Question 'Ampere'/Next-gen gaming uarch speculation thread

[Ottonomous]

How much is the Samsung 7nm EUV process expected to provide in terms of gains?
How will the RTX components be scaled/developed?
Any major architectural enhancements expected?
Will VRAM be bumped to 16/12/12 for the top three?
Will there be further fragmentation in the lineup? (Keeping turing at cheaper prices, while offering 'beefed up RTX' options at the top?)
Will the top card be capable of >4K60, at least 90?
Would Nvidia ever consider an HBM implementation in the gaming lineup?
Will Nvidia introduce new proprietary technologies again?

Sorry if imprudent/uncalled for, just interested in the forum member's thoughts.

 

[psolord]

NVidia should just release a video of one of their new cards rendering a fully real-time ray traced train barreling down the tracks.

I think that would get people excited and get the point across.

You mean this, but with RT? xD

Download NVIDIA Tech Demos

Download free demos and experience how NVIDIA GeForce technology improves graphics and your games.

www.nvidia.co.uk

 

[Glo.]

AMD's Nvidia Killer GPU May Already Be in America for Validation | Digital Trends

AMD's Nvidia Killer, Big Navi graphics card is reportedly on U.S. shores already undergoing testing and validation. This monster GPU is said to be twice the size of the Navi 10 chip in the RX 5700 XT, and could offer close to twice the performance, if rumors based on its specifications are to be...

www.digitaltrends.com

If anyone else claims I made that up I will link a hundred or so sites calling it that before I ever mentioned the term.

One anonymous tweet says Samsung 8nm and you all treat it as the holy grail, hundreds of references to " nVidia killer" and I must've made it up.... Y'all getting desperate.

Yes, you make it up, because AMD never said about any of their products current or upcoming: "Nvidia Killer".

Secondly, do your research better. Just because Digital Trends posted this article in this manner, does not mean that they have correctly made their research, and that you are correct.

If you will do your job better, research, you will find about what was said: "Nvidia Killer", and who said it first.

 

[Glo.]

That isn't how it ends up working though. If nVidia has a $1500 card up top, and a $1k card second and then their third card is $700- AMD might launch at $650(if that's where they are competitive). If nVidia launches at $1k, $750 and $600 AMD won't be launching at $650.

NVidia does dictate pricing, between launching first and owning the top tiers, they set the market.

To be completely fair, inflated prices from nVidia helps AMD a lot more then just letting them sell more, what if the 2080Ti was $700, 80S $500, 70S $350 and the 60S $249- what would that have done to AMD's margins?

Yeah, just like AMD has not priced RX 5000 series, at exactly competitive prices?

So if Nvidia releases 1500$ GPU, and AMD has better product, AMD won't price it at that same price tag?

KEK.

 

[AtenRa]

That isn't how it ends up working though. If nVidia has a $1500 card up top, and a $1k card second and then their third card is $700- AMD might launch at $650(if that's where they are competitive). If nVidia launches at $1k, $750 and $600 AMD won't be launching at $650.

NVidia does dictate pricing, between launching first and owning the top tiers, they set the market.

To be completely fair, inflated prices from nVidia helps AMD a lot more then just letting them sell more, what if the 2080Ti was $700, 80S $500, 70S $350 and the 60S $249- what would that have done to AMD's margins?

Dictating a price means the competition cannot respond.
IF AMD has a competitive RTX3080 product, they could sell it at any price they would like. Making NVIDIA to respond to that with a price cut or with a new product. Thus making dictating prices not a possibility. We show that with NAVI 10 vs TU106.

What I believe BFG10K wanted to say is that NVIDIA will be able to set/define the top price (example for the RTX3080Ti) and AMD will play along with the lower tiers (RTX3080) without challenging NVIDIA on the top 1-2 products (RTX3080Ti and Titan).

Well, AMD could have a RTX3080Ti competitive product and still not challenge NVIDIA at whatever price they will release.

 

[Glo.]

