America: Freedom to Fascism

[manowar821]

Here is the movie
It's an hour and 9 minutes long.

I need to try this... I know there are a number of people here who would recoil at the very thought of giving this video a moment of their attention. Honestly, I don't understand why.

The entirety of the movie is well researched, articulated, and most of all, down to earth.

I for one, agree with what Aaron Russo is trying to say. I always have.

Here is a list of things I will be doing or not doing. I had already planned to do these things, before finding this video a couple weeks ago.

~I am going to continue in the act of not paying my federal income tax, come death or high water. I'm sure after I die, they'll try to tax and rob my corpse and family, like they've done to others.

~I'm going to burn my Real ID card in 2008, and then laugh in the face of anyone who tells me I must have one.

~I'm going to rabidly fight off any "doctors" who attempt to implant an RFID chip into myself, or anyone I personally care for. I'll show you where you can stick that needle.


Now what about you?

 

[sandorski]

Hope they got Internet in prison.

 

[manowar821]

Which one were you, out of curiosity? The one who said I should get out, or the one who "saw the movie" and didn't agree...?

Because it sounds like you haven't seen it, to be totally honest.

 

[sandorski]

saw the movie, didn't agree

The guy makes some false assumptions about the Law. The Courts have already ruled legitimizing Income Taxes and basically negating the guys argument. Don't believe everything you see.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Here is the movie
It's an hour and 9 minutes long.

I need to try this... I know there are a number of people here who would recoil at the very thought of giving this video a moment of their attention. Honestly, I don't understand why.

The entirety of the movie is well researched, articulated, and most of all, down to earth.

I for one, agree with what Aaron Russo is trying to say. I always have.

Here is a list of things I will be doing or not doing. I had already planned to do these things, before finding this video a couple weeks ago.

~I am going to continue in the act of not paying my federal income tax, come death or high water. I'm sure after I die, they'll try to tax and rob my corpse and family, like they've done to others.

~I'm going to burn my Real ID card in 2008, and then laugh in the face of anyone who tells me I must have one.

~I'm going to rabidly fight off any "doctors" who attempt to implant an RFID chip into myself, or anyone I personally care for. I'll show you where you can stick that needle.


Now what about you?

LOL...yeah, you do all that and let us know how that works out for you.

 

[jrenz]

I am going to continue in the act of not paying my federal income tax, come death or high water.

Most kids your age don't pay income tax.

 

[manowar821]

Kids, you mean 22? God I love all of these immature attacks and scoffing.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: manowar821
Here is the movie
It's an hour and 9 minutes long.

I need to try this... I know there are a number of people here who would recoil at the very thought of giving this video a moment of their attention. Honestly, I don't understand why.

The entirety of the movie is well researched, articulated, and most of all, down to earth.

I for one, agree with what Aaron Russo is trying to say. I always have.

Here is a list of things I will be doing or not doing. I had already planned to do these things, before finding this video a couple weeks ago.

~I am going to continue in the act of not paying my federal income tax, come death or high water. I'm sure after I die, they'll try to tax and rob my corpse and family, like they've done to others.

~I'm going to burn my Real ID card in 2008, and then laugh in the face of anyone who tells me I must have one.

~I'm going to rabidly fight off any "doctors" who attempt to implant an RFID chip into myself, or anyone I personally care for. I'll show you where you can stick that needle.


Now what about you?

LOL...yeah, you do all that and let us know how that works out for you.

Great, so far.

 

[blackllotus]

"I have not seen it, but I will watch it when I have an hour to spare"

I do, however, have one thing to say before I watch it. I could care less about whether or not the Constitution provides for an income tax because I think one is necessary.

 

[THUGSROOK]

i agree.

altho the not paying taxes part could be a serious problem unless at least half the country stopped paying.
then again Ron Paul would solve that problem for us (along with a lot of others too)

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Kids, you mean 22? God I love all of these immature attacks and scoffing.

Some people grow older without growing up.

 

[dyn2nvu]

The movie is boring after 15-20 minutes. Every time I start watching, I get bored and stop.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: manowar821
Here is the movie
It's an hour and 9 minutes long.

I need to try this... I know there are a number of people here who would recoil at the very thought of giving this video a moment of their attention. Honestly, I don't understand why.

