AMD Ryzen SKU and Price Information/Speculation.

[Agent-47]

We can at least expect, that while getting closer to Intel's price/performance levels, demand for Ryzen will drop more quickly. But as I said, it's difficult to get the picture of all this happening, as there are tons of layered curves influencing each other for each chipmaker's product stacks and the overall market.

But let's stay at the less complex level. The other part might be interesting for a biz sim game. I found another nice diagram, showing the effects more clearly (and prices look more like CPU prices ):

An interesting point is the shrinking unit demand at lower prices. Could that happen for CPUs? I think, it could in cases like this: The curve depicts sales for just one specific model. At lower price points, the remaining system costs (maybe already ~$1K) might not justify buying that specific model, as the higher performing one might just cost $50 more.

True. very complicated to see when you have so many skews.

Another thing that got me thinking last night was what happens if intel starts a price war. it seems all the curves in your plot will move towards south-west-west, more dramatically for AMD compared to intel. That will lead to shirking demand profit and demand.

As for a fall in demand like you postulated, from the academic point of view, all the curves will move to the left, while the revenue will also fall of course.

Also, I am sure there is no economic model that can represent fanboyism purchases I like to think there are more intel fanboys compared to amd ones, especially considering it has been 15-18 years since K6/Thunderbird/K8 days.

 

[Ancalagon44]

An interesting point is the shrinking unit demand at lower prices. Could that happen for CPUs? I think, it could in cases like this: The curve depicts sales for just one specific model. At lower price points, the remaining system costs (maybe already ~$1K) might not justify buying that specific model, as the higher performing one might just cost $50 more.

As far as I remember, it depends on what type of good it is. For example, some goods are in demand because they are expensive - purchasing them shows you have the finances to afford them. If they were cheap, they would not be a status symbol, and people would not want them as much.

Other possibilities are things like crutches. You don't need crutches all that often, so if they suddenly had a 75% sale on crutches, you aren't going to rush out and stock up. I

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, the total demand is important as well. When there is limited demand, (as there is clearly in high end cpus with no IGP), there is a limit to how much you can increase sales with lower prices. OTOH, AMD's share of this market is essentially 0 now, so they have a lot more potential sales to gain than Intel. I have a feeling though that it will be academic for a while, and if Ryzen lives up to the hype over a wide range of benchmarks it will sell above list, just like the 480 and 1060 did for a few months after launch.

 

[Agent-47]

just like the 480 and 1060 did for a few months after launch.

was 480 more expensive at launch? here in UK the prices have hardly moved, and only reason it appears cheaper today compared to when i bought mine in Aug is because of PowerColor's cheap boards. My MSI Gaming X is still £229, like it was in Aug.

Maybe it's a Brexit effect

 

[Crumpet]

3 months ago I bought an rx470 4gb for a friend, £132.99

Today, same store, same graphics card, £188.99

 

[Agent-47]

£133 for 470 is very good price.
Gaming X 470 has hovered between £180-189 according to pricespy since its inception : https://pricespy.co.uk/product.php?pu=3823047

 

[Crumpet]

Yeah, had I known that was going to be the trend I would have gotten one for myself too.

 

[Mopetar]

I also found that odd, but it's true for i7 vs the i5 as well. HT probably doesn't affect clock speeds to the same extent as extra cores, but the difference is still there, yet the i7 is the faster stock CPU.

3.8 Ghz 7600k
4.2 Ghz 7700k

I assume it's mostly marketing to make the more expensive CPUs look more appealing. Even if the more expensive CPUs are binned, I don't see why these lower end CPUs couldn't overclock at least as high as their bigger brothers. But again, most people don't overclock, so the more expensive CPUs seem better than they really are.

For Intel it makes some sense though. Most i5 chips probably have functional SMT circuits but they couldn't clock high enough within TDP limits to be an i7 so the HT gets turned off and they get sold as an i5. Since all Ryzen is a single die, it seems rather unlikely that they'd be unable to make salvage parts clock as high, especially since there's extra dead cores to soak and spread the heat around.

Also Inel locked down the lower end chips. If any Ryzen can OC with the right board, AMD might have problems selling the high end chips, just like when you could unlock the 4th core in their three core CPUs. Why buy the top model if you can spend less and gamble on getting similar performance with good odds?

 

[Crumpet]

I have the worst luck. Screw gambling, i'll pay for a top end chip.
Have fun on the lottery lads.

 

[plopke]

If those are accurate prices , then time for me to upgrade my 750. But the question will be which one , they all look tempting from 1300 and up. A shame memory prices are so high in 2017 and I had to return my 32gb crucial ddr4 because had one faulty dimm and they could not replace it.

