I highly doubt there will be any OC headroom to speak of.
Even if the best binned chips go for the RX, I am guessing people will be lucky to get higher than 40-80MHz, since the default should already be pushing 1600MHz-1650MHz and they have already exceeded the TDP target, so, unless the reference cooler is amazing (something better than the tri-X), it will be thermal throttling all the time.
Yeah, pretty much, and nvidia's counter punch may just KO the entire launch price(s), assuming nvidia wants to do that.
Polaris was all about perf/watt.
Vega is all about... ???/??? TBD on RX launch.
BTW, just to add some more food for thought on Vega, the new iMac Pro says they will be using a card *slower* than the Vega FE. 11TFLOPS vs 13.
They say, over three times faster than previous iMac GPUs.
I believe the fastest they had before was a 580 class GPU.
And they are using a dual blower system to keep things cool.
I assume they are undervolting or even running Vega at a much lower speed than the FE, so, thermals won't get out of hand, and noise will be kept to a minimum.
Point here is, I doubt Apple would pick Vega if they didn't see that it could perform well for what their target audience will be, but the rub here is, they mention gameplay 'at max settings' as well.
Price is the only thing that can really save RX Vega at this point. Even though benchmarks show it currently slower (on average) than a 1080, I think RX Vega will somehow end up 5% faster than 1080 on average, but will probably see it's small lead entirely evaporate when both are OC'd.
I personally just don't see RX Vega coming in at less than $550 - a price point which will unfortunately not attracted anyone besides die hard AMD fans. But, as with all AMD 2nd tier cards, if there is a cutdown version I'm guessing it will be 10-15% faster than the 1070 for $399-449, making it much more attractive in perf/$ than RX Vega.
Well, I imagine AMD will be able to sell Vega as long as the mining craze continues, just on rep alone, even if it really isn't that great for mining. Course the craze will probably be over by the time Vega launches.
I highly doubt there will be any OC headroom to speak of.
Even if the best binned chips go for the RX, I am guessing people will be lucky to get higher than 40-80MHz, since the default should already be pushing 1600MHz-1650MHz and they have already exceeded the TDP target, so, unless the reference cooler is amazing (something better than the tri-X), it will be thermal throttling all the time.
Yeah, pretty much, and nvidia's counter punch may just KO the entire launch price(s), assuming nvidia wants to do that.
As if Ethereum is the only thing that can be mined:The card is horrible at mining.
33-35 MH/s for 350W
https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMinin...ition/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=comment_list
Nvidias mining card P106-100 can do 20-24MH/s. For $200 and it consumes 100-130W
Scratch that, even a Vega FE pays for itself in less than a year.
RTG will sell every GPU they can make.
As if Ethereum is the only thing that can be mined:
That's the definition of greed.RX 470 $200
750 H/s for ~100W
FE Vega $999
2600 H/s for 350W
Edit: Never heard about monero before. lol it got a tiny community on reddit. Cant really think of this as an alternative to bitcoin at all.
Is this where we have come to? Someone writes these little mining programs and hoping its the next bitcoin?
Sigh, these myths of saturated markets.Yep.
AMD is quite in a pickle with Vega.
Its over a year late and those who have been looking for a gaming GPU have bought 1070/1080 ages ago. We have the tiny group of people thats been ignoring those two cards for whatever reason and been waiting for Vega FX. What a letdown it must be if its another 1080 card for $500-$600.
AMD have screwed up bigtime. Not only will they only sell a tiny amount of cards due to being painfully late, but the cards they sell will be at a microscopic profit. They are basically forced to sell a 500mm behemoth GPU at lower price than what Nvidia sell the much smaller 300mm 1080 for. Price is one factor. Then they will need to convince people to buy a GPU that consumes a ton more watt than what 1080 use. We all know that this is important to a lot of gamers. It will be covered in every single review and its one big factor why Nvidia have been hugely successful with Pascal and Kepler.
Nvidia have AMD on a chokehold on the GPU front. They have 1 or even several gaming Volta's ready for launch more or less. Atleast very soon. They can dump the price on GTX 1080 easily making Vega history.
Sigh, these myths of saturated markets.
There wasn't a 1080 for 1070 price, or a 1080 Ti for 1080 price. And even if there were, there is constantly a stream of new people upgrading. Most users don't upgrade every year, yet despite the massive success of 970, the 1070 sold by the bucketloads.
Why?
Because there are other people looking to upgrade from their Kepler, Fermi, or even older era cards.
I've been sitting on my 390 precisely because the pricing of the current gen cards doesn't tickle my fancy for the performance boost I will get.
Whatever my upgrade will be, it will be with a new generation of cards, reducing prices for levels of performance. Vega could be the start of that, or I'll have to wait for Volta. We'll see.
