"America is not the greatest country in the world anymore"

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m8d

Senior member
Nov 5, 2012
635
1,022
136
this.

there is no objective measure for "greatest". sure, america has an exceptional military, economy, etc. but it's not like it's #1 in everything good and dead last in everything bad. america loves wars. america loves bombing or otherwise oppressing non-white people through political or economic means. america also has amazing healthcare - if you can access it. america has terrible infant and maternal mortality for a "first world" country. america has one of the best post-secondary education systems in the world. america is home to some of the most cutting edge technology companies in the world. for all of america's boisterous claims of free and fair elections, there's one major party that's actively engaged in voter suppression. america is a land of opportunity - if you're lucky. but it also has terrible economic mobility - if you're poor, you're likely to stay that way, and so are your children. america is politically stable (for the moment) - but it's still great at putting people in prison even if the government isn't actively pursuing political opponents (cough cough..war on drugs).

does all this make us the greatest? i can't see how you could argue so. does it make us the worst? i doubt it. but america has flaws, and we as a country need to acknowledge that we can do better.
Take away AmeriKKKa's military and economy, and it would be a third-world failed state.
 

Drach

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2022
1,099
1,741
106
I am from the US.
I have traveled extensively through Europe and have visited 5 American countries above and below the US.
There are countries that I would live in but I still think the US overall is the best even considering it's major flaws.
I currently live in overpriced and overtaxed California after being raised in Houston. I wouldn't live anywhere else unless I was forced to.
 
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nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,585
7,825
136
Um... if you take away any country's economy, they're probably going to be a third-world failed state.
Or to change it up a bit, if you took the US military budget over the past 70 years, cut it in 1/2, and spent the other half on infrastructure and social programs, the US would be a fucking beacon. But instead we have a really awesome weapons program for blowing shit up, and Amtrak.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,819
7,974
136
Why would China need their vaccine to work, if masks already worked?
/s

Because masks are to (mostly) reduce the spread to within 6 feet. So while they help, they do not end the pandemic. Opponents act as if masks fail when they do not live up to false claims of providing immunity. Yet that was never the intention behind them. Problem is poor communication on the issue. Then opponents running wild with misinformation. The sort you find yourself trying to combat.

Misinformation is far more powerful than we ever gave it credit for. If we had known, the creators of the internet may have thought twice when creating a weapon to end our Democracy.
You almost got the spelling of your username correct... almost...
 
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m8d

Senior member
Nov 5, 2012
635
1,022
136
When was AmeriKKKa great? Was it when they nearly killed the off Native Americans and stole their land, or was it during slavery and Jim Crow era? It's also funny white AmeriKKKa loves to tell POC to go back where they came from. Racism is so American that when you protest against it, people think you are protesting against AmeriKKKa.
 

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,833
8,302
136
What's the military spending quotient in the US? I heard IIRC 3%.

Infrastructure... I hear that Russia's railroad system is pretty great and cheap. Don't think you can say the same for America's to say the least. ARE THERE ANY BULLET TRAINS IN AMERICA? I don't know of any. Something like that was/is planned in CA between LA and Bay Area but it seems to be a pipe dream ATM for all I know. Plenty was spent on that.

I'm not saying there are bullet trains in Russia, but their rail passenger train system is, I hear, comprehensive, nationalized, cheap and overall an effective means of getting from point A to point B. And I hear their GNP is less than that of the state of Texas'.

Biden has at least tried to get infrastructure development going, Trump's "work" on that was nil. I don't understand Biden's low rating. I suppose it's the inflation and gas prices and just the sense that there are big problems here. But let's face it, they are not because of what Biden's done or not done. He's 10+ times better than T-balls and the ruinous administration Biden managed to replace in spite of the Republican attempted insurrection in an attempt to thwart due transfer of power on Jan. 6, 2021, a most treasonous episode.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
It's probably hard to understand if you're not from the U.S. but there are many things that make U.S. great. Your individual rights and freedoms ( although many people here want to give those up willingly for some reason), our standard of living, economy, opportunity, etc. Anyone who thinks the U.S. is not so great should question why we have so many people trying to immigrate here. We are the most diverse country in the world and the most accepting to multicultural societies.

