AMD unable to deliver X2 ... Rumors of trouble abounds

[rgreen83]

Dothan is from now on banned from logging in after too much starbucks.

 

[MDme]

I hate to quote THG news, but...

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050610_084216.html

PROOF that X2's are shipping. whereas Pentium D's are nowhere to be found. the EE is available but who in their right mind would buy a $1000 intel EE when you can beat it in most benchmarks with the 4200+ X2 at nearly half the cost. or crush it nearly accross the board with the just as pricey 4800+

and yes, why are there freaking intel trolls here!!!! i am open to real news even if they are pro-intel. but these lies are pathetic.

 

[Sentential]

MDme you are incorrect about the availability of Pentium D. They have been available at ZZF for a number of weeks now. As proof:

Here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80830

Here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80831

Here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80832

And Finally the EE Here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80833

You are being unfair. In fact, both are shipping. Intel *did* get ahead to the retail market (non-OEM) before AMD. However AMD beat Intel to the OEM market. In addition AMD still isnt *really* available in mass quantities in the retail market or OEM today. They have only just begun to go retail in Japan in very small quantities. Most ETAs here in the states are mid July.

There are trolls from both camps at anandtech and any place you go. This includes AMD and Intel alike. The only reason you see Intel ones is because you are an AMD troll yourself.
________________________

Still tho despite the hostility, I think there is a great truth to this. Their die-size is aproximately the same as a CG clawhammer, yet they are only clocking about the same as it on 90nm? Thats definatly not a good sign.

FX55 = .13
4600+ = .09
= Win

FX55 = SSDOI
4600+ = DSL
= Win

FX55 = 193mm2
4600+ = 199mm2
= Loss

By all accounts we should have seen 3ghz by now across the board on the smaller cores. Especially Winchester and Diego, still after many months we have yet to see such. AMD *is* without a doubt having yeild issues.

More proof here:

http://epscontest2.home.comcast.net/presentations/05q2_amd_ad/Slide131.jpg

Now, most everyone here will agree that the *average* overclock of a newcastle is about 2.5ghz. In addition I think its fair to say that the highest 90nm cores reported on air cooling is about 3ghz. Lets see what happens when we use paint on this picture:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/Sentential/1aprox.jpg

If 2 blocks are 500mhz. This becomes very bad....Its not the top end, but the spread. On 90nm there are cores that cannot even run at 2.8ghz. This is a sign of a serious yeild issue.

Compare the blocks that each die-process occupies. For 130nm its aprox 4. For 90nm its 7. Thats almost 2X as poor a yeild rate as the previous process.

While they are making almost 2X the chips, thats still not a good sign at all. Especially for X2s since because of the die size, they cant make very many.

I know this will come across as being biased, but I honestally am not. I do not know what Intel's figures are so all I can do is compare AMD's

 

[Whateva]

Nothing beats Pentiums speed, Everything beats it's performance.....lol

Anyways You Intel guys can argue all day about speed and availability of chips and so forth but the bottom line is that the Prescott core is crap unless it's running at 4 ghz. plus.
The Pentium D is nothing but 2 Prescotts glued together running at a slower speed which = crap. Now to be fair The Dothan core Pentium M is an aweseome processor. In fact I would love to have one. Intel made a mistake with Prescott, and until they have a mainstream desktop processor thats not based on the Prescott core I'll stick with AMD.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Whateva
Nothing beats Pentiums speed, Everything beats it's performance.....lol

Anyways You Intel guys can argue all day about speed and availability of chips and so forth but the bottom line is that the Prescott core is crap unless it's running at 4 ghz. plus.
The Pentium D is nothing but 2 Prescotts glued together running at a slower speed which = crap. Now to be fair The Dothan core Pentium M is an aweseome processor. In fact I would love to have one. Intel made a mistake with Prescott, and until they have a mainstream desktop processor thats not based on the Prescott core I'll stick with AMD.

