AMD Smokes...

[ST4RCUTTER]

My point was that motorola produces chips at dresden, right? That's still less maximum production for AMD. About the losses for AMD, who cares where they came from, point is, they came. For a company who's income for the past 12 months is 752 million, I'd be worried.

As far as I know, Motorola doesn't make anything out of Fab 30. They licensed their technology to AMD. AMD doesn't produce anything for them in return, they just pay them. AMD also has a bit of money in the bank so they should be able to ride this recession out.


edit: Oh yeah, besides Dresden, they also have FASL I and II in Japan. These fabs are joint ventures with Fujitsu Ltd. and produce flash memory.

 

[Imperium97]

I see. We'll have to look into this. I was under the impression they made things at dresden but i can certainly be wrong about that

 

[ST4RCUTTER]

Imperium97,

I think I know what you might have meant by Motorola using Dresden to fab their procs. These articles are kind of old, and I don't remember if the deal actually went through but Motorola was interested in using Dresden to outsource in time of need. Here's the links:


Link 1

Link 2



As far as I know though Motorola has yet to get anything fabbed at Dresden.

 

[Imperium97]

" The 64M DRAMs produced in the fully integrated 300 mm line at
Dresden are being shipped to Infineon customers and the open market.
Feature size is quarter micron technology, packaged in a standard
Thin Small Outline Package (TSOP)."

I got this from here
From what I understand, part of the reason motorola and amd joined forces is because motorola needed more fabs. AMD did as well but they had no money.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/6902.html
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2304392,00.html




Edit: Lol, good timing.

 

[ST4RCUTTER]

Yeah, we seem to have run into the same articles. I think the 300mm wafer thing was because AMD (Dresden) were partners in the development of 300mm wafers. I'm not sure if that would constitute a product for Motorola. I also think that AMD eventually rejected to share ownership of Dresden with Motorola because they needed all the production facilities for their then new Athlons...I could be wrong though.

 

[obiwann]

no I am not new to computers and actually I am a web and multimedia designer that need a solid work satiation. so I am worried about stability.


Hi, me too iam a multimedia designer, i recomand you to go with a Pentium4, they have great performance and stability.
And they are great with multimedia software.

But if you don't have a lots of money, then maybe an Athlon will do the job.

good luck.

 

[Rectalfier]

<<<<<"i think that a lot of people are mistaken as far as the price difference between amd and intel goes... on a clock for clock basis, they are very similar... within $15-20">>>>>

FatFrancis, I don't think you understand that an equivalence of Mhz does not equate to the same performance. Athlon's are faster clcok for clock.

<<<<<"so we'll say $70 difference... maybe a little more, but not much..">>>>>

This means that anyone buying a P4 system based on clock speed is paying $70 dollars more, and is getting about 30 percent less performance. This means that Intel has far worse price/performance than AMD. And yes you can buy two AMD systems for the price of an Intel.

2 Athlon 1.4ghz+ 2 SIS 735 with 512 DDRAM is cheaper than a P4 2.0Ghz with i850 and 256 Rdram. Not only is it cheaper, but each system in itself performs better than the Intel part. Overall you get over twice the performance for less than the cost of Intel.

P4 is getting more attractive everday, but it' won't be in my computer untill Intel can match or beat AMD on price/performance.

 

[Kingofcomputer]

<< I'm sure a lot of people. Why go through the hassle of burning a chip up during installation and then having to get another one? Is it 100% certain AMD will replace your chip? >>

How could a cpu get burned during installation if the user follows the instruction and install it properly? Retail amd cpu comes with good instruction with pictures, oem users can download the pdf of that part from amd website. In US, all manufacturers give you a new or refurb item immedaitely when you request the warranty service. I've been using retail cpu(s) for many years, no problem at all. The retail hsf is high quality stuff (intel uses sanyo denki fan), the heaksink can't be loosed out as the latches hold it very tight.

 

[Imperium97]

If you don't want to pay for rambus and an i850, then don't. The shuttle AV40 and DDR ram is a lot less expensive.

 

[Lord Gwynz]

<< using retail cpu(s) for many years, no problem at all. The retail hsf is high quality stuff (intel uses sanyo denki fan), the heaksink can't be loosed out as the latches hold it very tight. >>



I think the tab on the socket getting sheared right off by a tightly tensioned clip is more likely the problem. But aren't heatsink manufacturers moving away from that design anyway and using that other mounting method available on newer boards that have those four holes by the socket?

