An alternate take on the Charlie Hebdo attacks

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Black Octagon

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2012
1,410
2
81
So lets say this so called person on the ground cannot support with facts published or by links what they believe to be happening!

With that said I have been to France in the last 2 years and I have a number of friends in France who say just the opposite of this so called person on the ground!


Yet you still refuse to name a single so-called No-Go zone...and you seem to insist that this "so-called person" (...no comment...) provides you with links. As I asked you already, links to WHAT? This may seem strange to you, but no newspaper in the world is going to publish an exposé entitled "Breaking News: Absolutely nothing remarkable is happening in the French ghettos"

Maybe The Onion...
 

Caravaggio

Senior member
Aug 3, 2013
508
1
0
Did you know that in France and Europe for that matter they have No Go Zones? That are just for Muslims

What, you mean it's getting as polarised as Jerusalem, Ferguson and South Central LA?
Holy f***! That really is separatism, just like apartheid.

Racism stinks, huh?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We stole it" (Palestine)
David Ben Gurion ( first prime minister of Israel.)
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
I love how people think these guys go through all this trouble to carefully form a terror cell and gather intelligence and arms just to lose their heads one day over a frickin cartoon. So they all decide to go shoot up some place and make themselves look really stupid and set back everything they have been trying, probably for years, to accomplish? And not one of them says "hey this is kind of a foolish thing to be doing, no?" They just all snap simultaneously and instantly run to grab their guns and go blasting away. All the while screaming "allah whack bar, allah snack bar."

Somehow, this nonsense is easier to believe than the idea that it was really a group like mossad, who have a known and proven track record of performing acts just like this. It is amazing that the vast majority of people in both europe and the US know so little about the history of covert ops that this thought doesnt even enter their tiny pea sized brains.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
I love how people think these guys go through all this trouble to carefully form a terror cell and gather intelligence and arms just to lose their heads one day over a frickin cartoon. So they all decide to go shoot up some place and make themselves look really stupid and set back everything they have been trying, probably for years, to accomplish? And not one of them says "hey this is kind of a foolish thing to be doing, no?" They just all snap simultaneously and instantly run to grab their guns and go blasting away. All the while screaming "allah whack bar, allah snack bar."

Somehow, this nonsense is easier to believe than the idea that it was really a group like mossad, who have a known and proven track record of performing acts just like this. It is amazing that the vast majority of people in both europe and the US know so little about the history of covert ops that this thought doesnt even enter their tiny pea sized brains.

You must think that someone like Mossad also planned 9/11.

There are brains behind operations and grunts/cannon fodder.
You never see the brains out in front, only the followers.

What you saw in France is no different than what happens all the time through Iraq, Syria, Omen and other places. The difference is just the location; the type of actor and concept is still the same.
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
I love how people think these guys go through all this trouble to carefully form a terror cell and gather intelligence and arms just to lose their heads one day over a frickin cartoon. So they all decide to go shoot up some place and make themselves look really stupid and set back everything they have been trying, probably for years, to accomplish? And not one of them says "hey this is kind of a foolish thing to be doing, no?" They just all snap simultaneously and instantly run to grab their guns and go blasting away. All the while screaming "allah whack bar, allah snack bar."

Somehow, this nonsense is easier to believe than the idea that it was really a group like mossad, who have a known and proven track record of performing acts just like this. It is amazing that the vast majority of people in both europe and the US know so little about the history of covert ops that this thought doesnt even enter their tiny pea sized brains.
Ridiculous.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
I love how people think these guys go through all this trouble to carefully form a terror cell and gather intelligence and arms just to lose their heads one day over a frickin cartoon. So they all decide to go shoot up some place and make themselves look really stupid and set back everything they have been trying, probably for years, to accomplish? And not one of them says "hey this is kind of a foolish thing to be doing, no?" They just all snap simultaneously and instantly run to grab their guns and go blasting away. All the while screaming "allah whack bar, allah snack bar."

Somehow, this nonsense is easier to believe than the idea that it was really a group like mossad, who have a known and proven track record of performing acts just like this. It is amazing that the vast majority of people in both europe and the US know so little about the history of covert ops that this thought doesnt even enter their tiny pea sized brains.

To help this apologist/denier along

Link - Yemen's al-Qaida claims responsibility for Paris attack

CAIRO (AP) — Yemen's al-Qaida branch on Wednesday claimed responsibility for last week's massacre at a Paris satirical newspaper, with one of its top commanders saying the assault was in revenge for the weekly's publications of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, considered an insult in Islam.


The claim came in a video posting by Nasr al-Ansi, a top commander of Al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, which appeared on the group's Twitter account. The video was the group's official claim of the assault on the Charlie Hebdo offices, although a member of AQAP, as the branch is known, last Friday first confirmed to The Associated Press that the branch had carried out the attack.

