Discussion AMD Threadripper 3000 series announcement and reviews

[Kocicak]

24 cores for 1400 and 32 cores for 2000 USD?

That is expensive. It does not put much pressure on Intel. It also does not motivate people too much to change platforms from AM4 to sTRX4. I must say I am surprised.

I bet that some people at Intel are pretty relieved now.

 

[Markfw]

It is true that the prices are higher than I expected.

The 2990wx was handicapped on memory access and other things and sold for $1800. This 3970x will blow the doors off of a 2990wx, and its only $200 more ? Sounds right to me.

 

[Atari2600]

I believe that it is better to have not only the best absolute performance, but also higher performance/price ratio.

I think by that yardstick, the best CPU in the world is something like a 2400G or similar!

High performance always comes with disproportionately higher price.

AMD are missing a 16C price point in their lineup. That is the problem. If there were a 16C TR3 @ $900 USD (or even $1000) - then no one would even blink an eye*.

*Apart from those among us not happy at the loss of X399 compatibility.

 

[Arkaign]

With a one-shot mobo, think I'll ride the old 2920 until their DDR5 offerings, look again in a year or two.

 

[dnavas]

AMD are missing a 16C price point in their lineup. That is the problem. If there were a 16C TR3 @ $900 USD (or even $1000) - then no one would even blink an eye*.

Robert Hallock on PC Worlds' Full Nerd said that the 29xx parts will slot between the 3950x and the 3960x+. So, if you don't want to pay for the 3960, get a 2970. Presumably the changes to the Windows scheduler will help some with the memory asymmetry.
1:02:43

[That just serves to increase my confidence that the next gen TRs will see the 3960 and 3970 get cheaper and slot under.... Patience my cheap comrades :>]

 

[Arkaign]

Is it really all that exciting to see so much Zen/Zen+ gear poking around in the 2020+ timeframe? Zen2 is so much better that it's kind of hard to get excited about the old stuff. At least they're not making 'TR3' "3000-series" Zen+ SKUs though. The Zen+ 3000 series APUs and laptop SKUs are slightly irritating, old gen stuff masquerading in the new model branding.

Intel used to be my primary irritant in stupid model names lol. Now it's BOTH OF THEM! Hahahah.

 

[Kocicak]

If there were a 16C TR3 @ $900 USD (or even $1000) - then no one would even blink an eye.

I expected 24C to be in that price bracket. It would not only press Intel, but draw some people originally planning to get 3900X or 3950X to get in the higher platform instead and also make many more people switch from Intel to AMD. With these high prices Intel users fine with 18C performance will just stay at Intel.

 

[Markfw]

I expected 24C to be in that price bracket. It would not only press Intel, but draw some people originally planning to get 3900X or 3950X to get in the higher platform instead and also make many more people switch from Intel to AMD. With these high prices Intel users fine with 18C performance will just stay at Intel.

Even at the same $/core the 24 core would be $1125, but then double the memory bandwidth and almost double the PCIE lanes ? $1400 is more appropriate.

Have you not read or understand any of my posts ? Not to mention that you can beat that 18 core part with a $800 24 core 2970wx.

 

[Kocicak]

Oh. I just realised. Intel was waiting for these prices to adjust their prices if necessary, right? I believe the prices announced today are not the true prices. I believe the prices will be lowered just before launch.

 

[MrTeal]

Even at the same $/core the 24 core would be $1125, but then double the memory bandwidth and almost double the PCIE lanes ? $1400 is more appropriate.

Have you not read or understand any of my posts ? Not to mention that you can beat that 18 core part with a $800 24 core 2970wx.

Even with the previous gen, the 2700X was released at $329 for 8 cores while the 2950X was $899. Even the low end 2920X was twice the money for 50% more cores.

 

[Markfw]

Even with the previous gen, the 2700X was released at $329 for 8 cores while the 2950X was $899. Even the low end 2920X was twice the money for 50% more cores.

You are comparing AM4 to TR4, you can't do that, as the TR4 platform has a lot more capability than the AM4

 

[Markfw]

Oh. I just realised. Intel was waiting for these prices to adjust their prices if necessary, right? I believe the prices announced today are not the true prices. I believe the prices will be lowered just before launch.

And I believe pigs will fly when that happens. NOT !!!!

 

[Arkaign]

You are comparing AM4 to TR4, you can't do that, as the TR4 platform has a lot more capability than the AM4

This is true. And Intel long ago set the stage for expensive segmentation above and beyond what one would consider a value proposition. AMD may be pricing these things higher than we'd like, but corporations are not out friends, nor charities. They'll charge what they can.

 

[Markfw]

This is true. And Intel long ago set the stage for expensive segmentation above and beyond what one would consider a value proposition. AMD may be pricing these things higher than we'd like, but corporations are not out friends, nor charities. They'll charge what they can.

Exactly. But their pricing is not out of line with previous TR4 chips. I paid $1800 for my 2990wx, and the new 3970x will blow its doors off for $200 more. I paid $1200 for my 2970wx. I got luck with my 2nd 2990wx at only $1100.

 

[dnavas]

And I believe pigs will fly when that happens. NOT !!!!

Heh. Maybe it would be more charitable to say that we can all wish for a price war, but as consumers, we shouldn't plan for one.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I expected 24C to be in that price bracket. It would not only press Intel, but draw some people originally planning to get 3900X or 3950X to get in the higher platform instead and also make many more people switch from Intel to AMD. With these high prices Intel users fine with 18C performance will just stay at Intel.

The 2970 is $916 new on Amazon. I've been considering building a TR rig for a long time now and was waiting for this release to look at my options, but I think I'm going to hold out and see what the Ryzen 4000 series offers.

 

[Zucker2k]

This is true. And Intel long ago set the stage for expensive segmentation above and beyond what one would consider a value proposition. AMD may be pricing these things higher than we'd like, but corporations are not out friends, nor charities. They'll charge what they can.

It feels surreal to see the same arguments being spat here to justify higher prices, only this time, by the AMD fans. Oh how the times have changed! At 280 watts, $1,400 entry fee ($2,000 for mobo and cpu alone), the abrupt death of x399, at best a one time upgrade path for TRX4, and topped by a paper launch, AMD has outdone Intel in raising the stakes in the HEDT segment. This is not what most were expecting, but it's okay all of a sudden because it's AMD.


Don't broad brush the board, straw man, or engage in hypocrisy fallacies.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[Markfw]

It feels surreal to see the same arguments being spat here to justify higher prices, only this time, by the AMD fans. Oh how the times have changed! At 280 watts, $1,400 entry fee ($2,000 for mobo and cpu alone), the abrupt death of x399, at best a one time upgrade path for TRX4, and topped by a paper launch, AMD has outdone Intel in raising the stakes in the HEDT segment. This is not what most were expecting, but it's okay all of a sudden because it's AMD.

First, you have no idea what a motherboard costs, no previews at all. Second, its not a paper launch, as they are going to be available Nov 25th, said so right in the site. And most of us WERE expecting this, as the 24 core 2970wx was $1200, and this one is way faster and only $200 more.

As far as the comment on AMD "fans" and saying "but its OK all of a sudden because its' AMD" is just trolling.

 

[scannall]

It feels surreal to see the same arguments being spat here to justify higher prices, only this time, by the AMD fans. Oh how the times have changed! At 280 watts, $1,400 entry fee ($2,000 for mobo and cpu alone), the abrupt death of x399, at best a one time upgrade path for TRX4, and topped by a paper launch, AMD has outdone Intel in raising the stakes in the HEDT segment. This is not what most were expecting, but it's okay all of a sudden because it's AMD.

Eh, it is what it is. There's the contingent that wants everything for nothing. Another group that wants the best, at any cost. And probably the largest group that looks at it from the nerd angle, but it is out of their price league. (That's the group I'm in btw) If you need that kind of power then it really isn't badly priced. Would it be cool to see it at $999? Sure. Still out of my price league, but that would be cool as well.

I'm most excited by how much forward momentum the CPU field is getting over the last couple of years. It was so stagnant for so long.

