Discussion AMD Threadripper 3000 series announcement and reviews

[Kocicak]

24 cores for 1400 and 32 cores for 2000 USD?

That is expensive. It does not put much pressure on Intel. It also does not motivate people too much to change platforms from AM4 to sTRX4. I must say I am surprised.

I bet that some people at Intel are pretty relieved now.

 

[krumme]

Linus is having a lively video of the HEDT announcements. Lol. I kind of get him. Beeing taken for an idiot makes me angry too.

 

[krumme]

And here was Linus tr3 review btw

 

[amrnuke]

The 3960X and 3970X are labeled as "bloodbath" winners by Anandtech.

3970X at $2000 beats the Xeon W-3175X at $3000 in all rendering tests, all but 3 system tests (one of the losses being AVX512-heavy and the other two being y-cruncher), all encoding tests, all web/legacy except 3DPM v1. It's truly domination.

The interesting thing for me here is also the 10980XE ($979) results compared to 3950X ($749). They split the rendering tests, 3950X wins 4 of 7 system tests, 7 of 8 encoding tests, 3 of 5 web/legacy (no 3950X results for Kraken/Octane/Speedo?), and most gaming tests.

In what realm is Intel now even competitive when their HEDT platform loses to mainstream AM4 platform? Perhaps if you're in the market for a $1000 chip, but can't go 3950X because you need the lanes/peripherals. I guess that's a market they can still hold.

 

[Kocicak]

Intel HEDT platform is a like a drowning man under a boat, from below almost completelly killed by water of AMD mainstream platform and from above being crushed by heavy boat - AMD HEDT platform. AMD left Intel just a small pocket of air by not pricing the 3960X lower.

 

[krumme]

Well it was nice to have competition for 2 years I guess.
We really, really needed that 10nm++ yesterday. We are 1.5 year away from zen 5000 on 5nm.
I know Intel is a huge enormous company besides AMD with their 19b result, but their foundry and business model is killing them now. Add the chiplets approach. Its like Nokia meeting Apple. It just look like stoneage.

 

[Kocicak]

I know Intel is a huge enormous company

... with a huge enormous debt. Huge companies do collapse too, just with a larger bang.

 

[beginner99]

Linus is having a lively video of the HEDT announcements. Lol. I kind of get him. Being taken for an idiot makes me angry too.

Intel HEDT platform is a like a drowning man under a boa

I wouldn't count intel out. The have made their niche with their Intel mkl library this time. matlab simply only works with mkl and mkl simply runs dog slow on any AMD product. And with dog slow I mean easily 4x times slower than the intel core. I'm sure this applies to other software too. Reviewers should include more commonly used commercial software in their stacks to make users more aware of this issue which I recently ran into (and an undocumented workaround exists).

 

[BigDaveX]

... with a huge enormous debt. Huge companies do collapse too, just with a larger bang.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, shall we? There are plenty of us old enough to remember 2004-2006, when Intel were being read their last rites by enthusiasts on an almost daily basis until Conroe showed up.

 

[exquisitechar]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, shall we? There are plenty of us old enough to remember 2004-2006, when Intel were being read their last rites by enthusiasts on an almost daily basis until Conroe showed up.

It’s a different situation now, Intel was much better off back then.

Not that I’m saying that there will be a collapse or anything, but...it will be disastrous if 7nm isn’t on time in 2022.

 

[amrnuke]

... with a huge enormous debt. Huge companies do collapse too, just with a larger bang.

Intel has enough cash and short-term investments to cover almost all of that long-term debt. They're doing ok from a financial standpoint, I mean, their EBIT:debt interest is like 50 times what it needs to be to just be "sustainable". The problem is the future, where we haven't seen any truly novel, forward-marching game plans.

AMD each cycle has pushing out something just incredibly better. Intel's counter seems to have been really, really weak (compare the jump from, say, the 7700K -> 9900KS vs, the 1800X -> 3900X --- AMD have been the ones hammering the envelope into submission).

On Ryzen, AMD raising clocks across all Zen lines, and raising core counts year over year, along with a more mature AM4 platform, means that Zen3 could be the point where they finally take the gaming crown from Intel. If Intel can't keep the IPC x GHz crown, they then have only inertia keeping them up. WRT HEDT AMD owns it for most tasks. But there are still niches for Intel. On the server side I think corporate inertia and contracts will make that a very hard road still for AMD despite the clear advantage it has.

Long story short, if you started both companies today with equal cash and no contracts, Intel would be dead on arrival.

 

[DrMrLordX]

. . . wow, almost makes my 3900x seem pedestrian in comparison. Good job AMD, good job.

Also, the power consumption on that 3970x @ stock is surprisingly low.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, shall we? There are plenty of us old enough to remember 2004-2006, when Intel were being read their last rites by enthusiasts on an almost daily basis until Conroe showed up.

It was Intel that said 32-bit CPU's were just fine and AMD came out with Athlon 64 (64bit CPU) back in those days. Intel has been riding the gravy train for well over a decade. They say it's a marathon and not a single race. The problem. The Zen architecture has been out since 2017 and Intel has done nothing about it. In my opinion Zen2 is a slight miss from projections. I think Zen3 will be when AMD overtakes Intel in IPC.

Unlike 2005-2006 AMD has a clear pipeline through at least Zen4.

 

[StefanR5R]

servethehome:
"STH asked if this was an EPYC 7002 series derived I/O die but we were told that it is a distinct I/O die but are awaiting a follow-up."

The reviews which I looked at so far (AnandTech, Servethehome, Computerbase) speak of TR 3000's IOD being the same as Epyc 7002's, but basically half the resources in it left unused.

 

[Tup3x]

Well, I guess when Intel gets their Forevos and what ever thingies rolling, the Empire strikes back. Meanwhile they can't do anything other than just wait and try to price their products competitively for a change. What AMD did is very cost effective whit great performance. Next year is going to be sweet for AMD. After that I'd imagine that fierce competition would begin again.

 

[krumme]

The situation today is not remotely similar to 2005.

Amd can use a foundry that shares cost with the rest of the world and the mobile frontier. Its bar none the most important factor. Tsmc makes amd strong. Now amd makes tsmc even stronger.
In 2005 they were legally tied to their own foundry.
In 2005 they relied on some soi tech from IBM that obviously didn't last.
The P4 was very unbalanced because Intel top management wanted MHz.
K7 was build on a DEC teams innovative work and delivered a quantum leap. It didn't come from amd.
The new chiplet approach removes the advantage of being Intel size in one blow, and then some.
AMD management today is top notch. I guess in 4 years we will see in gfx too.

Now Intel got 10nm wrong and was late in adopting euv, but imo even if it wasn't so I dont think they would be up to it. Amd lowest end HEDT product starts 40% over the highest Intel product. It's insane.

Perhaps Intel got something radical up their sleeves. Let's hope so, because it looks to me the next 2 years will be a bloodbath. 5nm is doing well. 7nm euv is outright mature when amd enters.
Top end consumer cpu 749 usd and lowest end 3600 like what? 200 usd. And highest end hedt perhaps 4-5000 usd. Doesnt seem attractive to me. We need Intel back so those prices can be cut in half.

 

[amrnuke]

The situation today is not remotely similar to 2005.

Amd can use a foundry that shares cost with the rest of the world and the mobile frontier. Its bar none the most important factor. Tsmc makes amd strong. Now amd makes tsmc even stronger.
In 2005 they were legally tied to their own foundry.
In 2005 they relied on some soi tech from IBM that obviously didn't last.
The P4 was very unbalanced because Intel top management wanted MHz.
K7 was build on a DEC teams innovative work and delivered a quantum leap. It didn't come from amd.
The new chiplet approach removes the advantage of being Intel size in one blow, and then some.
AMD management today is top notch. I guess in 4 years we will see in gfx too.

Now Intel got 10nm wrong and was late in adopting euv, but imo even if it wasn't so I dont think they would be up to it. Amd lowest end HEDT product starts 40% over the highest Intel product. It's insane.

Perhaps Intel got something radical up their sleeves. Let's hope so, because it looks to me the next 2 years will be a bloodbath. 5nm is doing well. 7nm euv is outright mature when amd enters.
Top end consumer cpu 749 usd and lowest end 3600 like what? 200 usd. And highest end hedt perhaps 4-5000 usd. Doesnt seem attractive to me. We need Intel back so those prices can be cut in half.

I think the 3950X occupies a weird place - it's basically HEDT performance on a non-HEDT platform. I can excuse the $749 price because it beats the 10980XE in most everything.

Regarding the lowest-end AMD chip, I'd argue the 3200G, but realistically, the 3400G at $149 isn't terrible -- you're still pulling 66fps in ACO at 1440p... though the 9400F is definitely better.

That 3500 and 3500X would fill a very empty spot in the market for AMD...