But did AMD not always state they would only release the high end in 1Q2017 , so we will only see 1700-1800X in the beginning of 1H2017?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Images also illustrate two different Tcase Max temps, if they would need a special cooler then Tcase Max would be the same for both at 72.4C.

One 95W series of chips needing sub 60C Tcase to remain within TDP. The other series of 95W chips can use above 70C Tcase and still stay within TDP. These 2 series of chips are clearly not identical.

 

[mohit9206]

$175 for 4C/8T is good value.
$129 for 4C/4T is not a good value because Pentium G4560 which is 2C/4T is half the price.
The 4C/4T model needs to hit $100 to be good value.

 

[inf64]

$175 for 4C/8T is good value.
$129 for 4C/4T is not a good value because Pentium G4560 which is 2C/4T is half the price.
The 4C/4T model needs to hit $100 to be good value.

Locked dual core with SMT cannot be seriously compared to a true QC chip. That is the same as saying that G4560 is better value than lower priced 4C i5 like i5 6500 or i5 7400. They are massively better chips than that pentium. With Ryzen you even get unlocked multiplier unlike on these 2 i5s I used in comparison.

 

[AtenRa]

One 95W series of chips needing sub 60C Tcase to remain within TDP. The other series of 95W chips can use above 70C Tcase and still stay within TDP. These 2 series of chips are clearly not identical.

If you use the same cooler to the other CPU it will also have sub 60C Tcase, its the cooler that makes the Tcase difference not the CPU.

 

[AtenRa]

Locked dual core with SMT cannot be seriously compared to a true QC chip. That is the same as saying that G4560 is better value than lower priced 4C i5 like i5 6500 or i5 7400. They are massively better chips than that pentium. With Ryzen you even get unlocked multiplier unlike on these 2 i5s I used in comparison.

If those prices are true then Core i3/5 are doa the moment Ryzen will launch.

 

[Agent-47]

If those prices are true then Core i3/5 are doa the moment Ryzen will launch.

They will probably relegate all 2c2t to the bins, 2c4t as pentium, 4c4t to i3, 4c8t to i5, and higher to i7. But I don't see it happening before 2018.

 

[Phynaz]

well if we look at the naming of the new processors, including the choice of "ryzen" over "zen", i think their marketing is still pretty abysmal

They couldn't trademark Zen.

 

[Eug]

Is there any info as to PlayReady 3.0 and Netflix 4K support?

Note that I am more interested in the lower end (mainstream & budget) SKUs, not the top end ones. I'm interested both in laptop CPUs and desktop CPUs, although for AMD mainly I'm interested on the desktop side.

 

[Teizo]

They couldn't trademark Zen.

Still pretty ridiculous they are blaspheming Zen Buddhism with the name, but oh well....Zen Buddhist don't really care since the name gets thrown around all the time because it is catchy sounding....but still it is pretty silly on their part if you ask me as someone who is an advocate of Zen Buddhism for them do that. I can sorta understand why, but I think they could have chosen a more tech type name rather than trying to cash in on nirvana based marketing.

All that aside, these new chips look promising, but what I find confusing is the pricing structure. The 1700X is supposed to go head to head with the 7700k, and instead of charging less or equal they are charging more for it. I was hoping to see them under cut Intel by about $20 bucks or so and force a price drop for Intel. It doesn't look like that is going to happen. I don't think overall the 1800X is going to beat the 6900k, but it should be competitive with it so maybe in that regard they can help lower the barrier to entry to the X99 platform from Intel to forcing them to lower prices for it....which may just be the reason they are introducing the 7640k and 7740k X299 chip a little later this year.

 

[LTC8K6]

The 7740K and 7640K are for expensive LGA 2066 boards. They should not be in the ballpark of RyZen boards.

 

[AtenRa]

The 7740K and 7640K are for expensive LGA 2066 boards. They should not be in the ballpark of RyZen boards.

There are expensive AM4 boards as well, some of them are more expensive than cheap socket 2011-v3 boards today.

 

[frozentundra123456]

If those prices are true then Core i3/5 are doa the moment Ryzen will launch.

Not really, since they all have an igpu, and are therefore more useful for the majority of use cases.

 

[AtenRa]

Not really, since they all have an igpu, and are therefore more useful for the majority of use cases.

Im talking about the dGPU gamers.

 

[LTC8K6]

Not really, since they all have an igpu, and are therefore more useful for the majority of use cases.

Yes, it's the RyZen 4c/8t APU that could kill i3/i5/i7 sales, but it is not being launched for a while, apparently.

 

[coercitiv]

Not really, since they all have an igpu, and are therefore more useful for the majority of use cases.

We're so close of comparing $200 i5 6500 vs. $129 R3 1100 + $100 RX 460 it's not even funny anymore.