In the 11-minute video, al-Ansi says the Charlie Hebdo attack, which killed 12 people — including editors, cartoonists and journalists, as well as two police officers — was in "revenge for the prophet."

...
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
Too many Muslim sympathizers.....facts are fact even if you refuse or try to explain away facts or sources.
Can`t disprove the fact -- try to disprove the source.

All I can say there is coming a day......and it won`t be pretty!

Come on now!

Those sources are terrible and saying so doesn't make anyone a Muslim "sympathizer" or mean they don't think that France has a problem with its Muslim population.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
What, you mean it's getting as polarised as Jerusalem, Ferguson and South Central LA?
Holy f***! That really is separatism, just like apartheid.
Well perhaps the French people don`t want to have to learn to speak Arabic! After all it is France!
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,596
7,854
136
I think the entire Western world is going to become Islamophobic. And I think it will be a logical, correct, and rational response.
That is exactly the logical, correct and rational goal of terrorists using terrorism to make people hate non-violent people so that they too are more likely to become violent.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
I think the entire Western world is going to become Islamophobic. And I think it will be a logical, correct, and rational response.

Very well said!! That is exactly the kind of logic, correct and rational that will keep us from learning to speak Arabic in order to deal with our Muslim captors@@!!!
 

Caravaggio

Senior member
Aug 3, 2013
508
1
0
Ok, I'm back. Deep breath...
I am not one to consider a Catholic website a source of objectivism when it comes to Islam .... Hardly balanced reporting...
...The Catholic.org article ...
Oopos, another religious-partisan source.
(Yoda)

Well done, commendably wise not to trust a Catholic source as objective and academic.
But you often provide links to the "Jewish Virtual Library" which has a strong Zionist bias, although it is very well written.

A few days ago you quoted a JVL entry which patronised the late Count Folke Bernadotte for "losing his influence" in Middle East affairs.

You neglected to say that his influence was radically curtailed when he was murdered by Shamir and his Zionist Lehi death squads.

Please don't insult us by feigning some over-arching commitment to 'objectivity'

____________________________________________
"We stole it" (Palestine)
(David Ben Gurion)
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
On the subject of No-Go zones, that is really a sad state of affairs. It is like the no go zones are no longer part of France. If people are attacking your state and refusing to live within the laws set down by your own government, can you really claim that France is even in control? Maybe the USA should refuse to recognize France as a state also.
 

inachu

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,387
2
41
To put what happened there in France in the most simplistic logic a child could understand is this:

If you do not want Poison Ivy then do not touch the poison ivy.

Yes you have a right to touch and it is your freedom to do so but do not cry to me that you touched it. Blame yourself.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
To put what happened there in France in the most simplistic logic a child could understand is this:

If you do not want Poison Ivy then do not touch the poison ivy.

Yes you have a right to touch and it is your freedom to do so but do not cry to me that you touched it. Blame yourself.


You are then trying to blaming the victim. you are justifying the attack :thumbsdown:

The poison ivy did not respond against you when touched.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
To put what happened there in France in the most simplistic logic a child could understand is this:

If you do not want Poison Ivy then do not touch the poison ivy.

Yes you have a right to touch and it is your freedom to do so but do not cry to me that you touched it. Blame yourself.

This is horrendously incorrect. Ivy has no human agency, no choice about whom it harms: human beings do.

If they don't then the conclusion to be draw is NOT don't touch the ivy, it's destroy all the ivy as it is a blight upon the earth.

GET IT?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Well done, commendably wise not to trust a Catholic source as objective and academic.-- well duh....

But you often provide links to the "Jewish Virtual Library" which has a strong Zionist bias, although it is very well written.---again well duh....a site named Jewish virtual Libray is not heavily Zionist?? Well Duh....

A few days ago you quoted a JVL entry which patronised the late Count Folke Bernadotte for "losing his influence" in Middle East affairs.

You neglected to say that his influence was radically curtailed when he was murdered by Shamir and his Zionist Lehi death squads.--- well Duh..if you are murdered I guess that would mean that you no longer had any influence..lol
Please don't insult us by feigning some over-arching commitment to 'objectivity'
Please don`t insult us by claiming you know anything about what we are talking about!! May Allah continue to bless you!!
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
To put what happened there in France in the most simplistic logic a child could understand is this:

If you do not want Poison Ivy then do not touch the poison ivy.

Yes you have a right to touch and it is your freedom to do so but do not cry to me that you touched it. Blame yourself.

Someone says if you post here again, they'll kill you. If you do and they do, it's your fault.
 

unixwizzard

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
205
0
76
Someone says if you post here again, they'll kill you. If you do and they do, it's your fault.


And if you don't post again you just gave the bully precedence to keep bullying others. So by caving to the bully is it not also your fault when others are then bullied by the same bully?

