AMD Smoother than Intel?

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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,447
10,116
126
The fastest CPU is by definition the smoothest, right?

Not necessarily. I'm reminded of SiS's "Mutoil" bus interface, between the northbridge and southbridge, and how it lowered latency through multiplexing the bus intelligently.

Thinking of things like the multiplexing of the HyperTransport bus, versus the latency of Intel's ring-bus L3 cache.

I could easily see how AMD could be perceived as smoother.

A locomotive can carry a lot of cargo quickly, right? But just because of that benchmark, you wouldn't say it's "smoother" than a recent-model Cadillac car, right?

http://www.pcstats.com/releaseview.cfm?releaseID=1044
It not only works closely with AMD’s Opetron and Athlon 64 CPUs to ensure the optimal performance of bandwidth, but also achieves low-latency and high-efficiency in data transmission. Moreover, the mature MuTIOL®1G technology, also developed by SiS, promises the smoothest data transfer between South and North Bridges. By adopting SiS’ revolutionary HyperStreaming™ Technology and the intellectual data-processing module, SiS760 offers the best performance for the AMD 64-bit platform and the most efficient resource distribution. The data transmission can be processed either synchronously or by batch to evidently improve system performance of High-End processor.
 
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escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,339
122
106
That's it. I'm buying me a 4960X and an Asus Rampage Black IV with 64GB RAM . . . . . for browsing the internet. :awe:
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,516
13,090
136
What? Why stop there? I am sure AMD chips have souls while Intel ones are just empty machines ...
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
That's it. I'm buying me a 4960X and an Asus Rampage Black IV with 64GB RAM . . . . . for browsing the internet. :awe:

Careful, you don't want to underspec your machine and regret it 6 months later. I frankly recommend at least quad-socket Ivy Bridge EX.
 

Renob

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
7,596
1
81
I have a fx 6300 and bounce back and from from amd to intel I think this is funny but I also think the people talking about how much power they use is funny 2 lol when did the build it yourself crowd go all GREEN on me.. oh and love the fan boys from each side I just go with bang for the buck at the time never getting the flagship chips...and theses systems always play the cool games no prob...
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
Maybe, but what if one person owning an Intel and AMD cpu told you the Intel cpu was smoother and another person owning the same cpu's told you the AMD was smoother?
I'd rather have opinions from people that actually have the hardware, not "what ifs".
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Intel beats AMD on benchmarks. No dispute from me. But 2 years ago when I switched from an AMD X4 950 to an i7 2600k, I noticed the system wasn't as smooth or fluid feeling. Has anyone else suspected that while Intel is faster, the AMD seems to run more fluidly and smoother? I am thinking about switching to an FX-6350 or FX-8350.

Did you do a re-install of windows in the meantime? Windows can get royally screwed up when you transfer the install on imaging basis or just change hardware and it works afterwards. I've run into this a number of times. The smoothness will return on re-install
 

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
1,651
473
136
IIRC, the stuttering and latency was narrowed down to hyperthreading. I've noticed it also on people's PCs that I work on, the AMD systems feel more responsive. It's almost like mouse lag. Hard to describe I guess but it's noticeable. Perhaps 2D drivers are causing the microstutter as intel is known for crappy video drivers, but i've never had much luck after trying different versions. This was brought up a couple years ago too, perhaps reviewers should do some more investigating.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,760
1,155
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When AMD actually had faster processors than Intel, we saw people who were previously Intel owners, switch over to AMD in record numbers, yet no one ever mentioned "smoothness". :hmm:

Now when AMD is significantly behind Intel in performance, and has a massively dwindling user base, up pops the "smoothness". :sneaky:

Even with AMD's less than stellar implementation of CMT, where the transition to the second core in a module causes performance degradation, still we get to luxuriate in talk of "smoothness".

Back in the day it was noticeable.

All the intel chips back then were still running over the FSB. When the athlon 64 came out with the memory controller on die it felt smoother to me. Then again when you loaded the P4 heavy but had HT on the P4 felt alittle smoother.

However that was a long time ago and both intel and amd chips have intergrated Memory controllers now so whatever you were feeling was either placebo effect or something else was wrong in the system.
 
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ashetos

Senior member
Jul 23, 2013
254
14
76
Intel's performance is stellar, but my experience with hyperthreading technology is the worst. If anyone ever has latency issues with an intel CPU I bet it's a hyperthreaded one.