My prediction, AMD will compete up to RTX3080, that is the reason NV using A102 for RTX3080 this time.

Im expecting something similar to RTX2060 Super vs RX5700XT in price/perf across all the line of GPUs up to RTX3080.
NV will still have the 3080Ti unchallenged again but this time the competition will not stop at the $400 mark.

The lower expectations, the bigger the surprise .

 

[Glo.]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1293839452356272130

Kopite about core clock: It's fake. actually, the core frequency is not really high, maybe 1.7GHz.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Dictating a price means the competition cannot respond.

Not in any way shape or form. You know who dictates how much paper towels cost? Proctor&Gamble. They make Bounty, they dictate the price- *every single competitor* responds to those prices. When the price of Bounty goes up, within a few months all the others will follow suit. If the price goes down within weeks you will see the others drop prices. I used that example because it is likely the most visible and one that most people will know.

I've worked in distribution for decades, I'm not guessing, overwhelming market leaders dictate pricing- that is the correct term.

Glo- I have way, way more backing up "nVidia killer" than you do for 8nm. I also already explicitly demonstrated that that was reported long before I used the term- in other words- there is no way I made it up. Words have meanings.

 

[AtenRa]

Not in any way shape or form. You know who dictates how much paper towels cost? Proctor&Gamble. They make Bounty, they dictate the price- *every single competitor* responds to those prices. When the price of Bounty goes up, within a few months all the others will follow suit. If the price goes down within weeks you will see the others drop prices. I used that example because it is likely the most visible and one that most people will know.

I've worked in distribution for decades, I'm not guessing, overwhelming market leaders dictate pricing- that is the correct term.

Even if dictating meaning this, I will have to remind you all that even without having a top tier product you cannot dictate/define/set the top price if the competition has a very competitive product somewhere in the stuck and they are willing to compete in price/perf.

An example is NVIDIA GTX280 that was released at $649 and was priced cut down to $499 a few weeks later due to AMDs aggressive pricing of the HD4870 which was not a top tier card and was not directly competing against GTX280.

 

[amenx]

I think the top 2 cards are important to Nvidia because this is what creates mindshare. When anyone reads reviews about any GPU, they will always notice the top cards in benchmark charts, and which have been Nvidia for so long. This mindshare then filters down to lower cards even if they arent the best deal vs competition.

 

[jpiniero]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1293839452356272130

Kopite about core clock: It's fake. actually, the core frequency is not really high, maybe 1.7GHz.

Base frequency on the 2080 Ti is only 1350...

 

[Gideon]

I also already explicitly demonstrated that that was reported long before I used the term- in other words- there is no way I made it up.

IMO Nobody claimed that you made the term up. What you did thoug, is assign the to AMD as if anyone in the company communicated Big Navi in any being a "nvidia killer" which is obviously not true.

You could wriggle out you meant "viral marketing", but never assume malice when stupidity will suffice. Most probably the term just came from ovezelaous fanboys or clickbait miedia (which always has ridiculous titles). Still a very far cry from "poor volta" and AMD's terrible marketing of the past (which at least for a couple of years now seems to be histroy).

 

[AtenRa]

I think the top 2 cards are important to Nvidia because this is what creates mindshare. When anyone reads reviews about any GPU, they will always notice the top cards in benchmark charts, and which have been Nvidia for so long. This mindshare then filters down to lower cards even if they arent the best deal vs competition.

Ryzen never was on top of Gaming benchmarks and it has higher sales than Intel in desktop DIY market.

 

[jpiniero]

Ryzen never was on top of Gaming benchmarks and it has higher sales than Intel in desktop DIY market.

Just goes to show that it's important to have proper supply out there. Guess that's one big advantage nVidia has with using Samsung, shouldn't be hard or expensive to get additional capacity should they need it.

 

[AtenRa]

Just goes to show that it's important to have proper supply out there. Guess that's one big advantage nVidia has with using Samsung, shouldn't be hard or expensive to get additional capacity should they need it.