:thumbsup:

 

[sonoran]

Originally posted by: Sentential
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/Sentential/1aprox.jpg

If 2 blocks are 500mhz. This becomes very bad....Its not the top end, but the spread. On 90nm there are cores that cannot even run at 2.8ghz. This is a sign of a serious yeild issue.

Sentential, I had noticed that slide as well, but where did the blue lines for clock speed come from? As far as I'm aware they're not there on the original. If you made them up, I'm curious as to what your reasoning was?

 

[Duvie]

Its not there are placed on there with like Paintshop....I will try to find the original.....

further look the chart and whee they drew lines would make no sense..Also figure where each line began speed wise and you can figure approx what the lines may be...BUt without the orig. it would be ASSuming which Sentential is good at....He alswys spreads INFOP (I use lightly) like this here...

 

[MDme]

Sentential....I hope you do not label people as trolls BLINDLY just because some people make mistakes. I am NOT an AMD troll.

If I made a mistake on the availability of the Pentium D then i accept my mistake. BUT if you read the rest of the post, you certainly can't argue that they are all FACTS.

1) Alienware is shipping X2's

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050610_084216.html

2) The cheapest X2 at ~ $500+ can beat the EE in a majority of benchmarks (too many links to post)

http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~smanning/pr.xls (here is zebo's link though)

3) Moving up to the X2 4800+ then for the same price you can beat the EE in nearly all the tests

4) and I don't have to post the links regarding the availability of the X2's in other parts of the world coz the links have been posted already.

BOTTOM LINE: it doesn't really matter if the P-D's and EE's are available. cause the X2 beats them anyway which way you look at it.

 

[pnb263]

Originally posted by: RichUK
silly troll

Tricks are for kids!!!

 

[suklee]

Originally posted by: pnb263

Originally posted by: RichUK
silly troll

Tricks are for kids!!!

lol i was gonna post that, but you beat me to it.

we've wasted too much bandwidth/time on this troll's thread already

 

[PetNorth]

..

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Its not there are placed on there with like Paintshop....I will try to find the original.....

further look the chart and whee they drew lines would make no sense..Also figure where each line began speed wise and you can figure approx what the lines may be...BUt without the orig. it would be ASSuming which Sentential is good at....He alswys spreads INFOP (I use lightly) like this here...

There's another slide from that presentation. It shows AMD reaching mature yields very quickly with 90nm.
Also, WHY would AMD release higher speed processors? Serious question, why release higher speeds?
Higher speeds obviously mean lower yields on the higher speed chips, and since there's no market pressure to release higher speed chips, why should they lower their yields?
Whatever happens, 2.8GHz chips are going to be harder to produce than 2.6GHz or 2.4GHz chips, and since Intel can't compete at current speeds, why would AMD do that to themselves?

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Dothan
It is true !!!

AMD can not deliver the hallowed X2 !!!

Chips were to be available 2 weeks ago but still none are shipping !!!

This means AMD have a "paper launch" and meanwhile Intel Pentium D and Pentium Extreme Edition 840 chips ARE SHIPPING AND AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW !!!

The AMD fanatics who will undoubtedly chastise me, I say, fine - where are the X2 chips then?

Rumors are abound of manufacturing difficulties in Dresden !!! It appear that yields are EXTREMELY low on X2 chip (after all dual cores on 90nm is troublesome at best) and with AMD trying to prepare to meet Intel on 65nm (which Intel already running) this spell lots of troubles ahead for AMD.

Pure moron. What's with all these guys popping out of the woodwork now? The X2 must have some blue guys nervous...

 

[Mik3y]

Originally posted by: Dothan
It is true !!!

AMD can not deliver the hallowed X2 !!!

Chips were to be available 2 weeks ago but still none are shipping !!!

This means AMD have a "paper launch" and meanwhile Intel Pentium D and Pentium Extreme Edition 840 chips ARE SHIPPING AND AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW !!!

The AMD fanatics who will undoubtedly chastise me, I say, fine - where are the X2 chips then?

