AMD to launch 20nm and a brand new architecture for GPUs this year

[blastingcap]

PC gaming isnt in decline.

Let me clarify: I was not talking about software.

I was referring to hardware sales by Intel, NVDA, AMD. And the numbers aren't good: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...opularity-keeps-climbing-hardware-sales-down/

AMD had to repeatedly slash their asking price for video cards last year, and even add game bundles on top of that to sweeten the deal. That couldn't have been good for margins. There's still plenty of money to be made in PC gaming and consoles, but they aren't exactly growth industries, and console parts have relatively low margins compared to, say, server hardware, pro graphics, etc.

 

[Fx1]

Let me clarify: I was not talking about software.

I was referring to hardware sales by Intel, NVDA, AMD. And the numbers aren't good: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...opularity-keeps-climbing-hardware-sales-down/

AMD had to repeatedly slash their asking price for video cards last year, and even add game bundles on top of that to sweeten the deal. That couldn't have been good for margins. There's still plenty of money to be made in PC gaming and consoles, but they aren't exactly growth industries, and console parts have relatively low margins compared to, say, server hardware, pro graphics, etc.

All i see is PC sales.

Not Gaming PC sales or gaming hardware.

AMD give bundles because its their focus on gaming and to offset poor CPU sales.

Haswell drops this year also then 20nm GPU's things will be better

 

[notty22]

BioShock, Tomb Raider can't save March US sales from 10% decline

Update: BioShock Infinite sold 878,000 units on console during the month
The NPD Group has released its retail sales report for the month of March, and while some analysts had predicted growth, it was not to be. Total industry sales fell 10 percent year-on-year to $992.5 million, as hardware sales fell 32 percent to $221.6 million, but total software sales (including PC games) inched up two percent to $602.4 million.
That two percent climb actually represents "the first month since November 2011 where retail spending on entertainment software experienced positive growth,” NPD analyst Liam Callahan noted.

PC sales declined at their fastest rate ever. Should we be worried?

Should PC gamers be worried?

Things

are not

that

rosy.

 

[Fx1]

BioShock, Tomb Raider can't save March US sales from 10% decline








PC sales declined at their fastest rate ever. Should we be worried?



Things

are not

that

rosy.

Firstly its console sales this is the end of the current cycle.

Also PC sales are PC SALES! Not gaming PC's. Laptops mostly and crappy low specced desktops from people like Dell.

Gaming is growing in the PC space. Its like comparing Rolex to Casio and saying watches are doomed because Casio sales are down

 

[cmdrdredd]

Nvidia lunatics should be just as desperate for AMD's 20nm cards to bring nvidia's pricing down out of the stratosphere.

Why? Because a single GPU card that performs similarly(note I did NOT say same) to a dual GPU card is priced in the region of similar performing cards?

Titan is priced high for performance reasons and limited availability. Now if you claim the 680/670 is priced too high that is relative to whether you feel a $380 card is worth its price because in that price point the difference between AMD and Nvidia is not really that much when comparing single GPU.

 

[blastingcap]

All i see is PC sales.

Not Gaming PC sales or gaming hardware.

AMD give bundles because its their focus on gaming and to offset poor CPU sales.

Haswell drops this year also then 20nm GPU's things will be better

If we take discrete GPUs as a proxy for gaming GPUs, then note that AMD discrete GPU sales were down. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/GPU-fourth-quarter-discrete-embedded-graphics-market,21194.html and http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases/details/amd-intel-nvidia-q4-graphics-gpu-shipments/ (note that Nvidia's discrete GPU sales were hurting as well, not just AMD)

AMD is not alone, though, as a lot of makers of desktop PC parts have been hurting, and Windows 8 was such a disaster that it was unable to reverse the trend. Intel's Haswell isn't going to change things much, as it's on the hardware side and intended more for efficiency and graphics than raw CPU power.

 

[MrK6]

BioShock, Tomb Raider can't save March US sales from 10% decline
http://www.pcgamesn.com/pc-sales-de...te-ever-thanks-windows-8-should-we-be-worried
PC sales declined at their fastest rate ever. Should we be worried?
Things

are not

that

rosy.

What a bunch of nonsense. Chicken Littles have been running around screaming for a decade about the end of PC gaming and erroneously quoting declining PC game sales figure as a foundation for their neuroses. However, most reports do not consider digital sales, which is where the industry is moving. I see no where in that link that they did include digital sales when considering their Doomsday prophecy.