Top tier GPUs like the RTX3080Ti is a low volume product, and having big dies for lower tier GPUs is not helping with manufacturing. Ampere dies are big, we are not in the 500mm2 era for the top tier GPUs anymore.
Using more wafers even if at lower price than the competition still lowers your margins if you need more wafer volume for the same amount of dies.

 

[Dribble]

My prediction, AMD will compete up to RTX3080, that is the reason NV using A102 for RTX3080 this time.

Im expecting something similar to RTX2060 Super vs RX5700XT in price/perf across all the line of GPUs up to RTX3080.
NV will still have the 3080Ti unchallenged again but this time the competition will not stop at the $400 mark.

I can't see AMD really being competitive near the top end. The problem being the reason you own a 3080 or whatever is for ray tracing - that's going to be the "ultra" setting in games that you buy top end cards for. I can't see RNDA2 being competitive with Amphere there - Nvidia will make sure they're faster at straight ray tracing - this is their second gen ray tracing card, they have much more experience with it.

That's assuming AMD can somehow find a way to either compete with DLSS or manage to stop DLSS being used - without that it'll be pretty well impossible to compete across the whole range as it gives such huge performance boosts.

 

[AtenRa]

I can't see AMD really being competitive near the top end. The problem being the reason you own a 3080 or whatever is for ray tracing - that's going to be the "ultra" setting in games that you buy top end cards for. I can't see RNDA2 being competitive with Amphere there - Nvidia will make sure they're faster at straight ray tracing - this is their second gen ray tracing card, they have much more experience with it.

That's assuming AMD can somehow find a way to either compete with DLSS or manage to stop DLSS being used - without that it'll be pretty well impossible to compete across the whole range as it gives such huge performance boosts.

Although RT is the future, games already with RT or games that will be released in 2021 with RT support could be counted in your 10 fingers.

So, no matter how strong NVIDIA will push the RT/DLSS marking in Ampere release, they know that only those two features are not enough against strong raster performance from the competition in 99% of the games out there.

Also to point out, AMD will use DXR for RayTracing (vs RTX) and DirectML (vs DLSS). So this time with RDNA2 AMD will not luck features like before with NAVI 10 release, making it even harder for NVIDIA not to want to compete in Raster performance. So im expecting that RDNA2 vs Ampere will be even tougher for NVIDIA than Navi 10 (RX5700XT) vs TU104 (RTX2060 Super) this time as both will have the same features.

 

[DisEnchantment]

IMO Nobody claimed that you made the term up. What you did thoug, is assign the to AMD as if anyone in the company communicated Big Navi in any being a "nvidia killer" which is obviously not true.

Reeks of made up garbage from a known YouTube rumor monger and/or his "sources". I visited his channel once but I lost lots of brain cells.

 

[BenSkywalker]

All ray tracing games on PC (Nvidia RTX and AMD Radeon) | Digital Trends

Nvidia RTX ray tracing helps the lighting in games look more realistic, but only certain games support the feature. We rounded up all of them.

www.digitaltrends.com

10? WoW, Minecraft and Cyberpunk are all pretty high profile too. It's not remotely close to being the majority of games, but a couple dozen isn't finger counting for any person I've ever met.

AMD will use DXR for RayTracing

NVidia uses DXR for ray tracing under DX, RTX is just marketing for their hardware implementation- Pascal parts can run DXR too.

IMO Nobody claimed that you made the term up.

Two people explicitly stated exactly that, it's not an opinion position

 

[Det0x]

Two people explicitly stated exactly that, it's not an opinion position

Read this post one more time.

You explicitly stated AMD made the "nVidia killer" claim here:

I don't work for AMD, so I'm not sure why you think I made that claim. They did not call it nVidia competitor or nVidia beater, they call it a nVidia killer

Multiple people have been trying to tell you that AMD didn't make the claim, but it seems like you don't want to accept that, why is that ?

Can you please tell/link me where AMD called it anything other then "big NAVI" or "NAVI 2X" ?
No you cant, because they never said anything of the sorts.