As for die size, both 14nm and 16nm are very mature, and yields shouldn't be a problem. A decent profit would still be made even at 1070 pricing.
I was talking about 400$ yes. If what we are seeing is what we're going to get with Vega, then 400$ is the only place where AMD's statements would make sense.I refuse to think there are people that own a 390 or a GTX 980 looking at RX at thinking: "I didnt buy a 1070 or a 1080 and they have been out for 16 months. But this Vega that perform just like this 1080 and cost $50 less than the 1080 will for sure interest me because its new tech"
Thats the definition of buying in to AMDs marketing.
"It got HBM2". It still perform like a GDDR5X 1080
"Its a new architecture" It still perform like a 1080
If people skipped GTX 1080 (and ignored that it was a new architecture baxk then too) for "newer tech" like Vega.
Why get a power consuming unefficient hog like Vega? Wouldnt it be better to get a 1080 or wait for Volta?
I just cant find any arguments to get a Vega. Unless it cost $400. Then it got a pass.But only barely since its still a mediocre 1080. That we had for 16 months
Well, I imagine AMD will be able to sell Vega as long as the mining craze continues, just on rep alone, even if it really isn't that great for mining. Course the craze will probably be over by the time Vega launches.
Sigh, these myths of saturated markets.
There wasn't a 1080 for 1070 price, or a 1080 Ti for 1080 price. And even if there were, there is constantly a stream of new people upgrading. Most users don't upgrade every year, yet despite the massive success of 970, the 1070 sold by the bucketloads.
Why?
Because there are other people looking to upgrade from their Kepler, Fermi, or even older era cards.
I've been sitting on my 390 precisely because the pricing of the current gen cards doesn't tickle my fancy for the performance boost I will get.
Whatever my upgrade will be, it will be with a new generation of cards, reducing prices for levels of performance. Vega could be the start of that, or I'll have to wait for Volta. We'll see.
As for die size, both 14nm and 16nm are very mature, and yields shouldn't be a problem. A decent profit would still be made even at 1070 pricing.
Yeah its so late and power hungry that it cant cost more than 400-450usd.GTX1080 cost 499USD and vega is more than year late and will eat almost twice power.Vega's opportunity to make a dent in a "niche" market is VERY limited and is heavily strapped down by production costs and sunken R&D costs. We haven't seen a product this late and this far behind the competition in gaming since the HD 2900 XT 10 years ago, except in this instance it's much later into the market vs. the competition than the HD 2900 XT was.
its so late and lacking, thinking of getting a 580 to hold me over until volta lands .. buying into Pascal now with volta ~6months out also seems silly.
Yeah its so late and power hungry that it cant cost more than 400-450usd.GTX1080 cost 499USD and vega is more than year late and will eat almost twice power.
AMD need undercut GTX1080 even if vega is 10% faster than GTX1080.
RXvega 450USD
cutdown 350usd
Anything more than that and it will end as worst GPU ever made.
Yeah its so late and power hungry that it cant cost more than 400-450usd.GTX1080 cost 499USD and vega is more than year late and will eat almost twice power.
AMD need undercut GTX1080 even if vega is 10% faster than GTX1080.
RXvega 450USD
cutdown 350usd
Anything more than that and it will end as worst GPU ever made.
There is no way AMD can recoup their costs at $450 for the top tier RX Vega (doubtful at $500 as well). That price is neither high margin nor high volume pricing. Short of some miracle release driver, Vega is going to be the shortest lived flagship product in the last 10+ years.
It is unknown how much Apple is paying, if you go by how they treat their other suppliers, it is pretty much bottom of the line, with very little if any profit for the supplier.The real question is whether they will be able to recoup the costs already spent developing Vega. Since Apple will use Vega, as well as the upcoming APUs, in addition to straight graphics card sales, they very well may be able to, but only AMD will know for sure.
I don't understand your post/motives.
Buying 580 and living with a fraction of the performance of Vega because Vega is late?
For that matter, think of where the 980 Ti (2015s 1080 Ti) were when 1080 (Pascal) launched. 1080 was faster and less power, but factory OCd 980Ti wasn't that far behind. Same might be true of 1080Ti.
Personally I think it's a great time to buy. Vega + FreeSync or 1080Ti if you like your monitor.
I think he means shortest lived vs competition line of cards. If Volta released early 2018 or so, Vega will be virtually dead from that point on.How is Vega going to be AMD's shortest lived flagship? They have nothing else coming until Navi which is due the end of 2018 at the earliest. AMD has no choice but to live with Vega until then as its flagship. Hopefully they'll be able to work some more performance out with driver optimizations as well as helping tweek games for it..