The entirety of the movie is well researched, articulated, and most of all, down to earth.

I for one, agree with what Aaron Russo is trying to say. I always have.

Here is a list of things I will be doing or not doing. I had already planned to do these things, before finding this video a couple weeks ago.

~I am going to continue in the act of not paying my federal income tax, come death or high water. I'm sure after I die, they'll try to tax and rob my corpse and family, like they've done to others.

~I'm going to burn my Real ID card in 2008, and then laugh in the face of anyone who tells me I must have one.

~I'm going to rabidly fight off any "doctors" who attempt to implant an RFID chip into myself, or anyone I personally care for. I'll show you where you can stick that needle.


Now what about you?

LOL...yeah, you do all that and let us know how that works out for you.

Great, so far.

Well there is only 2 ways to get out of paying income tax:

1- you don't work and have no income which means either:
a- you refuse to work
b- You don't need to work because you are mooching off someone else
c- You are underage and therefore are not subject to income tax laws (yet)
d- You have rich family members that are supporting you because they know it is the
only way you will survive in the real world.

2- You work, you earn your own $$ under the table through legal and/or illegal means and
your income goes unreported.

Either way you look at it you are a blight to someone....the person or persons directly supporting you, or the rest of us who are hard working tax payers.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: manowar821
Kids, you mean 22? God I love all of these immature attacks and scoffing.

Some people grow older without growing up.

Again, with the insults. Are you going to ever post anything worth reading, or should I just ignore your name, from now on?

You can prod all you like, but my post had no ill intention, nor did I openly attack anyone.

What exactly are you trying to do, here? Troll?

Don't waste my time.

 

[GeezerMan]

It's very good. The best part is the interview with the former IRS chief who says that Supreme Court rulings don't apply to the tax courts. Say what? They lie, and they know they are lying. Bottom line: The 16th Amendment did not allow the Federal Government to levy a new tax, as ruled upon by the Supreme Court, thus there is no Constitutional basis for the income tax.
So, if they want an income tax, change the constitution, or let the government subsist solely on tariffs, tonnages and excises as the founders intended

 

[bdude]

Some tax protesters, conspiracy investigators, and others opposed to income taxes cite what they contend is evidence that the Sixteenth Amendment was never "properly ratified." One such argument is that because the legislatures of various states passed resolutions of ratification with different capitalization, spelling of words, or punctuation marks (e.g. semi-colons instead of commas) from the text proposed by Congress, those states' ratifications were invalid. A related argument is that various states illegally violated procedural requirements of their constitutions when passing their ratification resolutions. Another argument made by some tax protesters regards Ohio, one of the states listed as ratifying the amendment. They contend that because Congress did not pass an official proclamation recognizing Ohio's date of admission (1803) to statehood until 1953 (see Ohio Constitution), Ohio was not a state until 1953 (and, therefore, could not have ratified the Sixteenth Amendment). These and similar arguments have been universally rejected by the courts.[19]

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: manowar821
Kids, you mean 22? God I love all of these immature attacks and scoffing.

Some people grow older without growing up.

Again, with the insults. Are you going to ever post anything worth reading, or should I just ignore your name, from now on?

You can prod all you like, but my post had no ill intention, nor did I openly attack anyone.

What exactly are you trying to do, here? Troll?

Don't waste my time.

It's hard to take idiots like you seriously when you believe these well-known myths just because some nut-job makes a long-winded, factually dishonest internet movie. 5 minutes on Google can give you 30 different sources which have well-documented refutements of every point brought up supporting your refusal to pay taxes.

If you are not paying taxes right now, it's either because you don't make any money, or you're an idiot. I was just trying to spare your feelings by not coming right out and saying that. But yeah, you're an idiot. That better?

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: manowar821
Kids, you mean 22? God I love all of these immature attacks and scoffing.

Some people grow older without growing up.

Again, with the insults. Are you going to ever post anything worth reading, or should I just ignore your name, from now on?

You can prod all you like, but my post had no ill intention, nor did I openly attack anyone.

What exactly are you trying to do, here? Troll?

Don't waste my time.

It's hard to take idiots like you seriously when you believe these well-known myths just because some nut-job makes a long-winded, factually dishonest internet movie. 5 minutes on Google can give you 30 different sources which have well-documented refutements of every point brought up supporting your refusal to pay taxes.

