AMD vs Nvidia image quality

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,008
2,278
136
Starting this topic so as not to diverge much from the Forza 7 benchmark thread where references to other games seem to have become the larger focus re image quality.

As many of us (old enough) to recall, Nvidia was once caught cheating back in 2003 IIRC with their failed FX series and a driver release that turned down settings to gain a higher futuremark score. It was quickly spotted by many and NV were rightly pilloried over this. I know of no other instance where that may have occurred over the years. This unfortunately seemed to have given birth to the myth that AMD have 'superior image quality' to this day and with many users tirelessly scrounging the internet for any perceived differences whether false, different settings used, non-reproducible in other instances or the rare driver glitch that is usually quickly rectified.

One setting that may (or may not depending on game) which could be cited as affecting IQ is anisotropic filtering. This setting (with very old GPU architectures) used to incur a larger performance penalty, so was left to the user to determine optimal setting in driver CP. As of 2004/2005 and onwards (with Nvidias 6xxx series), AF was no longer a taxing setting for GPUs, but was still left to users as an 'application controlled' setting by default in the driver CP. I have always set that to the max (AFx16) upon every driver install regardless because it did seem to improve IQ and level of detail in most cases.

In my view, image quality is a HUGE matter! I would rather choose a much weaker GPU with better IQ if it was proven that that one brand cannot match the other in that area. If both manufacturers do their work properly, everything should look equally good in all games. There are still areas that may be open for debate like different AA modes or settings, where each brand may follow different philosophies. But I dont believe that is definitive or consistent with all games equally, where one brand comes out as decidedly superior to the other.

Thoughts?
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,604
257
126
Really, really not a good idea to go here.

The ability of humans to alter their perception of what they're seeing to fit their prejudged prejudices is truly incredible. Combine that with the very obvious levels of built in prejudice here and.....
 

Guru

Senior member
May 5, 2017
830
361
106
I've seen few example like in Prey, Mafia 3 and few others, but nothing major. It could obviously be due to lightning due to day/night cycle, some sort of lens flare or smog effect, blur effect, etc...

I have not seen blatant low image quality on Nvidia or AMD graphics.
 

Muhammed

Senior member
Jul 8, 2009
453
199
116
IHVs won't allow image quality to be reduced by their competitors, they will call them out on it immediately as they keep watching each other.

For example, and in addition to the 3DMark fiasco you mentioned, NVIDIA called AMD out when they switched to using lower precision formats on some HDR elements, this forced AMD to make separate option in the driver to enable these optimizations. Same thing happened with the Tessellation factor.

NVIDIA also called AMD out on their botched AF implementation during the HD 4000 and HD 5000 series, they later fixed them in GCN, (though with Vega, the issue seemed to creep back in as a result of a driver bug).

So rest assured AMD will call NVIDIA out if they dropped the ball on image quality and vice versa.
 

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,762
760
136
Really, really not a good idea to go here.

The ability of humans to alter their perception of what they're seeing to fit their prejudged prejudices is truly incredible. Combine that with the very obvious levels of built in prejudice here and.....

Yep, the thread couldn't even make it past post #4 before it went off the rails... The forum may be best served by locking this thread even if the OP intentions were to create worthwhile conversation.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
Tbh I'm not aware of any image quality differences when playing - both companies do shader replacement in drivers and that can lower image quality (e.g. lowering tessellation) but when you are playing the game (not studying a static screen shot at 4*zoom) it's pretty well impossible to tell. That matters where you want to bench company 1 gpu vs company 2 gpu if one company has decided to lower the quality and the other hasn't. Sure in that game it is what it is but it doesn't translate to other games so isn't a true indicator of overall performance.

I worry more about variable frame times and stutter these days as that seems the more serious issue then some minor difference in image quality.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Either I'm blind or unless I have current images up at the same time, switching from AMD to Nvidia I don't recall noticing any major IQ differences.

Outside of the well documented ones, the last few times this topic popped up around here it was human error. The source material to the make the arguments were either botched by the creator or a miscommunication. For example, the recent one in the Forza thread it seems the uploader didn't note in the video description, but in the comments, that he was using different sources for a comparison. The videos for Battlefield turned out to be a driver bug that people recreated using both company cards.

I'd side in the camp of if either is blatantly cheating, the other will call them out. They've been doing it for years.
 
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nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,762
760
136
Either I'm blind or unless I have current images up at the same time, switching from AMD to Nvidia I don't recall noticing any major IQ differences.

Outside of the well documented ones, the last few times this topic popped up around here it was human error. The source material to the make the arguments were either botched by the creator or a miscommunication. For example, the recent one in the Forza thread it seems the uploader didn't note in the video description, but in the comments, that he was using different sources for a comparison. The videos for Battlefield turned out to be a driver bug that people recreated using both company cards.

I'd side in the camp of if either is blatantly cheating, the other will call them out. They've been doing it for years.
Agreed. I think a lot of the recent issues comes down to the way our news and reviews are produced/consumed. There is such a rush from all parties involved to be the first out of the gate; be it a game, a driver or a review that the finer details/issues are missed or forgotten.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
IHVs won't allow image quality to be reduced by their competitors, they will call them out on it immediately as they keep watching each other.

For example, and in addition to the 3DMark fiasco you mentioned, NVIDIA called AMD out when they switched to using lower precision formats on some HDR elements, this forced AMD to make separate option in the driver to enable these optimizations. Same thing happened with the Tessellation factor.

NVIDIA also called AMD out on their botched AF implementation during the HD 4000 and HD 5000 series, they later fixed them in GCN, (though with Vega, the issue seemed to creep back in as a result of a driver bug).

So rest assured AMD will call NVIDIA out if they dropped the ball on image quality and vice versa.

This is exactly correct. They watch each other and would jump immediately on each other if there was a problem they could use to their advantage to make the other look bad.
 

Excessi0n

Member
Jul 25, 2014
140
36
101
There are a few quality settings in the Nvidia drivers which are not at maximum by default. Don't know about AMD, I haven't had one of their cards.
 

UglyDuckling

Senior member
May 6, 2015
390
35
61
IHVs won't allow image quality to be reduced by their competitors, they will call them out on it immediately as they keep watching each other.

For example, and in addition to the 3DMark fiasco you mentioned, NVIDIA called AMD out when they switched to using lower precision formats on some HDR elements, this forced AMD to make separate option in the driver to enable these optimizations. Same thing happened with the Tessellation factor.

NVIDIA also called AMD out on their botched AF implementation during the HD 4000 and HD 5000 series, they later fixed them in GCN, (though with Vega, the issue seemed to creep back in as a result of a driver bug).

So rest assured AMD will call NVIDIA out if they dropped the ball on image quality and vice versa.


Funny guy, drivers for 5850 reduced LOD in BFBC2 on purpose to stay with the GTX 400 series but people over looked it, i only know because i had a GTX 480 and Radeon 5850.

Roll on now and it's a reversal for many games, it's mostly shown in AA though.
 

Muhammed

Senior member
Jul 8, 2009
453
199
116
Funny guy, drivers for 5850 reduced LOD in BFBC2 on purpose to stay with the GTX 400 series but people over looked it, i only know because i had a GTX 480 and Radeon 5850.

Roll on now and it's a reversal for many games, it's mostly shown in AA though.
Without substantial evidence your words are hollow, what you are describing could be a driver bug, a game bug, or even an API bug or difference, as BFBC2 supported both DX10 and DX11.
 

OatisCampbell

Senior member
Jun 26, 2013
302
83
101
Ummmm...cheating in 2003 is somehow worth mentioning in 2017?!

Look up Quack/ATi, the image quality of the ATi Rage Fury MAXX that they gave up on making drivers for, and the original FCAT frame pacing articles and run in terror from AMD/ATi cards.

Or just remember that it's 2017 and NVIDIA probably didn't get to their 80% market share with low image quality, and AMD/ATi has not had any problems in that realm for a long time either from what I remember.

The metrics people use these days are price/performance, compatibility with their monitor of choice, and power/heat/noise. Image quality has been similar a very long time as far as I know.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,011
6,459
136
I doubt that there's much of a difference or even if there were a very minor one that the average person could tell. If you really wanted to test it, you'd want to grab about 20 different games and then get about 5 screenshots from each with the same settings being used. It might be difficult to exact matches unless using stills from cut scenes or right when starting a level, but you don't want people to base their judgments on anything outside of quality of the images.

Once you have that, have people pick which they think is better. My guess is that it essentially comes out 50/50 unless you give people a "no difference" option. The probability of deviating much further than a 60/40 split in either direction if there is no actual discernible difference is incredibly low.
 