AMD's CMT is so much better as an experience. The problem with AMD is of course performance, and performance per watt.

Now Intel with CMT, that's something I would like to see.
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,899
193
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naw, can't settle for such low clock rates, you should contact intel and have them make you a custom batch of 1000 chips with whatever a ~300W TDP target delivers

Who wants 300W CPUs these days? Ask Intel for some secret III-V, carbon nanotube or graphene processors.
 

PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
1,118
168
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Intel's performance is stellar, but my experience with hyperthreading technology is the worst. If anyone ever has latency issues with an intel CPU I bet it's a hyperthreaded one.

AMD's CMT is so much better as an experience. The problem with AMD is of course performance, and performance per watt.

Now Intel with CMT, that's something I would like to see.

Only can imagine the drooling over this forum when this happens. Meanwhile, the rest of us who can tell a good design decision apart from the company who made it will have a good laugh.

CMT is godsend for those wanting inexpensive multitasking.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
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Logical thinking has left the building. All the undocumented claims in this thread are just that. Unproven statements from posters who may see just what they want to see with way too many possible variables to deduce any cause and effect.

But at least I am glad to learn that our research team will not have to waste money analyzing the samples we have collected during last five years. We can make up whatever conclusions we want, and get it published by saying, we feel like our drug made the subjects better.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
0
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CMT is godsend for those wanting inexpensive multitasking.

What do you mean by inexpensive multitasking? CMT designs have worse performance/area than comparable designs, meaning that it will have higher production costs, and they lived a lot of time inside R&D pipeline of both Sun and AMD, meaning that it needed *a lot* more R&D funding than comparable non-CMT designs.

Sun didn't even bother to launch their CMT product, with Larry Ellison lambasting the project with this:

Larry Ellison said:
“This processor had two incredible virtues: It was incredibly slow and it consumed vast amounts of energy. It was so hot that they had to put about 12 inches of cooling fans on top of it to cool the processor,”

AMD did indeed launch their CMT design, but it doesn't mean much. AMD never had margins so low in their CPU business since their started fielding their own designs and they lost share in every single segment where they fielded their CMT designs. The fact that AMD has to sell these chips very cheap is only a symptom of the overall weakness of the product, not a feature derived from the design choice.

In fact all the supposed economic benefits of CMT are purely theoretical. Everyone who tried the thing failed miserably, and the leaders of every computer segment (ARM, Intel, IBM), who actually had the resources to experiment with the concept didn't even bother with it. In fact, Andy Glew, the father of the concept inside AMD, worked for Intel before and couldn't make the concept take roots there, we can only wonder why.
 
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TeknoBug

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2013
2,084
31
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Intel's are generally far more smooth in many games. The key issue is not average fps, but higher *minimum* fps as a result of lesser-well threaded games (or even lesser-well threaded areas / maps that are within a generally heavily threaded game) that soak up IPC & MHz and end up sporadically bottlenecking on even 5GHz OC'd AMD's. Eg:-

Skyrim:-
i5-3570K @ 3.4GHz = 88 min / 145 avg
FX-8350 @ 4.0GHz = 39 min / 90 avg
FX-8350 @ 4.8GHz = 45 min / 107 avg
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/06/12/intel-core-i5-4670k-haswell-cpu-review/5
http://media.bestofmicro.com/7/G/315196/original/CPU-Core.png

The issue is not "average fps are all above 60fps so it's OK", it's 39fps vs 88fps min fps that makes the i5 feel & play much more smoothly especially in "busy" city areas. With VSync enabled on a 60Hz monitor, i5 & FX-8350 will both show "60fps average" in most areas. But min fps will still be 60 i5 vs 39 FX-8350, which is very noticeable when gaming in terms of "smoothness".

Likewise in BF4, an FX-8320 is 49min and an i5-4570 60min. Both cost the same $160 at Microcenter. OC the former to 5Ghz to match, and you've now got almost 200w higher power consumption adding roughly $10-20 annual running costs (plus water cooling costs) at which point same fair TCO over 2-3 years is now more like FX-8320 @ 5GHz vs i5-4670K @ 4.5GHz, and the gap promptly widens again - and that's in a game that should theoretically be "smoother" for AMD's with +4 threads in use...

