AMD Vega (FE and RX) Benchmarks [Updated Aug 10 - RX Vega 64 Unboxing]

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Malogeek

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Mar 5, 2017
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FatherMurphy

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Mar 27, 2014
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Read PR speak. This happens with every new hardware release. We would see way more evidence from AMD if "trading blows" was the norm. If Vega 64 won 90% of the time, AMD wouldn't say trade blows. When Nvidia released the 1070, they said it was faster than Titan X maxwell, not "usually faster" or "trade blows" as it sometimes did. It' as simple as that. Reviews will prove me right or wrong.

They are really going after you on this point, tviceman.

I tend to agree, though, with the notion that "trading blows," when spoken by a Public Relations agent of AMD (or any company), is not likely to connote the same meaning as when spoken by the average, disinterested Joe. When Joe says "trading blows," it means more or less a tie. Win some and lose some and not necessarily 50% to each. Rough equivalents even if not empirically so.

On the other hand, PR speak is "optimistic" by its nature. It is positive spin. Best case scenario. Rarely do you see a tech company's PR people giving truly objective opinions on a product or technology before its launch. Look at JHH. He uses CEO math all the time (a colorful synonym for PR speak). If you let him do the reviews, yikes.

If the best AMD's PR people can offer is "Vega trades blows with the 1080" to professional reviewers like Anandtech, the safe bet is that "trading blows" is optimistically framed and a best case scenario. So, a reasonable deduction is that Vega wins some battles against the 1080 here and there, but at least half of them across the board? Not likely. If the data showed as much, wouldn't AMD's PR (who are no more objective than Nvidia's or any other company's PR) say something to the effect of "wins more often than not?" Coupled with the pricing, the emphasis on minimum frames rather than average frames, and the other performance numbers given by AMD (remember the pre-release Fury X performance numbers....) in Battlefield One showing 30-40% increase over Fury X, the impression I get is "trading blows" is likely to be a generous assessment.

The reviews will enlighten us all.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
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lol 104 GPUs on a single motherboard?

not only a waste of good gaming power... but also absurdly expensive to have running 24/7. unless you could set up shop in a server farm, the power draw would be pretty damn obvious. there's no way you'd come close to breaking even unless you're part of a huge pool. such a waste of energy imo
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
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This trading blows thing. Since we don't have anything better to do, I'll add my two cents to say that when I see a card win or lose by the margin of error (5% or so) I tend to call that "trading blows." so if the scrappy underdog wins three and loses seven but by an average of 5% or less, to me it can be honestly described as trading blows in that it's unlikely to make any real world difference.
 

tviceman

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This trading blows thing. Since we don't have anything better to do, I'll add my two cents to say that when I see a card win or lose by the margin of error (5% or so) I tend to call that "trading blows." so if the scrappy underdog wins three and loses seven but by an average of 5% or less, to me it can be honestly described as trading blows in that it's unlikely to make any real world difference.

I generally agree with this opinion. 5% real world makes an indiscernible difference, but arguments will still ensue. I maintain that AMD is describing Vega 64's best case scenario against a GTX 1080.
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
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Maybe they chose it because it is a benchmark because it is one where already the FE is doing better than the 1080.

Are you sure about that?

I tried to do a quick google search for reviews comparing FE with 1080 in BF1, but the only thing I found was this video review, where the two are neck and neck (which again, is also what AMD's numbers would suggest).

My bad, I miscalculated. But here is a 46% more in RottR for the Vega FE from an indipendent review, with early drivers (no tile based rasterization until August 14th, it seems).
https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graph...ition-16GB-Air-Cooled-Review/Rise-Tomb-Raider
So it depends on where the bottleneck is.

That's nice and all, but it's also quite obvious why AMD didn 't use RotTR in their marketing material. Vega FE may be 46% faster than Fury X here, but Fury X kind of sucks to begin with (24% slower than 1070). This ultimately means that even though Vega FE is 46% faster than Fury X, it's still 13% slower than 1080.

How so? Nvidia fans always complain about the green cards being so vastly superior because their geometry throughput...
Anyway, depends on the game and features turned on, but in any case having less bottleneck on geometry is preferrable to having one.

I'm guessing that you meant "brag" not "complain" (after all it would be weird to complain about your preferred brand being superior).

Honestly I couldn't care less about what fans of either side decides to tout as the latest and greatest feature, in which their chosen brand rules supreme.

Unless it's reflected in actual game performance it doesn't matter.

I am not saying anything before reviews come out. I already said that power consumption is a negative point. Many people, instead, are very fast to judge Vega as a failure before that, an this more due to their "brand loyalty". than facts.

People are not judging Vega as failure based upon brand loyalty, they are doing so based on AMD's own marketing material. And unless you think AMD outright lied in their material, this is indeed fact (albeit cherrypicked).

