America: Freedom to Fascism

[piasabird]

I dont have time to watch a 1 hour + Propaganda Film.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I dont have time to watch a 1 hour + Propaganda Film.

Thanks for letting us know :roll:

 

[TheAdvocate]

manowar821:

enjoy your time in fed PMITA prison. bring lube.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: piasabird
I dont have time to watch a 1 hour + Propaganda Film.

Thanks for letting us know :roll:

He's right though.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
It's very good. The best part is the interview with the former IRS chief who says that Supreme Court rulings don't apply to the tax courts. Say what? They lie, and they know they are lying. Bottom line: The 16th Amendment did not allow the Federal Government to levy a new tax, as ruled upon by the Supreme Court, thus there is no Constitutional basis for the income tax.
So, if they want an income tax, change the constitution, or let the government subsist solely on tariffs, tonnages and excises as the founders intended

You need to reread EXACTLY what the Supreme Court said about the 16th Amendment. Yes, it did rule that the 16th Amendment gave Congress no new rights to levy taxes but that was because Congress already had the right to levy an income tax. The 16th Amendment dealt with apportionment.

If the movie is stating that income taxes are unconstitutional, I really wonder how many other points it makes that are horribly false.

Also, manowar, if you think you don't have to pay income taxes, you're going to be sadly mistaken. I believe the law that set up the IRS as a federal agency also allowed them to legally collect income tax. I've had this argument with another loony that didn't want to pay his taxes and showed him how he was horribly wrong (I don't think he listened though).

You people really need to stop with the insults. Minus 10 respect points, for you.

You must ask yourself why no officials have SAID there is a law requiring it. They dodge the question every time.

Also, the bank that we pay our "federal" income tax to isn't a federal institution. It's a privately owned bank, which I have no obligation to give any money to.

They need to prove there is a law. Which no-one has. Even if they somehow fabricate a law, why would it be in my best interest to give them my money? They don't do anything useful with it. It isn't helping anyone, only the few who get rich off of it.

Are you aware that the IRS can just levy your wages? If they catch up with you of course.

They just send a letter to your employer and they fill out this little chart thing and just take it out of your paycheck.

Even if you don't work they'll find something to piggy back it on to, and if not FPMITAP.

I'm not debating on whether they are right to tax you or not, just stating what will happen.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
It's very good. The best part is the interview with the former IRS chief who says that Supreme Court rulings don't apply to the tax courts. Say what? They lie, and they know they are lying. Bottom line: The 16th Amendment did not allow the Federal Government to levy a new tax, as ruled upon by the Supreme Court, thus there is no Constitutional basis for the income tax.
So, if they want an income tax, change the constitution, or let the government subsist solely on tariffs, tonnages and excises as the founders intended

You need to reread EXACTLY what the Supreme Court said about the 16th Amendment. Yes, it did rule that the 16th Amendment gave Congress no new rights to levy taxes but that was because Congress already had the right to levy an income tax. The 16th Amendment dealt with apportionment.

If the movie is stating that income taxes are unconstitutional, I really wonder how many other points it makes that are horribly false.

Also, manowar, if you think you don't have to pay income taxes, you're going to be sadly mistaken. I believe the law that set up the IRS as a federal agency also allowed them to legally collect income tax. I've had this argument with another loony that didn't want to pay his taxes and showed him how he was horribly wrong (I don't think he listened though).

You people really need to stop with the insults. Minus 10 respect points, for you.

You must ask yourself why no officials have SAID there is a law requiring it. They dodge the question every time.

Also, the bank that we pay our "federal" income tax to isn't a federal institution. It's a privately owned bank, which I have no obligation to give any money to.

They need to prove there is a law. Which no-one has. Even if they somehow fabricate a law, why would it be in my best interest to give them my money? They don't do anything useful with it. It isn't helping anyone, only the few who get rich off of it.

Are you aware that the IRS can just levy your wages? If they catch up with you of course.

They just send a letter to your employer and they fill out this little chart thing and just take it out of your paycheck.

Even if you don't work they'll find something to piggy back it on to, and if not FPMITAP.

I'm not debating on whether they are right to tax you or not, just stating what will happen.

well crap. I've actually never heard of that before.

 

[Wheezer]

Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe w should do away with income tax and raise sales taxes.

Why? Well everyone need to purchase things...but not everyone reports their income (local crack dealer for instance)

while you and I are getting double whammied by income tax AND sales tax and , the local crack dealer only gets dinged once when he buys all those new toys with cash, and even then in some cases since he pays with cash, the numbers get fudged.

So remove the income tax and raise the sales tax so that EVERYONE has to pay.

 

[Craig234]

A fair income tax is an excellent way for the public to pay for the cost of government. It's 'progressive', i.e., charges the wealthy a higher percent.

