updates. With Elmor and the ASUS R&D guys testing Samsung B-die so much I expect you'll have no issue with the Flare X.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Finally got my system up and running... Cant figure out how to share and post photo's though.
I am trying to link pictures in my photobucket account..

 

[Shlong]

all 16 GB modules are dual rank, at least for G Skill and Corsair are dual rank. so it wont go as far as you might expect. but you never know.

download this file. it lists a lot of memory. look at the "# of rank" and choose something that is 1Rx8. then make sure "Chip Brand" is samsung. once you have a candidate, go back your AsRock QVL and see if it is listed. But do keep in mind that even rams with the same model no may have different IC. we like Samsung rev B. I donot know about Corsair, but for GSkill it will have a serial number of xxxx-X50X-xxxxxx.

http://download.gigabyte.asia/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_ga-z270x-gaming9.pdf

but do remember, even if you end up with the wrong module, by the end of 1H, AMD will probably have fixed the whole issue with hynix rams

Thanks, I think I will go with these: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232413 I believe they're Samsung B-dies and not Hynix. It should be 100% guaranteed to boot 2666, 70% at 2933, and maybe 40% on 3200. I'll try them out.

 

[IEC]

Thanks, I think I will go with these: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232413 I believe they're Samsung B-dies and not Hynix. It should be 100% guaranteed to boot 2666, 70% at 2933, and maybe 40% on 3200. I'll try them out.

I have some dual rank G.Skill DIMMs that have those timings. They are not B-die, but YMMV.

AFAIK the only guaranteed B-die at 3200 is with the CL14 timings.

 

[Agent-47]

here are the list of information that I found during my hunt for DDR:

http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=58422 -- list of RAM and their IC
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/769399-Memory-IC-s-manufacturer-for-DDR4-desktop --- some common brands.
http://download.gigabyte.asia/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_ga-z270x-gaming9.pdf --- rank + IC without mentioning revision
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?283666-Figuring-out-G-Skill-s-SNs -- G Skill serial no decoder

there were some more, but i cannot seem to locate them in my browser history

from my research, all G Skill 3000 CL14, 3200 CL14, 3600 CL16 and 3733 CL17 are all on new Samsung IC. need 8GB module to ensure rev B. This may be true for other brands as well as all higher frequency kits have Samsung.

@Shlong: 16 GB are all dual ranked. so you will probably be limited to 2666 http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-ryzen-single-rank-versus-dual-rank-ddr4-memory-performance_192960/3

 

[Malogeek]

It's really damn nice to be able to play games at still smooth framerates whilst Handbrake is processing in the background. And only at stock 1700 speeds. These Ryzen's make very affordable multi-tasking beasts.

My ram seems to be fine running 16-16-16-36 now as well, which is better than it's normal timings as I can't push it to 3200. Once my Noctua + kit arrives later in the week I'll see what I can push it to again.

 

[Agent-47]

My ram seems to be fine running 16-16-16-36 now as well, which is better than it's normal timings as I can't push it to 3200. Once my Noctua + kit arrives later in the week I'll see what I can push it to again.

this table, is a rough indication of performance w.r.t. speed vs timing. primary reason why we see diminishing returns with increasing ram speed as a 3000C14 will match a 3400C16 (the lowest CL at 3400 to my knowledge). one has to remember though that it is all synthetic. only reason I think ram speed matters for us is we want Infinity to spin faster. and the only reason advertised CL is important is to ensure Samsung B die

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/ram-memory-timing.2475231/
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/940-5/cpu-ddr4-vs-ddr3-pratique.html

 

[imported_jjj]

this table, is a rough indication of performance w.r.t. speed vs timing. primary reason why we see diminishing returns with increasing ram speed as a 3000C14 will match a 3400C16 (the lowest CL at 3400 to my knowledge). one has to remember though that it is all synthetic. only reason I think ram speed matters for us is we want Infinity to spin faster. and the only reason advertised CL is important is to ensure Samsung B die

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/ram-memory-timing.2475231/
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/940-5/cpu-ddr4-vs-ddr3-pratique.html

You can't quote Intel data for Ryzen and Ryzen does scale above 3200.
Ryzen has higher returns with faster memory as the fabric is in tune with the memory clocks.
On top of that, you got 8 cores with just two memory channels so bandwidth per core can be more of a bottleneck in some BW hungry apps.
Timings might have a lesser relevance due to higher overall memory latency with Ryzen but it should gain a bit of relevance at high clocks when BIOS matures.
With Intel the sweet spot is 3000-3200MHz but with Ryzen you get a lot more out of faster DRAM. Doesn't mean that everybody needs very fast DRAM but some can see relevant benefits.You certainly get more bang for the buck than on Intel with faster DRAM.

 

[Agent-47]

You can't quote Intel data for Ryzen and Ryzen does scale above 3200.
Ryzen has higher returns with faster memory as the fabric is in tune with the memory clocks.
On top of that, you got 8 cores with just two memory channels so bandwidth per core can be more of bottleneck in some BW hungry apps.
Timings might have a lesser relevance due to higher overall memory latency with Ryzen but it should gain a bit of relevance at high clocks when BIOS matures.
With Intel the sweet spot is 3000-3200MHz but with Ryzen you get a lot more out of faster DRAM. Doesn't mean that everybody needs very fast DRAM but some can see relevant benefits.You certainly get more bang for the buck than on Intel with faster DRAM.

True. Maybe you are right. But would you be kind enough to share the source link. Its a little hard to interpret the graphs without their latencies.

Also its aida64 5.8. That version does not support a ryzen . bit it will still be an interesting read.

Edit: 10℅ performance increase with 9% jump in freq(assuming same CL, 3200 to 3500) where as 6% perf increase from 9% per increase?(assuming same CL, 2933 to 3200) ? Hmmmm

 

[imported_jjj]

True. Maybe you are write. But would you be kind enough to share the source link. Its a little hard to interpret the graphs without their latencies

Use Google Translate http://lab501.ro/featured-articles/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-overclocking-ddr4-si-nvme/8
As far as i can tell all are at 14-14-14-28 , with the one exception at 12-12-12-28
Don't have other reviews with reliable data above 3200MHz but the author of this review should know what he is doing http://hwbot.org/user/matose
As for the differences at 3200, my assumtion is that they might be mostly due to the hidden secondary timings.

Edit: The new AIDA should not impact memory BW and latency results.
The perf scaling is impacted by the secondary timings but it is what it is at this point in time and not much can be done about it for more reliable results today.

 

[IEC]

3200 strap is wonky right now and has bad secondary timings. That's why you don't see the better scaling at 3200 vs BCLK OC to 3500-3600. There's also a "hole" between 3200-3400 where most people can't boot/attain stability currently. Either lower or higher clocks work fine.