Rumors are abound of manufacturing difficulties in Dresden !!! It appear that yields are EXTREMELY low on X2 chip (after all dual cores on 90nm is troublesome at best) and with AMD trying to prepare to meet Intel on 65nm (which Intel already running) this spell lots of troubles ahead for AMD.

you're a stupid fvck, you know that? next time, try posting without a cock up your ass. and... you're making fun of amd for their prices? um, the intel's cost more if you include the cost of the cpu and the mobo. amd's dualcores are supported by existing sockets, so omgwtbbqsauce. btw, last i remember, intel got raped on benchies. oh's teh noes! you, my man, are just a stupid dumbfvck. admit it, your parents think so too.

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: Sentential

Still tho despite the hostility, I think there is a great truth to this. Their die-size is aproximately the same as a CG clawhammer, yet they are only clocking about the same as it on 90nm? Thats definatly not a good sign.

FX55 = .13
4600+ = .09
= Win

FX55 = SSDOI
4600+ = DSL
= Win

FX55 = 193mm2
4600+ = 199mm2
= Loss

By all accounts we should have seen 3ghz by now across the board on the smaller cores. Especially Winchester and Diego, still after many months we have yet to see such. AMD *is* without a doubt having yeild issues.

More proof here:

http://epscontest2.home.comcast.net/presentations/05q2_amd_ad/Slide131.jpg

Now, most everyone here will agree that the *average* overclock of a newcastle is about 2.5ghz. In addition I think its fair to say that the highest 90nm cores reported on air cooling is about 3ghz. Lets see what happens when we use paint on this picture:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/Sentential/1aprox.jpg

If 2 blocks are 500mhz. This becomes very bad....Its not the top end, but the spread. On 90nm there are cores that cannot even run at 2.8ghz. This is a sign of a serious yeild issue.

Compare the blocks that each die-process occupies. For 130nm its aprox 4. For 90nm its 7. Thats almost 2X as poor a yeild rate as the previous process.

While they are making almost 2X the chips, thats still not a good sign at all. Especially for X2s since because of the die size, they cant make very many.

I know this will come across as being biased, but I honestally am not. I do not know what Intel's figures are so all I can do is compare AMD's

Regrading the "clocking high" they hit 2.7/2.8 Ghz and to destroy the pentium D they only need 2.4Ghz. Its not like it tops at @ 2.4 Ghz and yeilds are poor.

 

[apairoflegsanyone]

Originally posted by: Mik3y

Originally posted by: Dothan
It is true !!!

AMD can not deliver the hallowed X2 !!!

Chips were to be available 2 weeks ago but still none are shipping !!!

This means AMD have a "paper launch" and meanwhile Intel Pentium D and Pentium Extreme Edition 840 chips ARE SHIPPING AND AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW !!!

The AMD fanatics who will undoubtedly chastise me, I say, fine - where are the X2 chips then?

Rumors are abound of manufacturing difficulties in Dresden !!! It appear that yields are EXTREMELY low on X2 chip (after all dual cores on 90nm is troublesome at best) and with AMD trying to prepare to meet Intel on 65nm (which Intel already running) this spell lots of troubles ahead for AMD.

you're a stupid fvck, you know that? next time, try posting without a cock up your ass. and... you're making fun of amd for their prices? um, the intel's cost more if you include the cost of the cpu and the mobo. amd's dualcores are supported by existing sockets, so omgwtbbqsauce. btw, last i remember, intel got raped on benchies. oh's teh noes! you, my man, are just a stupid dumbfvck. admit it, your parents think so too.

Holy crap, calm down will you?! That was unnecessary and downright stupid for you to explode like that.

But anyways,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...alue=0&Submit=Property&SubCategory=343

Above the original price but it shows that it is available. I don't know why people want to get the pentium d. Waiting should be my new goal for the next generation.

 

[clarkey01]

Sentential they dont need 3Ghz.

@ 2.6 on the single cores (soon to be 2.8 with the FX 57) and 2.4 Ghz on the dual's its not like there getting there arse handed to them. It makes scence to wait for Intel to catch up slighlty which allows for AMD to tweak, increase yeilds and think about thier next move. 3Ghz is on the roadmap for Q1 2006. Yes they are taking thier time but there doing the right thing.