That said, the sooner any company gets a 20nm part out the door, the sooner I consider upgrading. The newest 28nm flagship parts are a joke and heavily overpriced.

 

[notty22]

I get it. Another flawed survey. First it's Steam HARDWARE numbers that are incorrect(claimed without proof). Steam is not counting hardware correctly. Now, privately funded market information and advisory services, are incapable of figuring out the market of their investigation.

NPD: 72 percent of US gamers play online

May 2, 2013 6:38AM PDT


The PC ranks as the top platform for online gaming, with 68 percent of US gamers saying they play online through their computers. This figure is down 4 percent year-over-year. Online gaming through mobile devices, however, is growing. The study found mobile devices saw a 12 percent increase in online gaming year-over-year.
In terms of buying behavior, it would seem logical that online gamers would prefer digital content over physical content, but this was not the case, according to the report. Asked if players would prefer purchasing a game in physical format or digital format, where pricing and availability were consistent, 62 percent chose the physical format.
"While many gamers prefer games in the physical format, the increased availability of digital content paired with a greater amount of connected devices has driven an increase in the number of consumers going online to access the content they want," Callahan said.

It seems obvious that digital sales are being noted. Qualified. Figured in to sales and losses, choose a definition, it's unbelievable to cite they are not being factored.

 

[blastingcap]

We were talking about hardware in this thread, not software. Sorry if my poor phrasing started this branch off into software-land. But I was talking hardware. And Jon Peddie Research links show that discrete GPU sales aren't doing too hot lately.

I don't want to turn this into another financial pissing contest, though, so I regret replying to the guy who posted the "AMD wants to be a gaming company" post.

 

[MrK6]

I get it. Another flawed survey. First it's Steam HARDWARE numbers that are incorrect(claimed without proof). Steam is not counting hardware correctly. Now, privately funded market information and advisory services, are incapable of figuring out the market of their investigation.

It seems obvious that digital sales are being noted. Qualified. Figured in to sales and losses, choose a definition, it's unbelievable to cite they are not being factored.

But again, it wasn't stated. You're assuming. If you're trying to prove a point you have to get down the basics of proper research first.

We were talking about hardware in this thread, not software. Sorry if my poor phrasing started this branch off into software-land. But I was talking hardware. And Jon Peddie Research links show that discrete GPU sales aren't doing too hot lately.

I don't want to turn this into another financial pissing contest, though, so I regret replying to the guy who posted the "AMD wants to be a gaming company" post which led us down this path.

I'd conjecture that graphics cards sales are down because there's nothing driving them up. Performance has stagnated for the last ~18 months, and games aren't really pushing for better hardware either. I don't think Crysis 3 had the same effect as the original, and I can't think of many other demanding titles out out recently that would contribute (mostly console ports really). Metro and Witcher 3 might change things up.

 

[blastingcap]

But again, it wasn't stated. You're assuming. If you're trying to prove a point you have to get down the basics of proper research first.

I'd conjecture that graphics cards sales are down because there's nothing driving them up. Performance has stagnated for the last ~18 months, and games aren't really pushing for better hardware either. I don't think Crysis 3 had the same effect as the original, and I can't think of many other demanding titles out out recently that would contribute (mostly console ports really). Metro and Witcher 3 might change things up.

Not to state the obvious but the global economic downturn has something to do with it as well. Maybe that is part of the reason why F2P/freemium/cheapo mobile gaming have done well, though those games were arguably already on the upswing prior to the downturn. You don't need expensive video cards to run those kinds of games. Nor do you need to pay $20-60 for most of them, unlike what you need to pay for many console game titles, not to mention the cost of the consoles themselves.

The next-gen consoles can't get here fast enough to finally push up the lowest common denominator (consoles) to the point where many PC gamers may actually want to upgrade.

 

[notty22]

We were talking about hardware in this thread, not software. Sorry if my poor phrasing started this branch off into software-land. But I was talking hardware. And Jon Peddie Research links show that discrete GPU sales aren't doing too hot lately.

I don't want to turn this into another financial pissing contest, though, so I regret replying to the guy who posted the "AMD wants to be a gaming company" post.

The gaming bundles have to be a factor in to AMD's current pricing/financial future. They are definitely invested and offering a incentive for their hardware, via software.