You should probably get out more and maybe visit some other countries.

We are diverse but I wouldn’t say accepting. Our history is filled with examples of foreigners not being accepted (from the Chinese, Irish, Italians, Muslims, and currently Mexicans. So maybe you also just need to get outside your bubble.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,833
8,302
136
I know this has been asked a million times in a million different ways, but what metrics define America as being the "greatest," and why are those specific metrics chosen?

It seems like much of America's greatness was built on Smallpox, slavery, foreign wars, racial oppression, etc.
I believe The White House was built by slave labor. For that reason alone, the argument could be made that it should be leveled (could have happened on 9/11!) and rebuilt. I know, tradition, but tradition gets more cred than it deserves.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
I believe The White House was built by slave labor. For that reason alone, the argument could be made that it should be leveled (could have happened on 9/11!) and rebuilt. I know, tradition, but tradition gets more cred than it deserves.


Nah, let's just keep it and pay some apologies and reparations to the families and move on together at last.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
Take away AmeriKKKa's military and economy, and it would be a third-world failed state.


So .... take away two of the main things that have made America successful and it might well have failed instead?

Well you certainly are a freaking rocket-surgeon!
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,063
7,487
136
Um... if you take away any country's economy, they're probably going to be a third-world failed state.

-Yeah take away all the stuff that makes places great, you know peace and a living, and they turn into shit holes! Who would have guessed!

As an American who likes to travel and has done some traveling around Europe/North Africa/India/Central America I strongly agree with the sentiment that the US is definitely not the best in any one category, but is a strong jack of all trades when it comes to livability.

As much as I idealize some other places in the world, at the end of the day there is no where else I would like to stay than the good old U S of A.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,273
8,198
136

Interesting. What's' the source of those numbers?

Others don't claim it so audibly, though. Maybe Malaysians or Turks say it if you prompt them in an opinion poll, but the rest of us don't _hear_ them saying it on a regular basis, as is the case with Americans.

Plus there's a subtle difference between saying your country is "better than others" and saying it's "the greatest". "Greatness" is a specific quality, invoking glory and power and importance, rather than just thinking its a nice place to live.

Surprised that Canadians are so pleased with themselves, though - they've kept that quiet. Maybe it's the effect of watching recent events in their neighbour? Made them count their blessings.

Also there's a lot of 'no data' on that map. There are some countries where I get the impression, judging from people I've known from them, they are more likely to declare that they are the _worst_ country in the world.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,063
7,487
136
Interesting. What's' the source of those numbers?

Others don't claim it so audibly, though. Maybe Malaysians or Turks say it if you prompt them in an opinion poll, but the rest of us don't _hear_ them saying it on a regular basis, as is the case with Americans.

Plus there's a subtle difference between saying your country is "better than others" and saying it's "the greatest". "Greatness" is a specific quality, invoking glory and power and importance, rather than just thinking its a nice place to live.

Surprised that Canadians are so pleased with themselves, though - they've kept that quiet. Maybe it's the effect of watching recent events in their neighbour? Made them count their blessings.

Also there's a lot of 'no data' on that map. There are some countries where I get the impression, judging from people I've known from them, they are more likely to declare that they are the _worst_ country in the world.

-I appreciate Mexicans a bit more every single day. They know their country has gone to shit and aren't even afraid to say it.
 
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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,371
4,625
136
Surprised that Canadians are so pleased with themselves, though - they've kept that quiet. Maybe it's the effect of watching recent events in their neighbour? Made them count their blessings.
No we’re pretty smug. We know we are better than Americans 🤪
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,007
2,277
136
Try getting into America from the southern border as a foreigner. Even as a white European woman.

 
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