"AMD's role in Stealth Viral Marketing - Q&A" source ABT link inside

[Arzachel]

I dont really care if there are focus group members here, hidden or otherwise.

As long as they obey the rules and dont pull a rollo (disrupt the forum with bulls**t and lies) then I dont really see the problem. Its not like people are going to be unbiased just because they are not getting free hardware.

Agreed. I actually feel that disclosing that you're affiliated with a company is somewhat wrong, because it's borderline impossible to control. Look at Keys, even though he's well spoken and usually quite polite, he gets far too much flak due to his signature. While his posts might favor Nvidia, people often tend to personal attacks because of his affiliations instead of rebutting his arguments.

 

[lifeblood]

Rollo certainly made the forum a less pleasant place but I doubt that he helped to sell any more NV cards.

I was looking at some forum threads at NVNews and Rollo appears to be something of a joke even there. Some people just don't learn.

If I was AMD/nVidia/Intel, I would monitor these forums. Not to troll, but to see what the tech communities opinion is of my and the competitions products. Some of us do work for big companies and influence or decide large IT purchasing decisions. Our opinions do matter. Not our individual opinions, but our collective opinions. I really don't know how much good VM is though. I don't care how many positive posts or "blind taste test" their are, Bulldozer is not going to get any better. That's because the benchmarks don't lie, and for every AMD shill, their were far more non-shills who are ready to call it what it was.

I'm sorry, but apoppin needs to come up with a smoking gun. What hes shown so far is nothing but innuendo. And while I'm at it, Anandtech does excellent research, articles, and evaluations. Attacking this website (even just the forums) does not endear me to his side.

 

[blastingcap]

Disagree on this. Performance becomes irrelevant once you instill an emotional attachment to a brand. That's a large part of the viral marketing, and marketing in general, quotient. Doing it via a tech forum is a good way to instill that sort of emotion.

If you'd of seen Rollo in his heyday here you would of seen a perfect example. He was a masterful troll and manipulator and really good at it, nothing to be commended for, it's like saying someone is a good thief or bank robber. He trolled endlessly, baited and had people infracted, warned and banned. He had his own fan club and troupe around here, many of them were even recommending him to be a mod - and this was after it came out that he was a nvidia compensated viral marketing shill and liar.

Marketers whether viral or otherwise are trying to get you to be emotionally attached to their brand, after that performance considerations even become moot. I remember people praising the 2900XT when it was an obvious turd the same way I saw people waiting a good year after the 5870/5850 came out to finally buy a GTX 460 because they are just that loyal to nvidia.

I don't think viral marketing did much. Heck, Nvidia's announcements and announcements of announcements re: Fermi, probably did more to hold people off from buying an Evergreen chip, than any VM they did or could have done.

There are a lot of factors that feed into brand loyalty that I don't think can properly be attributed to viral marketing. Rightly or wrongly, ATI had a bad rep for drivers, especially Crossfire, and they had smaller market share and some people had never owned an ATI/AMD card. There's a lot of inertia involved where if people buy a GeForce and it seems fine, they keep buying GeForces until an alternative not only ties, but conclusively BEATS the GeForce option. Nvidia also has held the performance crown for longer than AMD has, over the years, which doesn't help its image. It's easier to retain an existing customer than get a new one, so goes the marketing adage... and that's part of why market share is important. That people held out for Fermi was a product of all of these factors and more.

I'm not saying viral marketing can't impact brand loyalty at all, but it's small fry and only impacts sales at the margins. Build a better product, price it right, and people will buy it; AMD proved that with Evergreen. I'd rather that both Nvidia and AMD invest less in marketing and more in R&D.

 

[blackened23]

I don't think viral marketing did much. Heck, Nvidia's announcements and announcements of announcements re: Fermi, probably did more to hold people off from buying an Evergreen chip, than any VM they did or could have done.

I tend to disagree. If you take for example the guerrilla marketing that NV did with Fermi before its release, their spin was to basically convince everyone that the GTX 480 would be way better than the 5870 and everyone should wait a little longer to get a better card. By all accounts they started their campaign immediately after 5870 was release and it was effective. You can't tell me you don't remember the claims of how GTX 480 would destroy the 5870 - they did it through the same methods we see today -- Transparency and rumors that appear to be credible, that are perpetuated at sites like fud, chiphell, dh, etc. Although I don't think they go trolling through the forums, we're almost certain they had marketing firms perpetuate exaggerated rumors through chiphell and other sites.

