American Exceptionalism

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: cwjerome
The differences are getting more galling for non-Americans because suddenly we're the in your face superpower. I can truly understand that attitude... but it doesn't mean America's wrong.

On that end of things, it's probably more of a, "Hey now that the Cold War is over and we don't need the U.S. to have our backs, we don't need to be nice to you anymore! Nyah nyah!"

Yeah, I'll by into that. But there's another aspect.

The older generations were still in a sort of awe of Europe. We kinda half agreed when Harold Macmillan said Britain needed to play Greece to America's Rome. We were admirably sensitive to Europeans national pride, etc, and made every effort to cloak American power in multilateral matters (and make no mistake, cloaking was all it was).

Bottom line is, modern conservatism -and Americans in general- have no major inclination to continue that sort of nonsense. Things change... it's a new world.

I think you would find that most Americans, and most moderate and liberal, and even some wise conservatives, have no desire to go out of our way to act out a blunt and egotistical and often belligerent foriegn policy. There is no benefit to the current bravado of "modern conservatism," only downsides.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Stunt
The key difference between the US and other nations is the "American Dream" which is alive and well even today.

In my eyes, the American Dream represents the limitless opportunities created by a free society.

Individual choices and motivation will determine the lifestyle you lead; what you contribute to society is proportional to what you get out. The American Dream could be not working and living in the bush, could be middle class with a family life, could be busting your hump to get the 6-figure salary. The American Dream is not meant to be riches for everyone but compensation for those who aspire to reach their dreams.

Add this culture and environment to a large population of ex-Europeans (always led high standards of living) and you have a superpower roughly 4 times larger than any other nation in the world. If Ireland had 300million people, it too would be of similar greatness to the US.

Good thoughts. The American Dream is more than just a cliche... it's ingrained in our value system and permeates our culture. Simple ideas like freedom, independence, individualism, opportunity, and the "pursuit of happiness" define this country.

Too many people, these traits ARE America, and they love it. Talk about the US not being special, and frowns appear... That whole city on a hill thing isn't hyperbole.

 

[cwjerome]

It's surprising to me that the poll settled at 16 a bad thing and 8 a good thing. Surprising that there were that many "good".

What I don't understand though, is how 6 people can say there is no American exceptionalism. How can someone say that the US is not clearly different, even unique, in many ways? Any explanations?

 

[CanOWorms]

I think that the US primarily built itself up while Europe primarily built itself on the wealth of others (note that I'm not saying that the US didn't as well). For centuries, Europeans wandered the globe plundering and raping societies, extracting all wealth, bringing death and destruction.

The Europeans still practiced forms of slavery into the mid-20th century. To them, making others work and plundering their wealth was normal. They became lazy and complacent. Only now do some of them realize the situation they are in and are attempting to correct this.

Also, I feel that Americans can discuss their mistakes and history. For example, America generally has little problems discussing its racist past. Europeans still to this day have incredible difficulties talking about their social ills. If you do not talk about it, you cannot correct it. This is extremely clear to me, even on this forum where Europeans express this type of supremacist attitude. They support a sort of supremacy, and questioning anything about themselves would dismantle that belief of supremacy.

 

[LumbergTech]

I think the people who disagree with you, myself included, have a problem with those who think that american power is the most important factor and that we must pour everything into it to continually build it so that we are on top. I do not feel that we must be a superpower to still produce great things for the world. I dont think we need to have some giant group-think nightmare where everyone shares the same positions. And I dont think everyone in America is a conservative as you would like to believe. When it comes to purely economics I can see a little bit of a sense in some of the conservative thought processes but when it comes to social issues i think they are often way off. We are a socialist democracy and despite the fact that you seem to have an axe to grind against socialists, I think that that is a big part of what makes us such a good country. Even though we are extremley weary about how we will meet the needs of the people, hoping to avoid the mistakes of the inefficient outdated policies of the past, we still desperately want to meet those needs.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
The Europeans still practiced forms of slavery into the mid-20th century. To them, making others work and plundering their wealth was normal. They became lazy and complacent. Only now do some of them realize the situation they are in and are attempting to correct this.

Europe's economic problems are caused by its inflexible socialist structures, not laziness. They are still making progress and, luckily for them, they still have much more room for improvement than we do.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
It's surprising to me that the poll settled at 16 a bad thing and 8 a good thing. Surprising that there were that many "good".

What I don't understand though, is how 6 people can say there is no American exceptionalism. How can someone say that the US is not clearly different, even unique, in many ways? Any explanations?

Seems like a language problem, if I had to guess. "American Exceptionalism" has a pretty weird ring to it, it sort of sounds like the Nazi propaganda in Germany. Based on your post I'm positive that's not what you intended, but I wonder if people are simply uncomfortable with the phrase.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: cwjerome
It's surprising to me that the poll settled at 16 a bad thing and 8 a good thing. Surprising that there were that many "good".

What I don't understand though, is how 6 people can say there is no American exceptionalism. How can someone say that the US is not clearly different, even unique, in many ways? Any explanations?

Seems like a language problem, if I had to guess. "American Exceptionalism" has a pretty weird ring to it, it sort of sounds like the Nazi propaganda in Germany. Based on your post I'm positive that's not what you intended, but I wonder if people are simply uncomfortable with the phrase.

True that.

For the uninitiated.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
I think the people who disagree with you, myself included, have a problem with those who think that american power is the most important factor and that we must pour everything into it to continually build it so that we are on top. I do not feel that we must be a superpower to still produce great things for the world. I dont think we need to have some giant group-think nightmare where everyone shares the same positions. And I dont think everyone in America is a conservative as you would like to believe. When it comes to purely economics I can see a little bit of a sense in some of the conservative thought processes but when it comes to social issues i think they are often way off. We are a socialist democracy and despite the fact that you seem to have an axe to grind against socialists, I think that that is a big part of what makes us such a good country. Even though we are extremley weary about how we will meet the needs of the people, hoping to avoid the mistakes of the inefficient outdated policies of the past, we still desperately want to meet those needs.

That's a key point that I suspect... most people who don't think American Exceptionalism is a good thing don't really care if America retains its power (however you define power).

However, one of the key things that makes up American exceptionalism is its patriotism, which consistency rates much higher than all other industrialized nations (besides Japan maybe).

Here's a point I'm trying to make though: modern political conservatism is relatively new, maybe starting with Goldwater/1964, and not really coming into its own until Reagan/1980. But the life span of America's exceptional conservatism goes back to its birth. The US has always had conservative instincts... suspicion of gov power, business enthusiasm, and deep religiousness. Since the beginning, the US has been so comfortable with its innate conservatism that it has had no need for a political movement to articulate conservatism's principles and values... or to harass its enemies.

These elements (and others, like geography) in American society from the very beginning have put the breaks on any substantial drift to the Left. The political movement sprang because it sorta looked like the US might actually veer somewhat... but the reality is there: the US is the only developed country in the world to have never had a left-wing government. And that will remain so, at least for the foreseeable future.