AMD's PileDriver Possibly Cancelled!! (Rumor)

[eternalone]

Rumblings are a going on.

Well, one reason could be that, maybe, there is not enough improvement in per core performance from "Bulldozer" to "Piledriver" to justify the new product release, as it wouldn't improve the competitive position against Intel in the desktop segment at all. Whether it is 'instruction per clock' IPC or pure clock frequency, both have to contribute to the end performance to justify the product.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/better-...-not-piledriver-to-be-the-saviour-/17020.html

http://technewspedia.com/rumor-amd-cpu-canceled-their-vishera/

http://www.overclock.net/t/1296895/amd-piledriver-canceled

 

[eternalone]

Sad if true.

 

[inf64]

Maybe use search function? The rumor is BS and AMD is staying committed to performance market in the future:

Legit Reviews recently noticed that a number of sites are saying that AMD has cancelled their desktop Piledriver processors codenamed Vishera and other sites are reporting that Piledriver will be the last of performance CPU from AMD. Will AMD be discontinuing its performance processors for the desktop market after the launch of Vishera? We find it hard to believe that AMD would stop developing Steamroller (2013) and Excavator (2014), but you never know as AMD is starting to focus on APU's these days. AMD normally just provides the following response when we ask about online rumors or breaking news - “We don’t comment on rumors.” We were shocked to hear something different when we heard back from them this morning. It was a simple one line statement that says AMD remains committed to the performance processor market. We will have to see how this unfolds in the months to come!

Vishera slides have been posted online last week:
http://666kb.com/i/c6nq04mym74m5zulu.png
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,1...4320-Taktraten-Vishera-CPUs-Trinity/CPU/News/
Vishera is supposed to be launched in late September/early October.

So in a nutshell: Piledriver cancelled=BS , AMD exiting desktop perf. market= BS.
Search the forums next time.

 

[eternalone]

They did not deny nor confirm. As your article states

"We will have to see how this unfolds in the months to come!"

So lets wait and see.

 

[Homeles]

This thread's over. Head home.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Question is, what happens after that. Real CPUs or only APUs from 2013 on? If only APUs, that would be very bad as they always have to lower thread count and/or clock speed to accomodate the large GPU part. That would make the CPU part even less competitive.

 

[Homeles]

The demise of the CPU is inevitable. Still, I don't believe Vishera is their last performance part.

 

[guskline]

I think PileDriver will be released because it seems most of the work was already done to "tweek" the Bulldozer series and I doubt the manufacturing costs will be much different than the Bulldozer. Perhaps the question should be, "does this spell the demise of the Steamroller or will it turn out to be an APU not CPU"?

I have my own hunch that PileDrivers have been produced that have better thermals (easier OCing) and some other tweeks to make them more attractive vs SB/IB but I doubt they will overtake them in performance.

 

[Ajay]

The demise of the CPU is inevitable. Still, I don't believe Vishera is their last performance part.

CPUs aren't going anywhere - it's just going to become increasingly rare to find 'standalone' CPUs as this decade moves along. I assume that's what you meant. I also agree with you about AMD continuing to produce performance parts. I'm just not sure how they are going to do that @ 28 nm (Steamroller).

 

[Idontcare]

This thread's over. Head home.

While I generally put zero stock into random AMD rumors on the internet, and this one is no different, I can see why people take exception to the AMD statements such as the one you posted because they do contain wording that seems to be wordsmithed to imply one thing while avoiding saying anything.

Take your screengrab for example. "There have been no changes". The intended implication here is obvious, we (the uninformed reader) are intended to assume this means Vishera and Piledriver are not cancelled and they will be released.

But that is not what he says. He says there are no changes, what we don't know (but are led to assume is not the case) is if these products were already/previously cancelled and as such there has been no recent change in the prior cancellation status of those products.

AMD cancelled the 28nm successor to Brazos, its not like they don't do these things. And so far the responses from AMD sources has been more smoke and mirrors wordsmithing than not.

