Amtrak Wreck

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sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
Can anyone confirm the orientation, heading, and location of the crash on this map?

 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Bingo!!! I suspect the engineer fell asleep and missed the slow down marker.

Not likely. I've been to 30th street many times. Coming out of that station there is a lot of slow track switching for the first mile with a few turns before throttle can be opened up. Where the accident occurred was 10 min out.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,463
596
126
Are you seriously this fucking stupid? The train was going over twice the safe speed. It wrecked because of that. This is not another, government "step in and save us from ourselves moment". Serious fucking idiots in this thread and you are one of them. How about we go back to personal accountability and less government airbags. This is not a political issue. Are you going to say BBBBBBBush, next, well are you? Ridiculous!!! I'm suprised some of you graduated from diapers, but I suspect some here are still wearing them.

How do you hold someone personally accountable for unintentionally killing seven (or a hundred) people? They can't pay it back. Punishment doesn't accomplish anything.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
How do you hold someone personally accountable for unintentionally killing seven (or a hundred) people? They can't pay it back. Punishment doesn't accomplish anything.

You also can not just forget that such happened. They have to be prevented from being a threat to others.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
anyone remember this crash in NY?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...in-was-travelling-at-80mph-in-30mph-zone.html

So congress slow walked a mandate to install speed abatement systems by 2015. Investigators have said this system would have prevented the Phila crash.

So what did Republicans vote on today???
http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/House-GOP-panel-proposes-Amtrak-cuts-6260638.php

You know what else would have prevented that wreck? The train engineer doing his job. I guess we better just raise taxes so we can automate every damn thing in the world to prevent injury.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
How do you hold someone personally accountable for unintentionally killing seven (or a hundred) people? They can't pay it back. Punishment doesn't accomplish anything.

Not sure about train engineers, but pilots have specific requirements the must follow regarding rest and for things like alcohol consumption. When you accept a job as a pilot you accept that you are not to drink alcohol less than 12 hours before you fly and if you are required to have 8 hours of uninterrupted rest... you do that. I know there are similar rules regarding rest for truck drivers.

We don't know all the details of the events leading up to the crash. Maybe it was out of the engineers control maybe it was negligence. Jail time is appropriate if it was indeed a case of negligence. Just like the ship captain who is going to jail for taking a cruise ship on a joyride.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Self driving trains, with driver salaries going to Silicon Valley instead, are the answer.
Think about it.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Self driving trains, with driver salaries going to Silicon Valley instead, are the answer.
Think about it.

Wait...

Is your argument that we should let people die, so those rich Silicon Valley guys dont get more money?

Holy shit man.
 

JockoJohnson

Golden Member
May 20, 2009
1,417
60
91
Amtrak not profitable on alot of its lines. Why do we need to keep pumping money into something that is failing?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-a-ton-of-money-each-year-it-doesnt-have-to/


PTC already budgeted -- why wasn't it put in place already? What could possibly be the hold-up?
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/397/792...ed-with-Positive-Train-Control-ATK-12-023.pdf

Play on emotions much? How many of you fucking retards agree with this headline?
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/05...njured-americans-vote-cut-amtraks-budget.html

So far, it appears that the crash was not due to an infrastructure issue due to any 2015 budget. But how many despicable fucking assholes (can't think of a more appropriate term for them) are out there saying it is because Amtrak needs more money in their budget?
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Right, it's always the fault of something or someone else and not the person responsible for the safe operation of the train.

What if they were pressuring operators to complete the route in an unrealistic time and the tracks were in an unsafe state of disrepair?

Hence "It could have been any of us man."
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Amtrak not profitable on alot of its lines. Why do we need to keep pumping money into something that is failing?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-a-ton-of-money-each-year-it-doesnt-have-to/


PTC already budgeted -- why wasn't it put in place already? What could possibly be the hold-up?
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/397/792...ed-with-Positive-Train-Control-ATK-12-023.pdf

Play on emotions much? How many of you fucking retards agree with this headline?
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/05...njured-americans-vote-cut-amtraks-budget.html

So far, it appears that the crash was not due to an infrastructure issue due to any 2015 budget. But how many despicable fucking assholes (can't think of a more appropriate term for them) are out there saying it is because Amtrak needs more money in their budget?

Because the rails in the photo look like crap. I-95 in that area is crap too. I was a passenger looking out the window as we drove on a bridged section over water and I looked down and there was a hole in the deck, I could see the deck below. There was an erosion hole in that deck too. And I could see the water. There was rust everywhere. The hole was actually through a rusted portion of an I beam. The thing was packed to the brim with heavy traffic. Never again.

My sister used to live in Philly and they had to close an onramp she normally used from her house because the concrete supporting it crumbled/collapsed.

So thats why. Cause the people who actually live there know the infrastructure sucks. They need a big budget because of how old and neglected their infrastructure has been for decades. You can't really glean that from the bottom line.
 
Last edited:

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
What if they were pressuring operators to complete the route in an unrealistic time and the tracks were in an unsafe state of disrepair?

Hence "It could have been any of us man."

You actually believe that Union Engineers would not be screaming at the top of their lungs if they were required to complete the route in an unrealistic time.

As for the tracks being in a unsafe state of disrepair, something tells me running at twice the recommended speed would result in the same thing even if the tracks were brand new.
 

JockoJohnson

Golden Member
May 20, 2009
1,417
60
91
Because the rails in the photo look like crap. I-95 in that area is crap too. I was a passenger looking out the window as we drove on a bridged section over water and I looked down and there was a hole in the deck, I could see the deck below. There was an erosion hole in that deck too. And I could see the water. There was rust everywhere. The hole was actually through a rusted portion of an I beam. The thing was packed to the brim with heavy traffic. Never again.