 

[NOS440]

Flame bait

 

[robg1701]

MOT doesnt have anything to do with FAB30 other than the joint development of the process AFAIK.... i havent really looked at the links much, but i dont think i need to...AMD dont do FABing for Infineon last i looked....Dresden FAB30 is at 0.18 and 0.13, not 0.25.....AMD doesnt have any 300mm production....Motorola do....in THIER dresden FAB......MOT have a 300mm FAB in dresden.........see where im going with this ?

 

[NesuD]

<< I dont know about the money thing but only a few montherboards have the technology you speak of. I'd rather have peace of mind. >>



Sorry Tex but many boards have a built in thermal shutdown sequence in the bios that should work just fine for fan failure situations.

both slot A and SocketA board i own have this feature in the bios. One is a Gigabyte and one is an MSi to must have misread and assumed i was speaking to the palomino which i was not although the feature would work just as well with it as a tbird. I am not even speaking to the possibility of a properly installed heatsink falling off as the possibility of that happening is to remote to really consider. I was simply speaking to the event of a fan failure. Many boards using nothing more than a socket thermistor have an over heat protection built right into the motherboard bios that will power off the system in the event the thermistor reports a certain temp which can usually be set to 70c. That temp is not anywhere near hot enough to kill a Athlon. It does work as i found out once when i forgot to plug in my fan.


<< And for those who say socket-thermistors throttle back at 70C... they react too slowly to sharp temp increases. There's no way it'd be able to tell from startup, taht there's no heatsink and it should throttle back. >>


Umm not sure if that was meant for me Mike but if it was you didn't read close enough. I only offered that as a solution for fan failure situations not for a missing or improperly installed heatsink.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Irregardless... i wasn't aiming it any one person....

The problem is taht even a fan failure in a sub-par case with sub-par cpu cooling and the socket-thermistor still wont' register fast enough to save it.. 70C socket-thermistor on some boards could be 100C core temp...

And it doesn't solve the issue of a user mis-mounting a heatsink upon initial installation....



Mike

 

[Dravic]

The vast majority of athon mb have a missing fan fail safe built into teh mother board/bios. Both my kt133 and kt266 chipset boards wont even boot up without a fan installed, and will shut down if the fan were to fail.

Search these very forum and see how many times people couldnt get there amd setups to boot up, then realized they had the fan hearder plugged into fan2 instead of fan1.

Any Heatsink with good case cooling will survive long enough for the user to notice the performance loss and errors that will occur from a hot running cpu.

The video is an extreme case. Its not goin to happen. when was the last time your heatsink fell off? when was the last time someone you knew had a heatskink fall off? exactly..

Yes, Amd needs a better thermal protectiong scheme, but to base you purchase on that video is kind of.. well.. ignorant.. not to call anyone names, but it doesnt make much sense..

 

[Mikewarrior2]

I'm not basing it on the video... I've been basing it on the information i've gathered for 18 months... Socket-thermistors are inadequate, and its clear that even the internal diode is inadequate, for reasons beyond toms video... the fact that the vast majority of motherboards don't support it, adn those who do have no way of reading it in windows.



Mike

P.S. Here's a case from a user in our own Cpu/Processors and Overclocking Forum: His Chip burned up in 2 seconds despite a seemingly well mounted heatsink. That is why better measures must be taken to ensure system fail-safe measures... its clear that even the mb throttling wouldn't have saved this chip... Chip protection must be reliant on teh chip internally, not a motherboard.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Btw, NEsud,

70C is already too late...


DBcrossFire's chip. DbCrossfire has found that his chip is fried... with an external thermistor reading of 70C... so that would probably equate to a socket-thermistor of 60C or so....



Mike

 

[Ne0]

Well my motherboard has an option to shut down the system when the cpu reaches a certain temperature. I think most mobo's have this option. Mine's is set at 70 degrees Celcius, not too much to worry about.

 

[Wingznut]

Mike's point is that even though many motherboards have that provision... That doesn't mean it will be able to react quick enough to save the cpu.

I still REALLY want to see some tests by simulating the cpu fan failing. I'll do my P4, if someone else will do their Athlon.

Hell, Pabster has both... Let's get him to try it! He'll try anything!

 

[Pabster]

quick, someone hide my rigs!

tell ya what ... I'll try it on the P4, but I'll require a $500 deposit to try it on Pally

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Lets start a fund for Pabster

Neo,

Like I said and WingzNut has said... 70C on a socket-thermistor might be too late for the cpu.... dpeending on the motherboard, 70C could be 100C core temp.



Mike

 

[NOS440]

I donate $5 to the Pabster fry his Pally fund. We can all use paypal