If someone came out and said "Piledriver/Vishera IS going to be released in 2012" then that would be a definitive refutation of the rumor that suggests it has been cancelled.

But for some reason, despite AMD peoples being willing to speak out regarding the rumor, they won't refute the rumor itself nor provide anything compelling to substantiate the argument that it will be released.

"nothing has changed, because what you don't know is that we cancelled it months ago and that plan to cancel it has not changed one iota "

 

[guskline]

Idontcare, you make a good point. Anyone who followed the saga prior to release of the Bulldozer knows that point well. BTW I snagged a Bulldozer 8150 for $170 new so I'm playing with it now.

 

[sequoia464]

I think PileDriver will be released ...

I have my own hunch that PileDrivers have been produced that have better thermals (easier OCing) and some other tweeks to make them more attractive vs SB/IB but I doubt they will overtake them.

This is pretty much what I have been able to glean from my searches as well, and, like Inf64 stated; Looking like late Sept or early Oct.

Hope they get the thermals under control also, I haven't read any comments anywhere yet about that.

No real knowledge here, just trying to piece together everything I have seen so far on this.

 

[guskline]

This is pretty much what I have been able to glean from my searches as well, and, like Inf64 stated; Looking like late Sept or early Oct.

Hope they get the thermals under control also, I haven't read any comments anywhere yet about that.

No real knowledge here, just trying to piece together everything I have seen so far on this.

There were some articles late last year after Bulldozer release, that PileDriver would use a new "mesh" technology that would significantly improve thermals and allow the base clock to climb on the 8150 to 4 Ghz. From the short time I've had the Bulldozer in rig 3 below, I've found thermals "take off" on this chip at 4.3 Ghz or above. Right now I have a CM Hyper 212+ cooler, but have a Corsair H100 and a much better case on the way.

 

[Phynaz]

Could explain why their stock price has dropped below $4 a share :'(

 

[Idontcare]

Hope they get the thermals under control also, I haven't read any comments anywhere yet about that.

You wrote thermals (temperature) but I'm thinking you meant to write power-consumption?

Bulldozer doesn't have a thermal issue per-se, does it?

 

[guskline]

Could explain why their stock price has dropped below $4 a share :'(

Won't argue the point, its a good one. They probably need cash flow. I think I read they had to borrow a ton of $$$ to make a previous debt payment. Maybe after Apple's verdict over Samsung Friday afternoon, the settlent offer from Samsung will be "we'll buy you AMD and give it to you in full satisfaction of the verdict"

 

[guskline]

You wrote thermals (temperature) but I'm thinking you meant to write power-consumption?

Bulldozer doesn't have a thermal issue per-se, does it?

If OC'd over @4.2 Ghz it does.

 

[Idontcare]

There were some articles late last year after Bulldozer release, that PileDriver would use a new "mesh" technology that would significantly improve thermals and allow the base clock to climb on the 8150 to 4 Ghz. From the short time I've had the Bulldozer in rig 3 below, I've found thermals "take off" on this chip at 4.3 Ghz or above. Right now I have a CM Hyper 212+ cooler, but have a Corsair H100 and a much better case on the way.

That is the resonant mesh clock.

A highly respected member here tipped me off to this presentation available on the internet regarding the pro's and con's of resonant clocking.

(I won't divulge that member's name since they came to me by pm, but credit goes to them for the link )

Clockspeed-wide it looks like resonant clocking provides a rather narrow window of benefits. Too low of a clockspeed (<2.9GHz) and it actually consumes more power than conventional. Likewise if the clocks get much above 4.5GHz or so.

At the targeted clocks of 3.9-4.0GHz it looks to yield about a 5% reduction in total power-usage under load provided the temperatures are kept low. Not exactly a hail mary or holy grail for AMD, unfortunately

 

[sequoia464]

You wrote thermals (temperature) but I'm thinking you meant to write power-consumption?

Bulldozer doesn't have a thermal issue per-se, does it?