 

[blastingcap]

I tend to disagree. If you take for example the guerrilla marketing that NV did with Fermi before its release, their spin was to basically convince everyone that the GTX 480 would be way better than the 5870 and everyone should wait a little longer to get a better card. By all accounts they started their campaign immediately after 5870 was release and it was effective. You can't tell me you don't remember the claims of how GTX 480 would destroy the 5870 - they did it through the same methods we see today -- Transparency and rumors that appear to be credible, that are perpetuated at sites like fud, chiphell, dh, etc. Although I don't think they go trolling through the forums, we're almost certain they had marketing firms perpetuate exaggerated rumors through chiphell and other sites.

I think it's likely that most graphics card purchasers don't even read forums. Or speculation sites or whatever. They might ask a friend or read a review site or shop at a store, though.

My memories of 2009 are a bit foggy, but apparently the me of a few years ago was unimpressed by the rumors/speculations surrounding Fermi, and I bought a HD 5850 at launch for about $250. I gave little weight to forums and much more weight to reviews, perf/watt, perf/price, etc.

Prior to that, I had a HD 4670 which I bought on sale with some misgivings, since all my discrete cards previously had been NVidia or 3DFX. But the HD 4670 driver was fine, and it killed any "AMD has bad drivers" fears for me, which gave me confidence to buy the HD 5850.

So if AMD and NVidia are reading this: spend less money on marketing and more money on improving software/hardware, please.

 

[Ronin]

5 years later, it all comes around again. I can't help but chuckle.

 

[railven]

Why do people keep bringing up the chiphell incident.. If you know how to read mandarin, the mods there never came up with any evidence that nVIDIA was connected since so many users were asking for proof. I think that thread should be locked because it has virtually no substance.

Hey, that's the beauty about opinions - they are formed from information at hand and would vary. The timing is funny, Chiphell claims they have nVidia shills and not that long after no we're discussing AMD shills.

Deflection achieved.

Merit of the accusations? As valid as the ones made here. I don't need to be able to read mandarin to understand something is up.

And I agree with you about locking these threads, you should see my first post in this thread

nVIDIA was caught for viral marketing a long time ago. They came forth and admitted to it, changed ways, made their focus members public to boot. That was the end of that and I cant see them doing anything like AEG again. Most of the focus members Ive dealt was very helpful, along them was ChrisRay. These guys (minus Rollo and a few) weren't there downplaying AMD tech left right centre but instead helping nVIDIA users get most out of their cards and share their experience so that others can learn about/enjoy their new products. SLi AA for instance was implemented (not anymore though) due to the community and one focus group member who sadly passed away.

I've yet to see an nVidia Focus Group Member really dedicate themselves to a person with nVidia hardware issues problems - at least no here. And I've been lurking for years. Maybe in a more nvidia friendly environment, but than that doesn't really make the focus group the hero, does it?

I've seen people here offer more solutions from both sides of the fence. And that's why I like ATF. The sides feel balanced. As blasting said - no one idea is let run free without contest, right or wrong. Opinions will vary and thus discussion is born.

Sorry for going OT, but with regards to the OP the question of whether or not there are AMD shills on these boards and others is yet to be proved. This doesn't mean they don't exist either which would be very very naive to think so. So for me, Im just keeping an eye of how these recent events unfold.

Again, this is where people seem to get confused. I've yet to read anyone post here that there is absolutely not doubt in their mind that there are no AMD shills. They ask, like I, for names and for those people to come clean or for someone to out them. Appopin is sitting over at ABT going off about names, hand books, etc etc that he has that can blow this thing over. What does he do? Link to incidents on his forum where he collaborated with an AMD Marketer. Are we talking about JF-AMD? That guy got run out of town (rightly so.) So who, where is this list and evidence? I've been waiting for it since Appopin went off on a tantrum about AMD and being cut off from review samples.