What would be worse? One person standing up to the bully and being silenced, but in that process exposing the bully for what they really are.. or caving to the bully's demands and allowing the bully to intimidate everyone into silence?
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,937
69
91
Regarding the Zones Urbaines Sensibles:
I just checked, out of interest, which those are for Grenoble (where I lived for the past four years) and it's neighboring communities. I found around half a dozen. Two of those I checked out closer, and they were places I went past rather frequently.

Since I had no reason to enter these blocks, I didn't try to, though maybe I once cut across one on my bike. Anyway, these are the usual ghetto 60's/70's immigrants and poor people, living where housing is cheap and run-down. No particular muslim slant that I could point at, but probably a higher than average crime rate. Grenoble had some rioting in early 2010, just before I moved there, and even while I was there I saw the odd burnt-out car in town. Also, the mayor sent everyone a nice letter pointing out how the town had been assigned priority national security status, assuring the support of the local police force by further national police forces. And yet, none of this was religious tension, most of it was due to the high amount of organized crime, and immigrations and social issues.

I assume that in bigger cities, such as Lyon or of course Paris the likelihood of Muslim fanatics organizing at a larger scale is higher, and as such some of the hotspots marked as ZUS in those regions might well be due to religious issues - but they are designated with the goal of remedial action and focused security and enforcement actions. Not with any goal of letting them run themselves, or leaving policing to the locals.

There are places, where police obivously will not head without back-up. But probably no worse than this same situation would be in Detroit.
 

Caravaggio

Senior member
Aug 3, 2013
508
1
0
Please don`t insult us by claiming you know anything about what we are talking about!! May Allah continue to bless you!!

Please don't pretend that you know any serious academic history. Your here to day, gone tomorrow , Zionist sites are just shill guff. May Hashem forgive you for your shameless nonsense.

The first six titles of the list below might be helpful reading to get you started. Most are written by Israeli Jews who have the courage to tell the truth.
Yes, I am asking you to read books by Israeli Jews, writing about Israel. That makes me an anti Semite does it? Durr.
Now get reading you flatulent fool.

Avi Shlaim (2009)“Israel and Palestine.” (Covers the period 1880 to 2008)
Avi Shlaim (2000)“The Iron Wall:Israel and the Arab World”(Traces the roots of Israel’s uncompromising militarism)
Ilan Pappe(2006)“The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.”
Ilan Pappe “The Idea of Israel” (2014) (Is it possible to imagine a post-Zionist Israel?)
Karl Sabbagh “The British in Palestine 1917-1948. (2002)
Victor Kattan “From Coexistence to Conquest:International Law and the Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, 1891-1949”(2009)
Simon Sebag Montefiore “Jerusalem: The Biography”.(2011)(The antidote to those who believe that Jerusalem is ‘naturally and exclusively’ a Jewish city)
John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt “The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy” (2007). (this book explains why Israel receives the greatest part of US foreign aid)
Greg Philo and Mike Berry “Bad News from Israel” (2004)(Good analysis of the Israeli propaganda machine.)
Joan Peters “From Time Immemorial” (1984)(The classic Zionist myth-history of Palestine.)
Benny Morris (1988)“The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949”
(One of the first works of the Israeli ‘New Historians’, much praised in the academic community)
Benny Morris (2008)“1948: The First Arab Israeli War” (His post-conversion, pro-Zionist account of the birth of Israel. Avi Shlaim called this revisionist history the “work of a genuine charlatan.A betrayal of history&#8221
Martin Gilbert (2008) “Israel:A History”.(A reliable and balanced account, some data clashes with Morris, 2008, above.)
Shlomo Avieneri (2008 Hebrew, 2013 in English)“Herzl”. (A well-written biography of the founder of modern Zionism and the drive for a Jewish state.)
Patrick Bishop (2014) “The Reckoning”.(A lively and dramatic account of the life and times of Avraham Stern.Stern, an ultra-Zionist gangster, convinced of the likely defeat of the British in WW2, tried to do a deal in January 1941 with the Nazis and the Italian Fascists to speed-up Jewish immigration into Palestine.See esp. pages 108-124)
Norman Finkelstein “Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestinian Conflict” (1984)
(NF’s complete textual demolition of Peters’ book)
Norman Finkelstein(2005) “Beyond Chutzpah”(On the misuse of anti-semitism and the abuse of history.Critique of Dershowitz, (2003) below)
Shlomo Sand “The Invention of the Jewish People” (2009) (Scholarly, and witty, attack on the notion of ‘genetically continuous Judaism&#8217
Noam Chomsky “Fateful Triangle”.(2000) Good history on the birth of Israel and the growth of Israeli ‘exceptionalism&#8217
Noam Chomsky and Ilan Pappe(2010)“Gaza in Crisis” (Reflections on Israel’s war against the Palestinians)
Niall Ferguson (1999) “The House of Rothschild” (see especially Volume 2, part three, esp. chp. 14.A good history of the impact of the Balfour Declaration.Includes interesting revelations about opposition to the idea of a Jewish National homeland within the Board of Deputies of British Jews.Shows the British Rothschilds were split on this issue.)
Alan Dershowitz “The case for Israel” (2003)Similar in tone to “From Time Immemorial” by Peters.Shares some of the same quotes.(The author is now in the news again).
EyalWeizman “HollowLand” (2007 and 2012) ( Good analysis of Israel’s stratgey of occupation)
Francesca Stavrakopoulou “Land of Our Fathers:The Roles of Ancestor Worship in Biblical Land Claims”(2010) (She demonstrates the absurdity of the notion that ‘descendants of someone with a faith a bit like yours, who once lived in a place thousands of miles away and then left it, two millennia ago, still have a claim to the land they left).Try that in court…