UglyDuckling

Senior member
May 6, 2015
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amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,008
2,278
136
This is the worst sort of source referencing to back up whatever argument you may have. It points to a random forum poster who doesnt seem to understand what the hell may be going on. With certain monitors (including mine), an HDMI connection may erratically default to 'limited' rather than 'full' RGB. All it requires is someone with half a brain to recognize it and go into the CP and set it to full. Saying it has to do with Nvidias 'color compression' all I can say is holy facepalm! Jeez.. the barrel bottom scraping some peeps have to go through to post this crap.
 
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amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,008
2,278
136
OK, just had a look at the other link. Even more laughable. The image quality complainer seems to have resolved his issue. His findings (brace yourself...):




Posted August 7, 2016 · Original Poster
so this is a theory but might work



we must delete all game files (not format)

and even games

after that we must go to regedit

i dont know but we should set it all to default

and we need to search for more game files that is hidden in appdata or something

then after finally removed

use ddu and remove driver

plug a usb/cd/or anything that have the driver installer

redownload the driver

download 1 game

play it.. if it is having a shadow box issue then trash my theory that the games is causing this problem



and one things



the real solution



when i was temporarily banned from linustechtips i decided to bring my pc to a rest house (yeah why would i bring a pc right?)

we were in vacation so...



my pc is already set and nothing is remove and my pc is small thats why (small casing/small monitor) but still heavy



i plug my pc there

at first it dont work because i havent notice that some plugs are not plugged



and it finally worked it opened

see my games in there



i try to play there

no internet or something just pc with games



it was flawless.. never seen a flaw or something in the graphics



yeah quite impossible..



and i got home last 2 days



plug my pc back in

have some complications due to cables but i manage to open it again



there it is again



beautiful but goddang issue



but i just play my games now i dont want to die searching for a solution that is might never be find by a man.. im enjoying witcher 3 even with some flaws but its okay..





so the solution is... fix the electricity in your house or in your goddang neighborhood... or just leave your house and buy another house miles away from your house and live there with your pc...
btw i dont notice flaws in the pc when im in the rest house maybe due to the lightning of the house or i just really think it would work so i dont say that there is really no issue the rest house or is it just me thinking that it actually work but it may.. be
Referencing another moronic kid to make an argument... tsk, tsk..
 

UglyDuckling

Senior member
May 6, 2015
390
35
61
Disregard my first link and only look at the second, <redacted>.

"kid" ?

Sadly some of us can see passed your limited IQ.

1 person said they fixed it, what about the hundreds of others? go to GeForce forums and see them over there too.

Profanity and insulting others is not allowed here.
Markfw
Anandtech Moderator
 
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amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,008
2,278
136
Disregard my first link and only look at the second, <redacted>.

"kid" ?

Sadly some of us can see passed your limited IQ.

1 person said they fixed it, what about the hundreds of others? go to GeForce forums and see them over there too.
I was not casting aspersions to yourself personally. 'Random forum poster' and 'moronic kid' was referring to your sources. Somehow you thought I was addressing you so your 'dickhead' response.. OK, whatever. So rather than providing 'proper sourcing' of outstanding issues re Nvidia image quality, you found these halfwit kids whom as you can see by the quality of their posts were rather clueless about their issues and potential causes.

We KNOW that Nvidia had an issue with HDMI not putting out full RGB a few years ago that was resolved with driver updates long since. There were workarounds for that by switching to DVI-DL or DP. Are you able to provide proper sources that do not refer to THAT (since it is a non-issue today)? There have been countless folks (here and elsewhere) switching from both GPU vendors over the years whom do not agree with your assessment that Nvidia has in any way lesser IQ than AMD or vice versa. All you have going on were based on myths arising from NVs 2003 cheat incident and an issue (non-issue to most who knew the workarounds) long since resolved (HDMI output) . Thus far you have failed to provide proper sources for your case that describe any issue of the sort that is relevant today.

p.s. I think we know the no.1 person who would jump on any IQ issues if they were to be found on an Nvidia card and who would relentlessly pursue it if there were any merit to it. Interestingly, he does comment on that briefly (Nvidia having 'richer colors' than Vega but puts that down to shadowplay). So we know his eye is determinedly on the lookout for these things. As well as him having cards from both vendors that he tests, compares and works on almost on a daily basis.
 
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