My sister used to live in Philly and they had to close an onramp she normally used from her house because the concrete supporting it crumbled/collapsed.

So thats why. Cause the people who actually live there know the infrastructure sucks. They need a big budget because of how old and neglected their infrastructure has been for decades. You can't really glean that from the bottom line.

I lived in Philly my whole life up until 4 years ago. It was the best decision I ever made to get out of that shithole of a city. The way to fix their infrastructure is to blow the city up and start over.

But so far, this accident had nothing to do with the shitty train tracks. It was a curve that had a 50MPH speed limit. The train was going 107MPH. No amount of good track is going to fix that. Unless you are saying that they should have taken out the curve and made it straight. That track has been like that for decades. They had plenty of opportunity to do something with it if they wanted to.

Morons bitching about Republicans and this year's budget are just that....morons.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
What if they were pressuring operators to complete the route in an unrealistic time and the tracks were in an unsafe state of disrepair?

Hence "It could have been any of us man."

The only unrealistic time issue would have been if the train was late departing the station.

It was scheduled to depart at 9:10; At most, the train was 5-10 minutes behind schedule on a 90 minute run


Because the rails in the photo look like crap. I-95 in that area is crap too. I was a passenger looking out the window as we drove on a bridged section over water and I looked down and there was a hole in the deck, I could see the deck below. There was an erosion hole in that deck too. And I could see the water. There was rust everywhere. The hole was actually through a rusted portion of an I beam. The thing was packed to the brim with heavy traffic. Never again.

My sister used to live in Philly and they had to close an onramp she normally used from her house because the concrete supporting it crumbled/collapsed.

So thats why. Cause the people who actually live there know the infrastructure sucks. They need a big budget because of how old and neglected their infrastructure has been for decades. You can't really glean that from the bottom line.
Tracks were inspect less than a week ago per NTSB.

Road infrastructure which is controlled by PennDOT is different than the tracks maintained by Amtrack.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
You know what else would have prevented that wreck? The train engineer doing his job. I guess we better just raise taxes so we can automate every damn thing in the world to prevent injury.

Awful lot of assuming going on in this thread, including the OP. It looks like the engineer driving the train was a forum member's friend:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2431191

Wouldn't that be something if turns out that he was exposed to carbon monoxide fumes and missed the speed limit change and was barely conscious enough to hit the brakes when he did and can't remember because he lost consciousness due to lack of oxygen as much as anything else (impact trauma).

We don't know what happened yet. There is a very good chance that it is the engineer's fault but it's also very possible that something else is to blame. Wait for details before condemning the engineer, FFS!
 

JockoJohnson

Golden Member
May 20, 2009
1,417
60
91
Awful lot of assuming going on in this thread, including the OP. It looks like the engineer driving the train was a forum member's friend:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2431191

Wouldn't that be something if turns out that he was exposed to carbon monoxide fumes and missed the speed limit change and was barely conscious enough to hit the brakes when he did and can't remember because he lost consciousness due to lack of oxygen as much as anything else (impact trauma).

We don't know what happened yet. There is a very good chance that it is the engineer's fault but it's also very possible that something else is to blame. Wait for details before condemning the engineer, FFS!

Tell that to Mayor Michael Nutter of Philadelphia (blames the engineer) and Former Mayor/Governor Ed Rendell (blames Republicans and calls them SOBs). They might be SOBs for other reasons but now is not the time to pull out that "Jump to Conclusions" mat and hop up and down on it.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
How do you hold someone personally accountable for unintentionally killing seven (or a hundred) people? They can't pay it back. Punishment doesn't accomplish anything.

So, what do you think should happen? If the investigation shows that this guy was doing a Casey Jones we just slap his wrist and say 'Bad engineer! Don't do that again?' If the investigation shows it was the engineer's actions that caused the wreck, he deserves to be punished as his actions, or lack thereof, caused the accident.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
What if they were pressuring operators to complete the route in an unrealistic time and the tracks were in an unsafe state of disrepair?

Hence "It could have been any of us man."

Driving that train at twice the speed limit?? Sorry, no excuse like this is acceptable.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
That's why I said 'systemic failure' in a prior post. A CO leak impairing the engineer would qualify in my opinion and totally exonerate the driver.

Awful lot of assuming going on in this thread, including the OP. It looks like the engineer driving the train was a forum member's friend:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2431191

Wouldn't that be something if turns out that he was exposed to carbon monoxide fumes and missed the speed limit change and was barely conscious enough to hit the brakes when he did and can't remember because he lost consciousness due to lack of oxygen as much as anything else (impact trauma).

We don't know what happened yet. There is a very good chance that it is the engineer's fault but it's also very possible that something else is to blame. Wait for details before condemning the engineer, FFS!
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
That's why I said 'systemic failure' in a prior post. A CO leak impairing the engineer would qualify in my opinion and totally exonerate the driver.

While it might have impaired the engineer; he did hit the emergency brakes way to late; recordings show a 4 mph decrease in speed.

So, in a time span of less than 10-15 minutes he was impacted by a chemical and then it cleared up in the last 30-60 seconds before the crash? :whiste:
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Wouldn't that be something if turns out that he was exposed to carbon monoxide fumes and missed the speed limit change and was barely conscious enough to hit the brakes when he did and can't remember because he lost consciousness due to lack of oxygen as much as anything else (impact trauma).

So how is one exposed to carbon monoxide fumes on an electric train?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amtrak_rolling_stock

Train involved was a Siemens ACS-64 and is power by electricity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_Cities_Sprinter
 
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