 

[cmdrdredd]

But again, it wasn't stated. You're assuming. If you're trying to prove a point you have to get down the basics of proper research first.

I'd conjecture that graphics cards sales are down because there's nothing driving them up. Performance has stagnated for the last ~18 months, and games aren't really pushing for better hardware either. I don't think Crysis 3 had the same effect as the original, and I can't think of many other demanding titles out out recently that would contribute (mostly console ports really). Metro and Witcher 3 might change things up.

I know a lot of people who suddenly needed new systems for Battlefield 3. Battlefield 4 probably won't do the same thing though.

 

[BFG10K]

It seems obvious that digital sales are being noted.

Really? That's rather interesting considering Valve Software doesn't release Steam sales figures, and they're a huge chunk of the digital market.

 

[notty22]

Really? That's rather interesting considering Valve Software doesn't release Steam sales figures, and they're a huge chunk of the digital market.

OK? Game developers still have to report revenue. Digital sales is not some secret, no-paper trail business.
Adobe just announced , a digital strategy. Do you think, no one will be able to evaluate their business success or failure?

Digital game sales growing 33%

It's not that often you get solid numbers on sales for digital games, so the crowded talk on digital game sales was a welcome event. Digital game and downloadable content sales are growing at a rate of 33 percent year over year in the US and EU. Spending on games in China, which is almost all digital, is projected to grow over 10 percent annually for the next three years. And Asia is projected to dominate online and mobile games globally by 2016, according to the speakers.

 

[Acanthus]

The new consoles will cause a revival in PC gaming due to ported games not looking like they are from 2005 anymore.

The increased demands will also force a lot of people who have been holding out to finally upgrade as well.

 

[lagokc]

The new consoles will cause a revival in PC gaming due to ported games not looking like they are from 2005 anymore.

The increased demands will also force a lot of people who have been holding out to finally upgrade as well.

That might be a factor. When games started requiring DX9 class GPUs that likely pushed more people to upgrade their GPUs. Now that pretty much all DX11 games will happily run in DX9 mode it's possible to run them on some pretty old GPUs. Once developers no longer make ports for 5 year old consoles and decide to stop including DX9/10 mode as an option it may spur a series of GPU upgrades.

 

[saad_ahmed]

Yes there are tones of info

 

[Genx87]

I thought they were moving GPU production back to GloFo to avoid paying GloFo for not using them?

 

[Ajay]

I thought they were moving GPU production back to GloFo to avoid paying GloFo for not using them?

It is inevitable (unless AMD can increase wafer starts @ GF by other means). When this will happen; I don't know.

 

[lagokc]

It is inevitable (unless AMD can increase wafer starts @ GF by other means). When this will happen; I don't know.

Couldn't GF just decide that building new fabs is getting too expensive and keep offering AMD the "make chips on our outdated process or pay the fine" deal? Stop making chips and walk off with AMD's money basically.

It doesn't seem like the exclusivity contract was tied to any sort of performance goals at GF.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Couldn't GF just decide that building new fabs is getting too expensive and keep offering AMD the "make chips on our outdated process or pay the fine" deal? Stop making chips and walk off with AMD's money basically.

It doesn't seem like the exclusivity contract was tied to any sort of performance goals at GF.

Quite possible.

On the subject I think we should be happy if we even see 20nm GPUs in 2014.

Also Qualcomm and Apple will pay more than AMD and nVidia will be willing to pay for 20nm wafers until supply is great enough.

 

[Ajay]

Couldn't GF just decide that building new fabs is getting too expensive and keep offering AMD the "make chips on our outdated process or pay the fine" deal? Stop making chips and walk off with AMD's money basically.

It doesn't seem like the exclusivity contract was tied to any sort of performance goals at GF.

Look at the profit margins of AMD graphics. Unless some CPU/APU starts selling well enough to get AMD wafer starts above the minimum required by the WSA, AMD won't have enough profits to fund AMD GPUs @ TSMC. AMD will have to move production to GFL - effectively killing off that segment in a generation.

AMD either turns around RSN, or they'll end up in bankruptcy court. I just don't see any other way, unless Mubadala realizes that the WSA is killing their primary customer and forces GFL to offer better terms. Or, somehow, GFL starts executing much much better in getting new nodes into production. I think it's very sad that prior AMD management teams left AMD in this predicament, but that's where they are.