 

[blackened23]

I think it's likely that most graphics card purchasers don't even read forums. Or speculation sites or whatever. They might ask a friend or read a review site or shop at a store, though.

My memories of 2009 are a bit foggy, but apparently the me of a few years ago was unimpressed by the rumors/speculations surrounding Fermi, and I bought a HD 5850 at launch for about $250. I gave little weight to forums and much more weight to reviews, perf/watt, perf/price, etc.

Prior to that, I had a HD 4670 which I bought on sale with some misgivings, since all my discrete cards previously had been NVidia or 3DFX. But the HD 4670 driver was fine, and it killed any "AMD has bad drivers" fears for me, which gave me confidence to buy the HD 5850.

So if AMD and NVidia are reading this: spend less money on marketing and more money on improving software/hardware, please.

Here's my opinion, I think a lot of companies do this sort of thing but probably go for news headlines instead of trolling forums. Having a news headline on something like anandtech, even if its a rumor, is a huge thing. Because a LOT of readers will see it, even though they don't necessarily view the forums.

 

[ronnn]

I wish apoppin had given us names of the viral marketers, with some proof. As it stands it just looks like a nvidia pr virus that carriers spread to all forums.

This is what we can expect until the company with the slow card releases something. After that we can expect endless magnified images to show who's cheating.

 

[railven]

I wish apoppin had given us names of the viral marketers, with some proof. As it stands it just looks like a nvidia pr virus that carriers spread to all forums.

This is what we can expect until the company with the slow card releases something. After that we can expect endless magnified images to show who's cheating.

Agree.

It's the circle of liiiiiffeeeee!!!

EDIT:

Just saw him write this:

Yep. Same stealth marketing. Same method of disruption and tactics. And the same poster is exposing it. Ironic?

I personally don't recall Appopin (mark) when I read about the AEG scandal, from what I recall the Consumerist brought it to public attention. If this is how he exposed AEG - LOL. He just flung accusations left and right until one stuck. That's journalism? Explains the lack of articles. haha.

 

[BFG10K]

I’d love to see the list of names, along with an explanation about how IP addresses were obtained from ATF forums.

 

[badb0y]

I think it would be naive to think that AMD doesn't have viral marketers on various forums but I don't think we should single anyone out and accuse them unless we have proof against them.

There are people on these forums that are very passionate about the company they prefer but I wouldn't go as far to say that they are paid marketeers and I would definitely not go on a public witch hunt over it. All this is really getting childish.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Does anyone here actually believe AMD is actively engaging in stealth marketing? I don't see it. You can fairly easily figure out the patterns and style of these posters, not that hard IMO. There are certainly a few people here that are for lack of a better word, militant, but I see that as fanaticism, not some clandestine operation by AMD (or Nvidia). I'll say this, if AMD is involved in some type of stealthy marketing push, they are not very good at it.

I still don't get the purpose of this thread, it only serves to stir a hornets nest and brings down the forum in general. Much more innocuous threads have been locked in the past.

 

[railven]

i don't care what goes on at AT's VC&G forum any more. It's all useless angry drama over there and they are badly divided and there is no cure for the stealth marketing there. i care about ABT. Let's ignore them and instead concentrate on making ABT the best forum for tech discussions.

Let's see how close he sticks to his word. $5 he starts pulling posts from here again to feed his article.

Looking over his regulars, he has about 5 constant posters and 4 of which are gun-ho nVida rah-rah-raaah!

Mission accomplished Appopin, you have "the best forum for tech discussions." How about you now write them articles, almost 2 months now and still no tri-crossfire article you said "due shortly." If 2 months is due shortly, than this AMD shill article is going to take about 3 years to finish.

 

[AdamK47]

I really don't understand why you guys care more about this superfluous stuff rather than the actual hardware. It's obnoxious.

 

[railven]

I really don't understand why you guys care more about this superfluous stuff rather than the actual hardware. It's obnoxious.

Last time I checked there are countless other threads focusing on the hardware, how about the one based on the recent Anandtech article?

Why waste your time here outside of knocking the posters?

 

[blastingcap]

Here's my opinion, I think a lot of companies do this sort of thing but probably go for news headlines instead of trolling forums. Having a news headline on something like anandtech, even if its a rumor, is a huge thing. Because a LOT of readers will see it, even though they don't necessarily view the forums.

Exactly, why mess around with forums when it's probably cheaper, easier, and more effective to intentionally leak info and such? You would probably also have a less chance of getting caught, and even if you did get caught for intentionally leaking info to tech sites, that doesn't have the same negative connotation.

 

[AdamK47]

Last time I checked there are countless other threads focusing on the hardware, how about the one based on the recent Anandtech article?

Why waste your time here outside of knocking the posters?

Yes, lets get back to attacking people for pointless reasons.

 

[railven]

Yes, lets get back to attacking people for pointless reasons.

As long as we have your blessings

 

[railven]

Exactly, why mess around with forums when it's probably cheaper, easier, and more effective to intentionally leak info and such? You would probably also have a less chance of getting caught, and even if you did get caught for intentionally leaking info to tech sites, that doesn't have the same negative connotation.

He posted this link and told me to read it carefully, not directly me of course:

http://blogs.amd.com/corporate/2009...k-bull’s-eyes-or-3-million-viral-video-views/

Sorry, but I don't see the connection of attempting to make videos go viral with planting marketers in forums. Maybe that was step 2, but in this "evidence" link - I only see videos.

I'd personally prefer the leaks and the rumors offer empty allegations, but hey he opened this can - I'd hope he can eat what's inside.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Wait a second, Rollo has joined the charge over there? That tells me all I need to know about the validity of these claims. BTW, sorry if I missed it, but is this true?

Idontcare, the ATF forum administrator already admitted that some of the posters over there at VC&G get free HW from AMD without disclosing it.

edit - read his response again no need to answer it's clear enough for me.

 

[Red Storm]

I think it's likely that most graphics card purchasers don't even read forums. Or speculation sites or whatever. They might ask a friend or read a review site or shop at a store, though.

For something like the 4670, sure. But for high end cards, you can't even find them in most retail stores. Those buyers are most definitely checking out online reviews and forums.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I will say that this is certainly not true at all:

I always felt the FanATIcs did a great job of getting themselves noticed without help from anyone else, and the anandtech video forum is the laughing stock of the internet.

This forum is many things, but a laughing stock it is not, and one of the best sources of discussion and information anywhere.

 

[blastingcap]

For something like the 4670, sure. But for high end cards, you can't even find them in most retail stores. Those buyers are most definitely checking out online reviews and forums.

I meant for both mid and high cards. Actually for mid they might just check a box or something at dell.com and not even have much of a choice. I never forget one of the shocking tidbits that arose from the BFG bankruptcy about how they sold 10 times more power supplies at Best Buy than they did Newegg. And BFG was not a bottomfeeder PSU company, either, those were higher-end units.

As for high end stuff in particular: you'd be surprised. If all rich people spent so much time on forums and stuff, there would be a lot fewer Alienware-like companies. Some people just want "the best" and throw money at whoever has highest performance. They don't spend much time if any in forums. That's why we see such big premiums on halo cards. You see this going on with more than just PC components, too... like cameras or even HDTVs and cars, which cost a LOT more than graphics cards. Lots of people do rudimentary research for cars, like reading reviews, but actually go into car forums to talk shop? Eh... probably not. Lots of people just want some really high end gear and throw money at the problem, without actually sitting down and comparing stuff carefully, let alone reading reviews or going into forums.

Let me put it to you this way: think of a subject you don't know much about that you have already bought. Maybe a watch or something. How much research did you do? Chances are, either none, or maybe reading a few Amazon reviews, or if you were really diligent, reading Consumer Reports or a trade magazine review or something. I bet you didn't go into a technical forum online. If you did, congratulations, you should be like, a tax accountant or something.

The people at this forum are self-selecting. Remember that. Many gamers can't even be bothered to buy a video card at all; they have long since moved to consoles.

I will say that this is certainly not true at all:

This forum is many things, but a laughing stock it is not, and one of the best sources of discussion and information anywhere.

I can think of a laughingstock forum, that begins with an A.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I can think of a laughingstock forum, that begins with an A.

Have you actually tried to read that thread? It is an absolute train wreck, how can anyone take that site seriously? They are making the X-Files look like the indisputable truth.