You are correct, my knowledge here is obviously limited - I should have said power consumption.

Thanks for the link on the resonant clock mesh. I think I understand the 5% for application and the 10% reduction at idle. What is the -25% "clock power" reference about?

 

[Edgy]

AMD released the original Bulldozer which were relatively weaker in per core performance let alone minor improvement over the last generation Phenom IIs...

Based on that history, can't see "not enough improvement in per core performance" as the sole reason (or primary one for that matter) for cancelling Piledrivers if that's what they plan to do.

 

[guskline]

That is the resonant mesh clock.

A highly respected member here tipped me off to this presentation available on the internet regarding the pro's and con's of resonant clocking.

(I won't divulge that member's name since they came to me by pm, but credit goes to them for the link )

Clockspeed-wide it looks like resonant clocking provides a rather narrow window of benefits. Too low of a clockspeed (<2.9GHz) and it actually consumes more power than conventional. Likewise if the clocks get much above 4.5GHz or so.

At the targeted clocks of 3.9-4.0GHz it looks to yield about a 5% reduction in total power-usage under load provided the temperatures are kept low. Not exactly a hail mary or holy grail for AMD, unfortunately

Wow the article I read didn't go into detail about the difference in power reduction. Perhaps the resonant clock mesh will allow AMD to market the 8350 PileDriver as a true stock 8 core CPU running at 4 Ghz. The fine print will probably mention that OCing is "limited".

 

[Ajay]

Wow the article I read didn't go into detail about the difference in power reduction. Perhaps the resonant clock mesh will allow AMD to market the 8350 PileDriver as a true stock 8 core CPU running at 4 Ghz. The fine print will probably mention that OCing is "limited".

My guess would be that it's there more for Trinity and Servers. One rumor I read (I should write down the dang URLs) points to much higher inefficiency in PD based servers. It is looking like AMD got better power consumption than performance out of their "15% higher performance/watt". If that's the case, AMD could choose to make PD server parts but stick with BD and Trinity on the Desktop - though I think it would odd not to take advantage of the higher volume production of a PD desktop chip to increase gross margins per wafer.

I'm still stuck on how Steamroller could be a high performance CPU on Glofo's 28nm HP process. AMD and Jim Keller's team must be dying waiting for the 20nm SHP node. It will likely be the first part that will have Keller's hand prints on it - though no time for any major architectural changes, obviously.

Based on what little I know, I think it would be smarter release PD, drop Steamroller (28nm) and put everything in "Excavator" @ 20nm (except for any HP or LP parts) - especially with AMD's reduced resources after the layoffs.

A shorter version I what I just wrote is Blah, Blah, AMD, Blah, Blah , Blah

 

[Smoblikat]

Maybe use search function? The rumor is BS and AMD is staying committed to performance market in the future:



Vishera slides have been posted online last week:
http://666kb.com/i/c6nq04mym74m5zulu.png
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,1...4320-Taktraten-Vishera-CPUs-Trinity/CPU/News/
Vishera is supposed to be launched in late September/early October.

So in a nutshell: Piledriver cancelled=BS , AMD exiting desktop perf. market= BS.
Search the forums next time.

If thats true then they should be almost as fast as a phenom 2 by 2014.

 

[Ajay]

That is the resonant mesh clock.

A highly respected member here tipped me off to this presentation available on the internet regarding the pro's and con's of resonant clocking.

I may have missed something reading this (thanks, btw, very interesting) was weather or not the cleaner clock signals prevailed above Fmax. While power saving drop off I wonder if increasing clock driver strength to RM above 4GHz would give a clean signal and enable higher clocks to be reached (for enthusiasts)?

Now all we need are fatter cores, more execution ports, faster decoding, a larger L1 and smaller faster L2 and we'll be getting somewhere

 

[Ajay]

If thats true then they should be almost as fast as a phenom 2 by 2014.

LOL! (I can't believe AT doesn't have a lol smiley!)