Also it's worth noting that this is only about Vega failing as an architecture on a perf/mm2 metric, not as a consumer product. Vega could utterly suck on a perf/mm2 metric and still be a great consumer product. As the saying goes, there is no such thing as bad products, only bad prices.

Facts that must take in account the novelty of the architecture and that the actual Vega chip will address much more than the gaming market.
I own an Nvidia card, but being a tech enthusiast I will be objective until I see the actual results.

Regarding the novelty of the architecture, I suppose it is possible that AMD FineWine(R) will strike again, but they look to have one hell of a hill to climb in this regard. Vega doesn't really appear to be all that exceptional outside of the gaming market either, with the exception of its low price (compared to quadro cards), seeing as it trades blows with GP102 (and quite often loses).

Also I don't really think that downplaying AMD's own marketing material and arguing that Vega will somehow be better than what AMD is claiming is particularly objective. I mean, by all means we should wait for reviews, but when was the last time you saw a product perform better in reviews than in the marketing material?
 
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leoneazzurro

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2016
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Link me where I said Vega will be better _at launch_ than AMD's own material. Speaking of arguing for the sake of arguing itself. I said it will improve with time due to the novelty of architecture.
But of course, if the purpose is trolling people, it's another matter.
And this is confirmed by you finding the DX11 review on that channel, and omitting the DX12 version where the FE is around 10% above the 1080.
Put in ignore list.
 
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Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
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Read PR speak. This happens with every new hardware release. We would see way more evidence from AMD if "trading blows" was the norm. If Vega 64 won 90% of the time, AMD wouldn't say trade blows. When Nvidia released the 1070, they said it was faster than Titan X maxwell, not "usually faster" or "trade blows" as it sometimes did. It' as simple as that. Reviews will prove me right or wrong.
It's not that I disagree with your opinion, it's more the way it is worded that is likely causing the gap. I don't really care what anyone says, I care to see the reviews / benches when they hit
 

JDG1980

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Jul 18, 2013
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AMD will simply never compete in DX11 games.

Then AMD will never compete in gaming GPUs again. It's clear at this point that DX12 is a niche technology; it puts a much bigger burden on the developers' shoulders, for not much benefit in most cases. Nvidia is happy to do optimization for DX11, and since they hold >80% of the gaming GPU market, most AAA games will continue to be made in DX11 for the forseeable future.
 
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JDG1980

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http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2013/12/Vega_Shader_ISA_28July2017.pdf

In general ISA of Vega is focused on Graphics improvements, and FP16.

I was curious about the V_XAD_U32 instruction, since the slide deck said it was designed for "hash/cryptocurrencies". According to this PDF, it XORs two 32-bit integer values and adds a third value; a note helpfully says it "exists to accelerate the SHA256 hash algorithm". I know Bitcoin uses that, but Bitcoin was killed by ASICs years ago. Do the other cryptocurrencies need operations like this?
 
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antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
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Link me where I said Vega will be better _at launch_ than AMD's own material. Speaking of arguing for the sake of arguing itself. I said it will improve with time due to the novelty of architecture..

Why in the world would I have to link you such a claim, when I never said that you claimed this?

I only said that you have been arguing that Vega would be better than what AMD has been showing in their marketing material. I never said anything about launch. Hell, I even agreed that it was possible (albeit unlikely) that Vega could improve with time, to the point where it could be seen as competitive from an architectural point of view.

But of course, if the purpose is trolling people, it's another matter.
And this is confirmed by you finding the DX11 review on that channel, and omitting the DX12 version where the FE is around 10% above the 1080.
Put in ignore list.

I didn't link the DX12 version for one very simple reason. All of the cards perform worse in DX12 than in DX11 (which can be seen by comparing the two videos, but even more easily seen here for the 1080, where DX11 is roughly 30% faster than DX12), and as such no sane human would ever run the game in DX12 mode over DX11.

If you actually think cards should be judged based upon the API in which they perform the worst, then you previous claims of being objective are starting to look pretty weak.
 
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Muhammed

Senior member
Jul 8, 2009
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Do the other cryptocurrencies need operations like this?
Yes they do. In a recnet pcper podcast with two members of AMD driver team, they said they are increasing support for their hash capabilities to cater for the "growing" mining market. So I guess AMD will capitalize on the opportunity to make more bucks, gamers be damned.
 

Magic Hate Ball

Senior member
Feb 2, 2017
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Cause filename was "RX-64-VEGA-final.exe"
/joking .
I am guessing cause it is shipping in boxes with a disc in it with driver version x.
I don't want to sound like a tinfoil case, but with how last-minute the driver work seems to be, I assume that the in-box disk is out of date by a month.

Not that there'll be a magic +10-30% boost hah.
 
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