AMD's aren't totally horrible chips, but an i5 over an FX-8320 is very definitely worth it for up to 125% higher min fps and generally smoother gameplay in 99.9% of the 50,000 or so PC games written over the past 30 years. Few games load 4-8 cores equally (it's often a load of 70-95% / 60-90% / 20-50% / 15-45%, etc), and even those that can split the load across 8 cores are often not consistently well threaded even from one map to another within the same game. When one "main" FX core goes past 100% load with code that's not easily threadable, your min fps will dip whether you have 7 or 700 spare cores. Of course, the same is true for Intel when an i5 core goes past 100%, but having 60-65% faster IPC cores per clock, it happens far less often.

As much as some AMD people may not like to admit it, single-threaded benchmarks can actually give a very valid reflection of higher min fps in many games (and how smooth the game is when "spiking"), regardless of what the avg fps may be. And IPC is still king even on "next gen" games. With poorly threaded games, min fps are up to 50%, 60%, even 70% higher on stronger Intel cores even with similar avg fps. Conversely even with heavily threaded games, with 4 strong cores, even massive under-clocking can have little negative effect on performance.

Just as my old AMD X2 felt more smoother than Intel's P4, today Intel's core architecture just feels much more smoother than even OC'd AMD's, and when you ignore avg fps and look objectively at the min fps "spikes" in many games it's obvious why.

This. The term "smooth" in gaming is usually about min frames and Intel is king in that. Games like Planetside 2 are way smother on intel than AMD even using the same components.

Source : I'm a LONG time AMD fan.
 

MustangSVT

Lifer
Oct 7, 2000
11,554
12
81
sigh... will AMD ever make a comeback?

this "slower but smoother" thing is quite sad.

I miss when I was OCing Amd chips like a champ.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,760
1,155
136
sigh... will AMD ever make a comeback?

this "slower but smoother" thing is quite sad.

I miss when I was OCing Amd chips like a champ.

I think the only way would be for intel to make a mistake.

And I highly doubt they will make another P4 they learned their lesson.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,797
11,143
136
People used to say that their single-core K8 chips felt smoother/snappier on the desktop than Intel chips with hyperthreading. It was generally agreed that this was due to the IMC. I'm not going to say that the OP is flat out wrong, nor will I say that he is right, but people have been saying things like that about AMD chips at various points in the recent past. In some cases, their observations may even have had some merit. Now, would Haswell or Ivy Bridge have some problem that made for choppy desktop use? I can't think of anything, with the possible exception of hyperthreading being active in situations when it was clearly unnecessary. On mono-core P4s with HT, most HT advocates actually liked it for the desktop, and that sort of makes sense. There were enough threads, even then, to keep the physical and logical core busy doing something, so long as the scheduler didn't assign anything too heft/important to the logical core. Today, I doubt there's any reason for an Intel quad to make use of HT during normal desktop use, no matter how many background threads might be running due to OS/application bloat. If the OS scheduler is throwing too many threads at the logical cores, then it could produce some problems. Maybe.

My crappy OCed Sargas monocore is plenty "snappy" in a windows 7 desktop environment. That being said, it's so cut down that it looks almost like win95, and I keep almost no background applications running.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
sigh... will AMD ever make a comeback?

this "slower but smoother" thing is quite sad.

I miss when I was OCing Amd chips like a champ.

I don't see how? Isn't the FX line done?
I honestly haven't heard much of anything news wise with AMD so I don't know what their future is looking like but I could have sworn it was APUs and Mobile.

Looks like intel has the high end market locked up.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,516
13,090
136
AMD Smoother than Intel

But how would you got about it scientifically?

- Wax your dinner table and slide them across with 'aboutish' the same force and see which chip travels furthest?
- Get two chips, aboutish equal in size, and drop em both from a tall building.. The one to hit the pavement first must surely be the smoothest.
- Make necklesses out of them, hit the clubs, whichever neckless gets you laid first must surely be the smoothest.

There is just so many ways to go about this, too many variables .. you have to be more specific.
 

tolis626

Senior member
Aug 25, 2013
399
0
76
I'm taking a shot in the dark here, but is there any chance you're running off the iGPU? These things suck. I don't know if it's driver issues or that the hardware itself is crap, but no PC I've seen using the iGPU on Intel CPUs is as smooth as it should be in general use, despite being more than powerful enough. The experience with AMD APUs has been more positive for me.

Now, if this was with a dGPU... Yeah, I too think it's nonsense.
 
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