3 Ghz is just a number. Not a performance crown (cept in this case, but they already have it @ 2.4/2.6 Ghz)

Ball is in Intels court.

 

[Dothan]

lol I see the AMD fanatics have arrived !!! ( what a surprise )

Give up your scam !!! The X2 chips might be available on a dark street corner in Tokyo but NO ONE and I mean NO ONE has them SHIPPING NOW here in the US. And quit posting links to Alienware, they have an ETA of June 23 but who knows if that could be moved back? Many places now have ETA mid JULY and that may even be missed !!!

As for Pentium D not being available, give me a break !!! I can purchase P-D or EE 840 almost ANYWHERE because Intel has been shipping them (RETAIL BOX, TOO) for a couple weeks already. Intel beat AMD to the punch (again) so quit trying to cover it up you filthy troll zealots !!!

 

[IamTHEsnake]

Originally posted by: clarkey01


FeliDeKat Lives..

LOL!!!! His unspeakable trolling has made him a legend.

What a guy, I'm gonna go search up some of his posts right now and have a laugh.

 

[apairoflegsanyone]

Originally posted by: Dothan
lol I see the AMD fanatics have arrived !!! ( what a surprise )

Give up your scam !!! The X2 chips might be available on a dark street corner in Tokyo but NO ONE and I mean NO ONE has them SHIPPING NOW here in the US. And quit posting links to Alienware, they have an ETA of June 23 but who knows if that could be moved back? Many places now have ETA mid JULY and that may even be missed !!!

As for Pentium D not being available, give me a break !!! I can purchase P-D or EE 840 almost ANYWHERE because Intel has been shipping them (RETAIL BOX, TOO) for a couple weeks already. Intel beat AMD to the punch (again) so quit trying to cover it up you filthy troll zealots !!!

You're not helping.

 

[sandorski]

What part of "widespread availability in Q4" do you not understand? Let me splain it for the Slow: X2 will be available through many OEM/Systems manufacturers almost immediately. However, do not expect to buy an individual Retail X2 for some time, in this case Q4. Pretty simple concept.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Dothan
lol I see the AMD fanatics have arrived !!! ( what a surprise )

Give up your scam !!! The X2 chips might be available on a dark street corner in Tokyo but NO ONE and I mean NO ONE has them SHIPPING NOW here in the US. And quit posting links to Alienware, they have an ETA of June 23 but who knows if that could be moved back? Many places now have ETA mid JULY and that may even be missed !!!

As for Pentium D not being available, give me a break !!! I can purchase P-D or EE 840 almost ANYWHERE because Intel has been shipping them (RETAIL BOX, TOO) for a couple weeks already. Intel beat AMD to the punch (again) so quit trying to cover it up you filthy troll zealots !!!

Right, I totally agree.

AMD loses because they can't push a product that was thrown together at the last minute to beat their competetor out the door.

I guess if you want to buy a slower, louder, hotter processor you don't have to wait.

I guess I'll be waiting.

 

[n7]

This guy is a flaming moron :laugh:

Originally, AMD didn't plan to have the X2s out till fall, so if they arrive by this summer, i think that's great.

Being "first" isn't necessarily the best; those who are intelligent will wait to by the X2s because they know what quality & performance is.

 

[Continuity27]

Originally posted by: n7
This guy is a flaming moron :laugh:

Originally, AMD didn't plan to have the X2s out till fall, so if they arrive by this summer, i think that's great.

Being "first" isn't necessarily the best; those who are intelligent will wait to by the X2s because they know what quality & performance is.

You've got that right. :thumbsup:

 

[Vishruth]

Originally posted by: sandorski
What part of "widespread availability in Q4" do you not understand? Let me splain it for the Slow: X2 will be available through many OEM/Systems manufacturers almost immediately. However, do not expect to buy an individual Retail X2 for some time, in this case Q4. Pretty simple concept.

Monarchcomputer.com has X2 retails for pre-ordering. Their ETA is the 6th of July.