The government has the ability to do it - without getting into the debate, the fact is, they're doing it and there are people who did not pay and are now in jail. The Supreme Court has not accepted their appeals to let them free because they're right; they refuse the appeals and leave them in jail. What do you say to those facts, manowar?

A sales tax is a terrible way to tax much. Money is like a river for most people - comes in, goes out - and like a lake for the wealthy, as they sit and own and grow, spending little.

Sales taxes hit the poorer far harder than the wealthy. It's the last thing we need, unless we want to return to feudalism even faster.

What we need are fewer threads about pointless theories, and more about real education about why the public has been so misled into voting against its own interest.

Liberal policies are both the way to fix the situation, and a 'dirty word' because of the propaganda.

And let's get one thing straight - everyone wants 'smaller government' in areas; liberals are happy to cut the big defense corruption and other crony spending and waste.

Liberals are also happy to cut the payment of hundreds of billions in interest on debt, by cutting the debt, by taxing enough to pay the bills, not adding to the credit card.

'Fiscal responsibility' is now a liberal-only policy, until if and when the republicans get rid of the crooks who run the party since Reagan (funny that Nixon isn't in the 'crook' list).

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe w should do away with income tax and raise sales taxes.

Why? Well everyone need to purchase things...but not everyone reports their income (local crack dealer for instance)

while you and I are getting double whammied by income tax AND sales tax and , the local crack dealer only gets dinged once when he buys all those new toys with cash, and even then in some cases since he pays with cash, the numbers get fudged.

So remove the income tax and raise the sales tax so that EVERYONE has to pay.

Are you suggesting we base our entire tax system off of the hypothetical behavior of a tiny fraction of society?

As others have suggested, a sales tax is extremely regressive, resulting in a much higher tax rate for the poor than the wealthy...how "fair" does that sound?

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe w should do away with income tax and raise sales taxes.

Why? Well everyone need to purchase things...but not everyone reports their income (local crack dealer for instance)

while you and I are getting double whammied by income tax AND sales tax and , the local crack dealer only gets dinged once when he buys all those new toys with cash, and even then in some cases since he pays with cash, the numbers get fudged.

So remove the income tax and raise the sales tax so that EVERYONE has to pay.

Are you suggesting we base our entire tax system off of the hypothetical behavior of a tiny fraction of society?

As others have suggested, a sales tax is extremely regressive, resulting in a much higher tax rate for the poor than the wealthy...how "fair" does that sound?

actually that"small" portion of the population is very large.

You don't have to deal drugs to get away with not paying income tax.

People in all sorts of legal positions such as constriction and just about any repair service also are paid under the table on many occasions.

Take the construction and home improvement trade alone....there are TONS of people across the US doing "side jobs" in this area that are not paying taxes of a vast amount of work they do.

Auto repair is another....shop does repair work on your car that normally costs 2500 but they will drop 700 if you can pay in cash....income tax free on their end.

So when you take the time to actually think about how much money is lost due to an inability by the government to collect income tax on those individuals...that is a significant amount wouldn't you say?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe w should do away with income tax and raise sales taxes.

Why? Well everyone need to purchase things...but not everyone reports their income (local crack dealer for instance)

while you and I are getting double whammied by income tax AND sales tax and , the local crack dealer only gets dinged once when he buys all those new toys with cash, and even then in some cases since he pays with cash, the numbers get fudged.

So remove the income tax and raise the sales tax so that EVERYONE has to pay.

Are you suggesting we base our entire tax system off of the hypothetical behavior of a tiny fraction of society?

As others have suggested, a sales tax is extremely regressive, resulting in a much higher tax rate for the poor than the wealthy...how "fair" does that sound?

actually that"small" portion of the population is very large.

You don't have to deal drugs to get away with not paying income tax.

People in all sorts of legal positions such as constriction and just about any repair service also are paid under the table on many occasions.

Take the construction and home improvement trade alone....there are TONS of people across the US doing "side jobs" in this area that are not paying taxes of a vast amount of work they do.

Auto repair is another....shop does repair work on your car that normally costs 2500 but they will drop 700 if you can pay in cash....income tax free on their end.

So when you take the time to actually think about how much money is lost due to an inability by the government to collect income tax on those individuals...that is a significant amount wouldn't you say?

Well you were talking about drug dealers in particular, but I'll agree that under an income tax system there are some people who get away without paying their fair share. But I think trashing the income tax is hardly an ideal solution...while there will of course be gains, I think the losses will be more significant, and it will introduce the problem of shifting the tax burden down the economic ladder.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe w should do away with income tax and raise sales taxes.

Why? Well everyone need to purchase things...but not everyone reports their income (local crack dealer for instance)

while you and I are getting double whammied by income tax AND sales tax and , the local crack dealer only gets dinged once when he buys all those new toys with cash, and even then in some cases since he pays with cash, the numbers get fudged.