 

[Timorous]

I wouldn't count intel out. The have made their niche with their Intel mkl library this time. matlab simply only works with mkl and mkl simply runs dog slow on any AMD product. And with dog slow I mean easily 4x times slower than the intel core. I'm sure this applies to other software too. Reviewers should include more commonly used commercial software in their stacks to make users more aware of this issue which I recently ran into (and an undocumented workaround exists).

What you actually mean is that the Intel compiler detects a non Intel CPU and forces it to use SSE rather than AVX code paths even if the cpu has full support.

MATLAB fix

 

[beginner99]

What you actually mean is that the Intel compiler detects a non Intel CPU and forces it to use SSE rather than AVX code paths even if the cpu has full support.

MATLAB fix

Yeah I mentioned that fix already but Intel can theoretically remove it any time or just change the number to something else and then your back to square one. If I professionally relied on matlab being fast I wouldn't bet on this fix. Also has there been extensive testing that the calculated data actually is correct? (I did a trivial sanity check with numpy mkl and it seems ok, but again for professional use, would you really just hope for the best?)

 

[Yeroon]

Top end consumer cpu 749 usd and lowest end 3600 like what? 200 usd. And highest end hedt perhaps 4-5000 usd. Doesnt seem attractive to me. We need Intel back so those prices can be cut in half.

But that $750 high end consumer is 4x what you can get from amd on the low/mid end, and the midrange for intel - so its price is justified. Its not like a high clocked quad for 4x the price (lga 775 extreme edition)

Edit: If you dont need it, sure the 3950x seems pricey. But for those who can use 16c, the price is a bargain. Simple as that. Its a consumer halo slot and pricing makes perfect sense.

Same goes for the HEDT prices - these are legit server core count processors available to overclock for those who need it. Consider the 3970x out cores intel's entire server lineup (minus the glued together one) , and its overclockable, for 1/4 of what intel pricing is. And you think AMD is the one who's pricing is out of whack?

 

[krumme]

But that $750 high end consumer is 4x what you can get from amd on the low/mid end, and the midrange for intel - so its price is justified. Its not like a high clocked quad for 4x the price (lga 775 extreme edition)

Edit: If you dont need it, sure the 3950x seems pricey. But for those who can use 16c, the price is a bargain. Simple as that. Its a consumer halo slot and pricing makes perfect sense.

Same goes for the HEDT prices - these are legit server core count processors available to overclock for those who need it. Consider the 3970x out cores intel's entire server lineup (minus the glued together one) , and its overclockable, for 1/4 of what intel pricing is. And you think AMD is the one who's pricing is out of whack?

If there was competition 2x 70mm2 7nm dies, that is easily used for 6, 12 core setups at varying frequency and efficiency, meaning near 100% binning, plus a 120mm2 on some dirt cheap 12nm process that also have near 100% bin, doesnt have to cost 750.

I am not disputing value, because it even makes Intel highest end hedt look slow and unefficient except for avx512 and memorybound situations, its just that if Intel had a competitive solution buyers could get it cheaper. Intel is simply not competitive and it hits prices. Simple as that. Have always been like that.

 

[Nereus77]

I see AMD has caught Intel with their pants down. Good for us really. Good for competition. Its crazy to think that AMD could hit back so damn hard when they were so far behind for so many years.

Intel will bounce back though, probably quite aggressively. But this time AMD will be ready.

I think we should get a decade or so of Intel and AMD trading blows. Excellent.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I see AMD has caught Intel with their pants down. Good for us really. Good for competition. Its crazy to think that AMD could hit back so damn hard when they were so far behind for so many years.

Intel will bounce back though, probably quite aggressively. But this time AMD will be ready.

I think we should get a decade or so of Intel and AMD trading blows. Excellent.

As Kawasaki once said. Let the good times roll.

 

[StinkyPinky]

No need to count Intel out. THey are still a big deal in the laptop market.

But those TR cpus are monsters. Intel have no answer to them at the moment and at this point AMD are miles ahead in this space, possibly as much as two generations. Amazing how much the tables have turned.

 

[KentState]

My god, the 3970x now beats the 9900k in games almost all the time ! (I stopped watching after a bunch of games)

We have a new gaming king ??

We definitely have a new productivity king. It blows the 2990wx out of the water.

The only places that I see an advantage is in 1080p gaming and there it's marginal. OC bother and it's probably still minimal in difference. I'd be very interested in building a 3970k system with a custom loop if it was able to match or beat the 9900k@5.1Ghz at resolutions of 1440p or better.