 

[sontin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1293839452356272130

Kopite about core clock: It's fake. actually, the core frequency is not really high, maybe 1.7GHz.

So, this guys is tweeting fakes just to correct himself a few days prio the launch. Great source btw.

 

[Stuka87]

I can't see AMD really being competitive near the top end. The problem being the reason you own a 3080 or whatever is for ray tracing - that's going to be the "ultra" setting in games that you buy top end cards for. I can't see RNDA2 being competitive with Amphere there - Nvidia will make sure they're faster at straight ray tracing - this is their second gen ray tracing card, they have much more experience with it.

That's assuming AMD can somehow find a way to either compete with DLSS or manage to stop DLSS being used - without that it'll be pretty well impossible to compete across the whole range as it gives such huge performance boosts.

There is literally no way outside of industrial espionage that nVidia can make sure they are faster anywhere. They can make well educated decisions, but all of these decisions were made two years ago.

Also, why word your DLSS comment that way? "Somehow find a way" is rather ludicrous since DLSS is using DX12 features. nVidia has their software on top of that, but its not like what they are doing is some super secret magic and nobody knows how it works. Although it is the most over complicated up-scaler on earth.

And you need to keep in mind that a lot of people still dislike using DLSS. 2.0 is certainly better, but text and certain types of textures still look horrible, even compared to regular upscaling. Which BTW, regular upscaling has 15-20% better performance than DLSS 2.0. DLSS has a decent amount of overhead.

 

[nurturedhate]

Read this post one more time.

You explicitly stated AMD made the "nVidia killer" claim here:

Multiple people have been trying to tell you that AMD didn't make the claim, but it seems like you don't want to accept that, why is that ?

Can you please tell/link me where AMD called it anything other then "big NAVI" or "NAVI 2X" ?
No you cant, because they never said anything of the sorts.

A possible explanation would be someone's account was hacked and someone else made that post or someone forgot to switch accounts. The "nvidia killer" post does read far different than the rest and they don't seem to remember making it.

 

[maddie]

I can't see AMD really being competitive near the top end. The problem being the reason you own a 3080 or whatever is for ray tracing - that's going to be the "ultra" setting in games that you buy top end cards for. I can't see RNDA2 being competitive with Amphere there - Nvidia will make sure they're faster at straight ray tracing - this is their second gen ray tracing card, they have much more experience with it.

That's assuming AMD can somehow find a way to either compete with DLSS or manage to stop DLSS being used - without that it'll be pretty well impossible to compete across the whole range as it gives such huge performance boosts.

Not saying in any way that AMD will be better, but this argument is lacking. Everything as to design has been fixed a long time ago and I guess few remember the tesselation example where AMD was first but completely surpassed by Nvidia on their 1st attempt.

 

[exquisitechar]

So, this guys is tweeting fakes just to correct himself a few days prio the launch. Great source btw.

Did you miss the "I'm not sure" x3? He makes a distinction between unreliable rumors and when he thinks something is more concrete.

He is a great source as he's gotten multiple Nvidia related specs right (sometimes long before launch), no need for denial.

 

[joesiv]

Can you please tell/link me where AMD called it anything other then "big NAVI" or "NAVI 2X" ?
No you cant, because they never said anything of the sorts.

AMD said 2x, I remembered seeing it somewhere, did a bit of digging, and found an AMD slidedeck from an investor presentation (slide 28):

Investor Relations

For 50 years AMD has driven innovation in high-performance computing, graphics and visualization technologies for gaming, immersive platforms and the datacenter.

ir.amd.com

The full list of presentations are here: https://ir.amd.com/events/event-details/financial-analyst-day-2020

Oh, and lisa has talked about "big navi" several times, that one is easy to find, like in Jan 2020 as she reiterated we'll see big navi in 2020.

I think the "Nvidia Killer" term was a supposed "leak" from an AMD employee to some youtuber, I wouldn't call that one conclusive, but makes a nice narrative!