So remove the income tax and raise the sales tax so that EVERYONE has to pay.

Not everybody will pay their fair share. How about those who make tens of millions of dollars. They aren't going to spend it so it will all be tax free.

 

[dababus]

Just found out that Aaron Russo died today . RIP Aaron, you will be missed.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: dababus
Just found out that Aaron Russo died today . RIP Aaron, you will be missed.

No kidding...? Do you have a link, or know how it happened?

 

[dababus]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: dababus
Just found out that Aaron Russo died today . RIP Aaron, you will be missed.

No kidding...? Do you have a link, or know how it happened?

He died of cancer this morning.

Link

 

[StageLeft]

Honestly, I don't understand why.

Because that is a long time to watch a movie. I hit up anandtech for short bursts, kind of like hitting myself and then backing away before blood letting begins.

Also, based on your impressions and, no offense, but talk of RFID chips and then old faithful not paying taxes is simply whacky, so I don't need to spend 69 minutes watching any movie that addresses reasons why I should not pay taxes. Am I a good little son of Uncle Sam for that? Maybe, but at the end of the day I get to stay out of trouble and spend time with my kids instead of in court, so it's a battle won.

Every country has taxes (maybe not somalia...?) and they are necessary for certain things, even if one is a believer in small gov. If I don't like them in the US, since I'm not a citizen, I can get the f*************ck out; it's part of the deal to stay here!

 

[morkinva]

originally posted by smallmind

The Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is the law that allows the IRS to collect taxes from income.

Here's a Wiki article that does a nice job of countering any argument you probably have.

We don't pay our income tax to a bank. The IRS is a federal agency operating under the federal government. If you are talking about the Federal Reserve, then you are still wrong because it is only partially a private institution.

Do yourself and all of us a favor: Pay your taxes.

Don't pay your taxes? This guy didn't and won in court

Got it all figured out have you?

R.I.P. Aaron Russo

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: assmunch

originally posted by HombrePequeno

The Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is the law that allows the IRS to collect taxes from income.

Here's a Wiki article that does a nice job of countering any argument you probably have.

We don't pay our income tax to a bank. The IRS is a federal agency operating under the federal government. If you are talking about the Federal Reserve, then you are still wrong because it is only partially a private institution.

Do yourself and all of us a favor: Pay your taxes.

Don't pay your taxes? This guy didn't and won in court

Got it all figured out have you?

R.I.P. Aaron Russo

That's an exception rather than the rule.

 

[Trell]

Originally posted by: Craig234
A sales tax is a terrible way to tax much. Money is like a river for most people - comes in, goes out - and like a lake for the wealthy, as they sit and own and grow, spending little.

Sales taxes hit the poorer far harder than the wealthy. It's the last thing we need, unless we want to return to feudalism even faster.

I see this arguement all the time, and I don't think that it is correct. Necessities such as food and clothing are NOT taxed and would not be taxed still. People with low incomes are spending a much higher % of their incomes on necessities compared to people with alot of money, this should result in the tax "rate" still being higher for people who rich people (since they buy a much much much larger amount of "luxury" items).

 

[Triumph]

I dont' really understand how one goes about not paying taxes, if one has a job? I can see how you don't pay some tax, by not reporting some incomes. But you aren't going to get away with it forever. They will get your money or you will buy yourself jail time with all of that money you saved. If you think otherwise, you're fooling yourself. Which is ok, because you're also only hurting yourself. So if you don't want to pay taxes, more power to ya!

 

[Orignal Earl]

What were we talking about again?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Trell

Originally posted by: Craig234
A sales tax is a terrible way to tax much. Money is like a river for most people - comes in, goes out - and like a lake for the wealthy, as they sit and own and grow, spending little.

Sales taxes hit the poorer far harder than the wealthy. It's the last thing we need, unless we want to return to feudalism even faster.

I see this arguement all the time, and I don't think that it is correct. Necessities such as food and clothing are NOT taxed and would not be taxed still. People with low incomes are spending a much higher % of their incomes on necessities compared to people with alot of money, this should result in the tax "rate" still being higher for people who rich people (since they buy a much much much larger amount of "luxury" items).

That will also ensure that only the top segment of the population can afford such things as a car or owning their own house, imagine the taxes if ALL taxes were sales taxes and the combined amount would be put on such things.

You need a mower, that will be $16 000, $500 to buy it and $15 500 in taxes.

 

[burr4392]

I'm lucky in that I have not paid income tax for the last two year. Being exempt is a nice thing. Wish everyone was.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
What were we talking about again?

I was talking about lawn mowers and stuff.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
What were we talking about again?

I was talking about lawn mowers and stuff.

John Deere

Been there, mowed that