AMD Thuban X6 OCing database

[Markfw]

I have a big favor to ask of you guys.

And im not saying this to down the product.

Its a bug im noticing on all the X6's as of his moment and i was wondering if its only limited to the people i actually asked.
(mark has confirmed his sensor is borked as well)


SO i am asking this public.

Can you guys shut down your system for about 15min.. wait for it to cool down completely.

Then turn the system on, and take a look at your idle temps when you boot right into windows.

Im hearing your sensors are all majorly borked, and its reading lower values then it should be. (sub ambient readings on ambient cooling...)

This can be dangerous unless you know the delta offset it is, because i heard from people who live on AMD telling me the MAX u want to go is 60C and not 80C like Intel.

But can we see how many people if applicable have a borked temp sensor on there X6?

This issue would be simular to intel's borked sensor on core 3... and how it always reads way lower then the others on the earily 920's.

Here is actually what I did. First, 3 different programs said under load that it was at 41c (18c ambient). So I killed everything. I waited a few minutes, until the temp started not changing for over a minute. It settled on 21c. Then I rebooted into bios. bios said 33c. Then I shut it off for an hour, and rebooted into bios. Said 31c. Then went to windows, fired everything up and back to 41c.

So my GUESS is that the software is reading 12c off, since I can;t find a motherboard temp program (gigabyte) and I guess my load temps are closer to 53c actual. Still great I think for 4127. My 920@3700 is over 60c, with twice the cooling on it !

 

[jthunderloc]

I can tell you that on the low end its nowhere near right, Its telling me that I'm idleing at ambient or 1-2 *C below, which is simply not possible on an inexpensive air cooler (Coolermaster Hyper 21+) I cant guess how close it is to correct on the top end, but I know several sensors only get accurate at the danger end where its important.

-Wes

 

[thilanliyan]

Not sure about temps...I'm on watercooling and it idles around 20C with ~17-18C ambients. Will check BIOS later and report back.

 

[CD14]

My screen (above post) shows when it starts to throttle. 50c on hwmonitor/coretemp. CPU temp was about 72c when it dipped. Isn't max 61/62c? Does that mean overall or core?

I could put my I7 920 to 100c and it never throttled. And that was using coretemp to measure. Perhaps the temp utilities are incorrect?

Stressing at 4.2 the X6 warmed my water temp up to 38c, one degree higher than my 920. It reached it much faster too.

 

[jthunderloc]

Coretemp and HWmonitor display the actual core temps (reported, anyway), in HWmonitor TMPIN (0,1,2 depends) displays CPU Case temp, which tends to run 9*C hotter on the 2 1055ts I've played with.

I do wonder if 60c is the safe max temp, like 1.4v Link Here. Ive seen these numbers on several sites so AMD can cover their butts. My old gigabyte board set the voltage to 1.425 straight out of the box and everyone has taken theirs to 1.4v with no ill effect. Time will tell what the true safe and max limits are.

-Wes

 

[aigomorla]

I was told on the X4's 60C was the max safe point.

I am under assumption the same applies for the X6.

 

[richierich1212]

^^^

Yes.

 

[kstud]

I have a question for those running DDR2s with X6, do you feel the lack of memory bandwidth is a problem for this combo? I mean is your DDR2s enough to feed X6 at full load or you are experiencing some delays for certain app that is due to memory bandwidth shortage?

No noticeable difference between DDR2 and DDR3. I have a 940, 965C3, 1055t, 4gb DDR2, 4gb DDR3, giga 790x and 890gx. I've ran everest on both the DDR2 and DDR3 system and the differences are minimal although this could vary depending on the type of memory,ram latency, and speed.

AMD likes latency much more than the all out max bandwidth.

I'm too lazy to find the DDR2 vs DDR3 comparison or the bandwidth latency comparison but you can do a search and read the results for yourself.

As with the temperature, volts for volts, the X6 is definitely hotter than the PII Quads (965C3) I have. From my own systems a 965C3 (3.84ghz @1.40v) runs roughly the same as the x6 1055t (3.780ghz @ 1.35v).

These x6 do not run cooler than the previous quads due to having 2 additional cores outputting heat. The x6 core temps are not correct, look at the socket temp to approximate your temp.

Don't quote me but I believe the temperature in bios under CPU is the socket temp and not the actual core temp. Depending on motherboards, but usually socket temp is 3-5 C lower than core temp (however, I've also seen socket temp 3-5 C higher than core temp).

Don't know if things have change but I believe the max temp for PII Quads is 62 C...so I'm assuming the same applies to x6 (PII Quads w/ 2 more cores).

Also, regarding the issue of 1055t 95w vs 125w...if this is the same format as the PII 940 which also had 2 different versions...my memory is not quite fresh but the lower wattage 940 had a lower stock volts but overclock much better and the higher wattage 940 had higher stock volts and overclock very poorly.
My 1055t stock volts is 1.35v and I've seen some receiving 1.425v as stock...don't know if there's any truth to this (just speculations base on my experience with AMD).

 

[Dadofamunky]

This is exactly why I'm never in a hurry to upgrade. It's a major CPU advance, basically a new generation for AMD (even based on an existing architecture) and the boards need to catch up. Doubt it's the CPU.

 

[386DX]

I have a big favor to ask of you guys.

And im not saying this to down the product.

Its a bug im noticing on all the X6's as of his moment and i was wondering if its only limited to the people i actually asked.
(mark has confirmed his sensor is borked as well)


SO i am asking this public.

Can you guys shut down your system for about 15min.. wait for it to cool down completely.

Then turn the system on, and take a look at your idle temps when you boot right into windows.

Im hearing your sensors are all majorly borked, and its reading lower values then it should be. (sub ambient readings on ambient cooling...)

This can be dangerous unless you know the delta offset it is, because i heard from people who live on AMD telling me the MAX u want to go is 60C and not 80C like Intel.

But can we see how many people if applicable have a borked temp sensor on there X6?

This issue would be simular to intel's borked sensor on core 3... and how it always reads way lower then the others on the earily 920's.

People need to stop thinking the temperature rating you get from your Phenom processor is the 'actual' real temperature. You can go check the AMD technical docs at http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/31116.pdf. Specifically:

2.10.1The Tctl Temperature Scale
Tctl is the processor temperature control value, used by the platform to control cooling systems. Tctl is accessi-
ble through SB-TSI and F3xA4[CurTmp]. Tctl is a non-physical temperature on an arbitrary scale measured in
degrees. It does not represent an actual physical temperature like die or case temperature. Instead, it specifies
the processor temperature relative to the point at which the system must supply the maximum cooling for the
processor’s specified maximum case temperature and maximum thermal power dissipation.

The key things to get from this is in bold. All these hardware temperature programs are reporting is just that the temperature the hardware sensor is putting out. Also note that there isn't a sensor for each core, there's actually only one sensor and its not even on the core itself but on the northbridge of the die. For Phenom CPU's its the Tctl temperature and not the "real" temperature. This is why you see Phenom people raving how low there "temperatures" are or that there idle temp is lower then ambient room temperature because its not. Until AMD releases information on how Tctl temperature relates to the real temperature for there CPUs nobody will really know the actually temperatures. The only thing we know is that if you hardware monitor gives you a reading of 52C on your X6 then its 10C from reaching its thermal limit and shutting down.

One last thing. The temperature readings for Intel Core and i CPU's are fairly accurate (at higher temps, not so much at low because the sensor can be off 5-10C at low temps). This is because Intel calculates there temperature differently and has disclosed all TJMax (max temp) value for there CPU's (Core max temp were disclosed at a previous IDF and max temp for i CPU's are stored in a register that can be read directly). So Intel CPU's will display the "real" core temperatures when you use your HW monitoring programs (as long as the program uses proper TJMax offsets for your CPU).

**Note some temperature monitoring program may offset there readings with the assumption that all CPU shuts down at 80C (or another arbitrary value)

 

[jvroig]

So my GUESS is that the software is reading 12c off, since I can;t find a motherboard temp program (gigabyte)

Gigabyte has EasyTune, and it has a tab that monitors the System and CPU temps (BIOS readings). EasyTune should have come with your motherboard drivers, but I'm sure it is also downloadable from their website.

 

[Markfw]

Gigabyte has EasyTune, and it has a tab that monitors the System and CPU temps (BIOS readings). EasyTune should have come with your motherboard drivers, but I'm sure it is also downloadable from their website.

I had lost the CD and couldn't findit on their website, but I have since found it. I just installed it. It says its a Semperon Spica CPU, and is running 32c, even though coretemp and hardware monitor say 40c.

 

[jvroig]

To me, that suggests that there probably must really be BIOS problems to be threshed out regarding CPU temp monitoring, because in my experience with EasyTune, it is calibrated exactly with the BIOS readings, confirmed by rebooting and entering bios, and also verified by lm_sensors in Linux (which never worked for both MSI boards I have, but was perfect with the Gigabyte board).

EDIT:

It says its a Semperon Spica CPU

Completely glossed over this bit of info. I have no idea what to say.

 

[richierich1212]

lol sempron X6, awesome.

 

[thilanliyan]

My BIOS reports a CPU temp of 16C lol. Although the comp is in a basement in Edmonton, Canada and it feels a bit cold and I'm watercooling...so maybe it is correct?

In Windows at idle it's reading 15C and that might be lower than in BIOS because I have CnQ and C1E enabled, so it's running at 1088MHz @ 1.2v in Windows but at 3.8GHz @ 1.4v in BIOS.

 

[manimal]

Ya temp reading on my gigabyte board are all over. HWmon tells me im loading now at 60-62 and cpuz tells me volts are at 1.504 at load as well but easytune and everything else tell me something different. LLC is off but seems to still be there. I have c1e and CnQ disabled but they are still there. Im going to hold off pushing this thing any more till the next bios update. I did push my NB to 2800 in the meantime.

 

[Markfw]

To me, that suggests that there probably must really be BIOS problems to be threshed out regarding CPU temp monitoring, because in my experience with EasyTune, it is calibrated exactly with the BIOS readings, confirmed by rebooting and entering bios, and also verified by lm_sensors in Linux (which never worked for both MSI boards I have, but was perfect with the Gigabyte board).

EDIT:

Completely glossed over this bit of info. I have no idea what to say.

As manimal said, its the latest bios, says it supports this cpu, and cpuz is reporting correctly.

 

[KilJim]

LLC? For AMD? Don't see that option for MY motherboard in BIOS.

Yupp for AMD. I'm using this board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-618-_-Product

Anyone knows about this LLC?
My first time dealing with it, read that disabling it is best but the only options are Auto and 0% upwards
0% made the vcore fluctuate a lot on load

 

[jchu14]

Yupp for AMD. I'm using this board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-618-_-Product

Anyone knows about this LLC?
My first time dealing with it, read that disabling it is best but the only options are Auto and 0% upwards
0% made the vcore fluctuate a lot on load

That's a good question and one that's discussed somewhat in depth in this thread. I have mine set to none because of the supposedly larger transient spikes. It would definately help out my overclock though.

 

[nyker96]

No noticeable difference between DDR2 and DDR3. I have a 940, 965C3, 1055t, 4gb DDR2, 4gb DDR3, giga 790x and 890gx. I've ran everest on both the DDR2 and DDR3 system and the differences are minimal although this could vary depending on the type of memory,ram latency, and speed.

AMD likes latency much more than the all out max bandwidth.

I'm too lazy to find the DDR2 vs DDR3 comparison or the bandwidth latency comparison but you can do a search and read the results for yourself.

this is probably true about amd cpu not sensitive to bandwidth limitations vs latency, but the reason I'm asking is that afterall it's a 6core, there's always a possibility in some apps the limited memory bandwith could starve the processors. granted there are few app even utilize more than 3-4 cores at the moment. still a concern, but I couldn't find any ddr2 vs 3 comparison for x6 so far off the net.

 

[Jason kiDD]

Im new but ill post up...

* CPU Model: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T
* CPU Stepping: *changing cooler soon*
* CPU Frequency: 4000 MHz
* CPU vCore: 1.45V
* CPU Multiplier: 20.5x
* CPU Turbo: Disabled
* CPU NB Speed: 200x12=2400 MHz
* HT Bus Speed: 200x10=2000 MHz
* HT Link Speed: 200 MHz
* RAM Brand and Model: GSkill DDR2-1066
* RAM Speed: DDR2-1066
* RAM Timings: 5-5-5-15-2T
* RAM Configuration: 4x2gb = 8gb Total
* RAM vDIMM: 2.1V
* Motherboard: AOD790GX/129m
* Chipset/Socket: 790GX + SB750, AM2+
* Cooling: Tuniq Tower 120 - "Corsair H50 soon"
* Temps: 22C Idle / 64C Load (Hyper Pi 32m)
* Operating System: Windows 7
* 32/64-Bit: 64
* Stable/Suicide/Untested: Stable

*Case open only CPU * Power Fans running*

http://img693.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=4000mhz533mhz.jpg
*Case on additional 120mm Fan blowing out rear*

 

[aigomorla]

Mark... see AMD Overdrive does give core temps or the guy above me couldnt post it.



Guys use AMD Overdrive over coretemp and realtemp.
A lot of my friends tell me thats the most accurate.

 

[manimal]

Mark... see AMD Overdrive does give core temps or the guy above me couldnt post it.



Guys use AMD Overdrive over coretemp and realtemp.
A lot of my friends tell me thats the most accurate.

HW Mon seems the most accurate to me. AOD was a 10 degrees higher than HW mon but I have been known to be crazy. Gigabyte boards seem to be having the most trouble.. Will check it out again when I get home.

 

[Spook]

* CPU Model: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T
* CPU Stepping: CCBBE CB 1013 CPCW
* CPU Frequency: 4001MHz
* CPU vCore: 1.44v
* CPU Multiplier: 20
* CPU Turbo: Disabled
* CPU NB Speed: Default
* HT Ref Speed: Default
* RAM Speed: Default 1333Mhz
* RAM Timings: 9-9-9-24
* RAM Configuration: 2 x 2GB
* RAM vDIMM: 1.675c
* Motherboard: Asus M4A89GTD Pro/Usb3
* Chipset/Socket: 890GX
* Cooling: Zalman 10x Performa
* Temps: CPU : 34c Idle / 64c LinX Core : 23c Idle / 55c LinX
* Operating System: Windows 7
* 32/64-Bit: 64
* Stable/Suicide/Untested: 50pass LinX, and 24hr Prime

Sorry to change my results, but ran into some issues, did some research, and found LinX which I had never used before. Long story short, LinX was not stable
at 1.375v, that I had posted earlier, and I wasn't using HWMonitor either. I find it interesting the difference between the CPU temp, and the Core temps, almost
10c difference. Im running LinX on my i7-860 system too, and there is a 1c difference between the CPU and Core temps.

At this level the system is a little hotter, but more stable. Seems to be falling in line with some of the other OC's here.

Spook

 

[Schmide]

I've only had it up a couple days and under cheap water for a day

* CPU Model: AMD Phenom II X6 1055T
* CPU Stepping: CCBBE CB 1013 CPMW
* CPU Frequency: 4060MHz
* CPU vCore: 1.49v (reading) bios reports wrong setting +0.15
* CPU Multiplier: 14
* CPU Turbo: Disabled
* CPU NB Speed: 290x7 = 2030mhz
* HT Ref Speed: 290x7 = 2030mhz
* RAM Speed: 773.4Mhz (1546Mhz)
* RAM Timings: 7-7-7-16 1T
* RAM Configuration: 2 x 2GB ddr3 OCZ reaper
* RAM vDIMM: 1.65v
* Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H ver 1.0 (bios F7c)
* Chipset/Socket: 890GX
* Cooling: Asetek WaterChill DD Black Ice II 120.2 and DD Black Ice Extreme 120.1
* Temps: CPU : OCCT readings 20c idle / 42c load (max)
* Operating System: Windows 7
* 32/64-Bit: 64
* Stable/Suicide/Untested: 1hr OCCT (needs more testing)

Will report later.

4/24 Update took voltage down temps went up. It is a bit warmer today.