If you are not paying taxes right now, it's either because you don't make any money, or you're an idiot. I was just trying to spare your feelings by not coming right out and saying that. But yeah, you're an idiot. That better?

You're just a sweetheart, aren't ya? Model citizen, too. A real patriot, I tell you.

You're probably just pissed off because you never realized the lack of a law that has cost you thousands of dollars since you've started paying taxes like a good little sheep.

For that, I pity you. You also never answered my question. "Have you seen this movie?"

It really doesn't matter, though, does it? You're going to believe whatever makes you feel comfortable, whatever your stupid little pea brain needs to believe to feel safe.

I tried that 5 minutes of google thing. Hell, I've been trying the 3 week google thing since I watched it. Believe you me, I want there to be a real reason as to why I've given money to them for the past years. However, the fact that I could go to jail for the "crime" of not paying a federal income tax is not a good enough reason to pay it. That would be giving into fear and intimidation.

I have not found a single credible source stating there is any kind of reason why we have to pay a federal income tax. If you had watched the movie, you would've actually researched this, too. This is just the tip of the iceberg, it's not really about the tax money, despite the fact that it's quite disgusting in itself. Noooo, I'm sorry. It's much worse.

I don't mind having people disagree, that's the F-ing reason why I brought this whole thing up, so we can ARGUE about it. But you're not even doing that. You're just shutting the entire thing out, and resorting to insults. You're a like a god-damned politician. Nothing is in that head of yours except for hate and fear. Maybe an understanding of whatever field you work in, computers or auto mechanics. But aside from that? Nothing.

Enjoy your blind patriotism (See: Nationalism). You're blind faith is a disease.

Now kindly, get the hell out, unless you're going to make your useful.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
It's very good. The best part is the interview with the former IRS chief who says that Supreme Court rulings don't apply to the tax courts. Say what? They lie, and they know they are lying. Bottom line: The 16th Amendment did not allow the Federal Government to levy a new tax, as ruled upon by the Supreme Court, thus there is no Constitutional basis for the income tax.
So, if they want an income tax, change the constitution, or let the government subsist solely on tariffs, tonnages and excises as the founders intended

You need to reread EXACTLY what the Supreme Court said about the 16th Amendment. Yes, it did rule that the 16th Amendment gave Congress no new rights to levy taxes but that was because Congress already had the right to levy an income tax. The 16th Amendment dealt with apportionment.

If the movie is stating that income taxes are unconstitutional, I really wonder how many other points it makes that are horribly false.

Also, manowar, if you think you don't have to pay income taxes, you're going to be sadly mistaken. I believe the law that set up the IRS as a federal agency also allowed them to legally collect income tax. I've had this argument with another loony that didn't want to pay his taxes and showed him how he was horribly wrong (I don't think he listened though).

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
It's very good. The best part is the interview with the former IRS chief who says that Supreme Court rulings don't apply to the tax courts. Say what? They lie, and they know they are lying. Bottom line: The 16th Amendment did not allow the Federal Government to levy a new tax, as ruled upon by the Supreme Court, thus there is no Constitutional basis for the income tax.
So, if they want an income tax, change the constitution, or let the government subsist solely on tariffs, tonnages and excises as the founders intended

You need to reread EXACTLY what the Supreme Court said about the 16th Amendment. Yes, it did rule that the 16th Amendment gave Congress no new rights to levy taxes but that was because Congress already had the right to levy an income tax. The 16th Amendment dealt with apportionment.

If the movie is stating that income taxes are unconstitutional, I really wonder how many other points it makes that are horribly false.

Also, manowar, if you think you don't have to pay income taxes, you're going to be sadly mistaken. I believe the law that set up the IRS as a federal agency also allowed them to legally collect income tax. I've had this argument with another loony that didn't want to pay his taxes and showed him how he was horribly wrong (I don't think he listened though).

You people really need to stop with the insults. Minus 10 respect points, for you.

You must ask yourself why no officials have SAID there is a law requiring it. They dodge the question every time.

Also, the bank that we pay our "federal" income tax to isn't a federal institution. It's a privately owned bank, which I have no obligation to give any money to.