 

[tamz_msc]

Robert Hallock on PC Worlds' Full Nerd said that the 29xx parts will slot between the 3950x and the 3960x+. So, if you don't want to pay for the 3960, get a 2970. Presumably the changes to the Windows scheduler will help some with the memory asymmetry.
1:02:43

[That just serves to increase my confidence that the next gen TRs will see the 3960 and 3970 get cheaper and slot under.... Patience my cheap comrades :>]

I don't like it that AMD is pushing for the older Threadrippers to those who don't want to pay for the 3960X. Those chips have their own issues with NUMA and lack the FP capabilities of Zen 2 which makes them a lot less attractive. I bet that even a 3950X would easily beat a 2970X in many workloads.

 

[dnavas]

I don't like it that AMD is pushing for the older Threadrippers to those who don't want to pay for the 3960X. Those chips have their own issues with NUMA and lack the FP capabilities of Zen 2 which makes them a lot less attractive. I bet that even a 3950X would easily beat a 2970X in many workloads.

Sure, and neither do I -- I dislike all cross-version lineups, but, umm, they exist, so....
For how long does this situation last? It's possible that Intel ships a competitive product at a competitive price point. AMD counters with a 48 core and moves the 24/32 line down. Or Intel doesn't, AMD doesn't, and the move down happens when Zen3 ships. Or, something else is planned. I found it interesting that the reason for the chipset bandwidth increase is still "trust us, you'll find out why soon enough." Orly? Seems an odd choice -- DDR5 is coming in two releases, presumably, so they were *forced* to do a socket upgrade now for ... what reason? With the knowledge that this socket has a limited lifespan, that reason better materialize soonish, no? Maybe a reshuffling happens then? Who knows?!
Point is, if you don't like it, well, wait, it'll change. Not this year, but, such is life. I'm fine allowing people who find value at the current price-points pay for my cheaper parts that happen later.

 

[SPBHM]

I didn't expect it to need a new platform, or to cost this much, also I would guess they are saving an up to 64 core CPU for this platform for later...

keeping old TR around I guess makes some sense because it still fairly recent and there is a whole bunch of motherboards around for it that can't support anything newer

 

[lobz]

I expected 24C to be in that price bracket. It would not only press Intel, but draw some people originally planning to get 3900X or 3950X to get in the higher platform instead and also make many more people switch from Intel to AMD. With these high prices Intel users fine with 18C performance will just stay at Intel.

Well, you also expect a 12C processor for $260...

On the topic: finally AMD can make some money too. Intel HEDT will be in no man's land, where the only chip that would make sense is the 18C part - whic won't be that faster than the 3950X that would justify another $250 - all the while it can't even scratch the surface of what TR3000 will be able to do.

 

[lobz]

I don't like it that AMD is pushing for the older Threadrippers to those who don't want to pay for the 3960X. Those chips have their own issues with NUMA and lack the FP capabilities of Zen 2 which makes them a lot less attractive. I bet that even a 3950X would easily beat a 2970X in many workloads.

They can't make IO dies from all the wafers they must use from GF now, can they

 

[lobz]

It feels surreal to see the same arguments being spat here to justify higher prices, only this time, by the AMD fans. Oh how the times have changed! At 280 watts, $1,400 entry fee ($2,000 for mobo and cpu alone), the abrupt death of x399, at best a one time upgrade path for TRX4, and topped by a paper launch, AMD has outdone Intel in raising the stakes in the HEDT segment. This is not what most were expecting, but it's okay all of a sudden because it's AMD.


Don't broad brush the board, straw man, or engage in hypocrisy fallacies.

AT Moderator ElFenix

Ah, the moderation... says it all I wanted to say about you - I mean about all your comments you've made so far

 

[lobz]

I didn't expect it to need a new platform, or to cost this much, also I would guess they are saving an up to 64 core CPU for this platform for later...

keeping old TR around I guess makes some sense because it still fairly recent and there is a whole bunch of motherboards around for it that can't support anything newer

Well, I'd say quadroupling the chipset I/O bandwidth and doubling the total I/O bandwidth is more than worth it.