Eran Elhaik (2013)“The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry”in Genome Biology and Evolution.Vol 5, pp61-74.
(this new research shows that the gene mix of Ashkenazi Jews proves the Khazar Hypothesis and refutes the claim of some Jews to a Palestinian/ Rhenish origin.)
_____________________________________________________________________
“Why should the Arabs make peace?If I was an Arab leader I would never make peace with Israel.That is natural: we have taken their country.”
David Ben Gurion (Israel’s first Prime Minister, 1956)

Here in DC, we don't allow calling other posters names . . . even "flatulent fool."

Perknose
Forum Director
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Black Octagon

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2012
1,410
2
81
Regarding the Zones Urbaines Sensibles:
I just checked, out of interest, which those are for Grenoble (where I lived for the past four years) and it's neighboring communities. I found around half a dozen. Two of those I checked out closer, and they were places I went past rather frequently.

Since I had no reason to enter these blocks, I didn't try to, though maybe I once cut across one on my bike. Anyway, these are the usual ghetto 60's/70's immigrants and poor people, living where housing is cheap and run-down. No particular muslim slant that I could point at, but probably a higher than average crime rate. Grenoble had some rioting in early 2010, just before I moved there, and even while I was there I saw the odd burnt-out car in town. Also, the mayor sent everyone a nice letter pointing out how the town had been assigned priority national security status, assuring the support of the local police force by further national police forces. And yet, none of this was religious tension, most of it was due to the high amount of organized crime, and immigrations and social issues.

I assume that in bigger cities, such as Lyon or of course Paris the likelihood of Muslim fanatics organizing at a larger scale is higher, and as such some of the hotspots marked as ZUS in those regions might well be due to religious issues - but they are designated with the goal of remedial action and focused security and enforcement actions. Not with any goal of letting them run themselves, or leaving policing to the locals.

There are places, where police obivously will not head without back-up. But probably no worse than this same situation would be in Detroit.

Thank you for sharing. This is absolutely consistent with the description I was giving of the Zones Urbaines Sensibles. Not that facts are enough with some people...
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
On the subject of No-Go zones, that is really a sad state of affairs. It is like the no go zones are no longer part of France. If people are attacking your state and refusing to live within the laws set down by your own government, can you really claim that France is even in control? Maybe the USA should refuse to recognize France as a state also.
Yeah they don't exist. The fact you wrote this post this late in the thread tells me you need to read more about this topic.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/18/media/fox-apologizes-for-anti-islam-comments/index.html
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Please don't pretend that you know any serious academic history. Your here to day, gone tomorrow , Zionist sites are just shill guff. May Hashem forgive you for your shameless nonsense.

The first six titles of the list below might be helpful reading to get you started. Most are written by Israeli Jews who have the courage to tell the truth.
Yes, I am asking you to read books by Israeli Jews, writing about Israel. That makes me an anti Semite does it? Durr.
Now get reading you flatulent fool.
Here we go again......
For every author that you claim supports your bloviations about Israel there are an equal amount of authors who dispute your bloviations.......we can both do a wall of text with authors and titles.......but as was stated quite a while ago in other posts where you have posted the same diatribe....what`s the sense? Niether one of us are going to change?

You with what you claim to be your facts and me with what I claim to be my facts!

There actually can be no winner........

But that's okay -- Allah still loves your warped way of thinking!!
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
Here we go again......
For every author that you claim supports your bloviations about Israel there are an equal amount of authors who dispute your bloviations.......we can both do a wall of text with authors and titles.......but as was stated quite a while ago in other posts where you have posted the same diatribe....what`s the sense? Niether one of us are going to change?

You with what you claim to be your facts and me with what I claim to be my facts!

There actually can be no winner........

But that's okay -- Allah still loves your warped way of thinking!!

Massively long ...'s and numerous !'s work against the point you are trying to make.

Why not back up what you have to say with links to legitimate, eyes on the ground, news sources along with thoughtful commentary regarding direct descriptions?
 
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