They need to prove there is a law. Which no-one has. Even if they somehow fabricate a law, why would it be in my best interest to give them my money? They don't do anything useful with it. It isn't helping anyone, only the few who get rich off of it.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
It's very good. The best part is the interview with the former IRS chief who says that Supreme Court rulings don't apply to the tax courts. Say what? They lie, and they know they are lying. Bottom line: The 16th Amendment did not allow the Federal Government to levy a new tax, as ruled upon by the Supreme Court, thus there is no Constitutional basis for the income tax.
So, if they want an income tax, change the constitution, or let the government subsist solely on tariffs, tonnages and excises as the founders intended

You need to reread EXACTLY what the Supreme Court said about the 16th Amendment. Yes, it did rule that the 16th Amendment gave Congress no new rights to levy taxes but that was because Congress already had the right to levy an income tax. The 16th Amendment dealt with apportionment.

If the movie is stating that income taxes are unconstitutional, I really wonder how many other points it makes that are horribly false.

Also, manowar, if you think you don't have to pay income taxes, you're going to be sadly mistaken. I believe the law that set up the IRS as a federal agency also allowed them to legally collect income tax. I've had this argument with another loony that didn't want to pay his taxes and showed him how he was horribly wrong (I don't think he listened though).

You people really need to stop with the insults. Minus 10 respect points, for you.

You must ask yourself why no officials have SAID there is a law requiring it. They dodge the question every time.

Also, the bank that we pay our "federal" income tax to isn't a federal institution. It's a privately owned bank, which I have no obligation to give any money to.

They need to prove there is a law. Which no-one has. Even if they somehow fabricate a law, why would it be in my best interest to give them my money? They don't do anything useful with it. It isn't helping anyone, only the few who get rich off of it.

The Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is the law that allows the IRS to collect taxes from income.

Here's a Wiki article that does a nice job of countering any argument you probably have.

We don't pay our income tax to a bank. The IRS is a federal agency operating under the federal government. If you are talking about the Federal Reserve, then you are still wrong because it is only partially a private institution.

Do yourself and all of us a favor: Pay your taxes.

 

[spittledip]

I'll watch it tomorrow. I already figured that there will come a time when the govt will require chip implants that double as ID and credit.

edit: this guy produced Trading Places? I like that movie

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: spittledip
I'll watch it tomorrow. I already figured that there will come a time when the govt will require chip implants that double as ID and credit.

edit: this guy produced Trading Places? I like that movie

I agree that they'd do it someday, but I don't believe it's actually necessary.

And yes. :laugh:

 

[spittledip]

I just watched it. I have to say that b/c I have little knowledge of the tax and monetary system (although i was aware that our paper money was not based on anything any more), it is hard for me to make a judgment regarding the legality of income tax. For now, I will continue paying b/c I do not see income tax as the real threat at this point. The real threat is something that has been made public for many years now: RFID chips in people and the ID cards. This is the dangerous stuff by far. Sure, income tax and the system behind it might have paved the way for chipping people to be possible, but it is too little too late for that anyway. I think if people make a stand, it should be against chipping rather than against income tax. Income tax can be a legitimate thing as it can be used for programs. This video says it is not being used for anythign but to make the banks richer or something like that..? If that is the case, then something should be done. However, again, it is more serious for the govt to have bodily control and monitoring of us than for them to take our money. So, I say choose your priorities. You can fight against something that is iffy (i.e. conspiracy-theory-ish), or fight against something that the govt and independent companies have been talking about for several years now. All I nkow is it is going to get scary. The question is when? May 2008 for ID cards... is this true? Need to research that one more.

edit: also, I don't know how credible te guy making this video is. These things are complicated. Media sux, huh? hard to know what to believe.

 

[Arcex]

Regardless of whether or not the government is legally allowed to collect an income tax it is neccesary to run a government of this size, I don't see that changing. My issue is that the government is incredible inefficient and if we went through it and got it running halfway decently we wouldn't need far less money to operate it at all levels and we could all enjoy much less taxes. that of course will never happen because the reason it is so inefficient is so the powers that be can skim money all over the place so they of course won't let anything happen to their cash cow.

Also, I'm a nerd, I love computers and technology. There is no way in hell I'm going to let them put a chip in me, it's already been demonstrated how that technology can be used to track people. And yes, maybe I am paranoid, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong...