An emotional Clinton vows to fight on ...

[GrGr]

How the heck is Obama change? He brings people like Zbigniew Brzezinski and Richard Clarke to the table. That looks like same old same old to me.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Farang
First, I don't see the massive Republican support for Obama you're talking about.
...

Well, it's all relative. Given how much Republicans seem to hate most Democrats, the way they are talking about Obama is downright supportive.

 

[Lemon law]

I can understand Hillary getting emotional. After waiting all those years and having everything go her way, being ever so careful not to blow it, at her very moment of triumph, this Obama guy comes out of nowhere and eats her lunch.

And she has tried her Hillary is inevitable, Hillary has experience, and Hillary can get something done cards to no avail. And then to add insult to injury, that Edwards fellow won't ally with her to stop Obama but instead figures his best chance is to take her out so he can get in a two man race with Obama. And now instead of first she is third place loser.

Well, its back to the drawing board for Hillary. But as everyone celebrates her death, I for one don't count her out. Now the pressure is off her, she has to wait until Obama wilts, and she has the money to soldier on. Already it looks like Edwards may be the odd man out, and
she has lots of cards left to play when Obama gets swiftboated.

Personally for me, of the three, Hillary is a distant forth, but I just don't think she is out of it yet. Nor can I blame her for suffering some crushing emotions. There are at least a dozen candidates for just one job, and at least 11 will fall short. But as McCain says, campaigns have their ups an downs, its who finishes on an up that counts.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Honestly, I think folks like Obama help demonstrate that our differences aren't really as major as we think they are. Sure, while assholes like Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity and their liberal counterparts are stoking the fire, everyone is ready to rip out the throats of their enemies...but someone who really IS a uniter doesn't seem to have that hard of a time bringing us together. It just requires exercising a little political leadership instead of trying the quickest and dirtiest way to win an election.

I'm surprised to hear some characterize Obama as extremely liberal. Some have even said he is more so to the left than HRC. I don't see any evidence of that.

There are still people capable of choosing candidates based on qualifications which extend beyond the letter which sits behind their name.

I'm a Conservative first, a Republican second. Obama certainly doesn't fit the profile of either, but if he can coalesce a true "working majority" and begin to untangle the gridlock that DC has been submersed in for years now, I will support him. There are always areas of agreement.

 

[senseamp]

Obama is for universal health care, just like Clinton.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt.

Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features

His plan is a copy of Hillary's plan, yet she gets flack for HillaryCare, and the same people who are bashing her are supporting the same plan from Obama.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/...hcareplan/summary.aspx

 

[Finality]

Shes breaking down now before the election process has even started? Nice strong leader there.......

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Finality
Shes breaking down now before the election process has even started? Nice strong leader there.......

Yeah really, I'd never vote for a candidate who cried.
Heck, any lack of composure is real negative to me. Good bye giuliani.

Kennedy may not have been the best president, but he looked presidential. The current generation should try the same thing. (though we have a few nixons in the current crop...)

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Her candidacy going down the tubes may cause a world of pain for the Republicans

I agree, I think she is the Republicans best shot to win. If Obama gets the nomination, I think he will win easily.

luckily for us, more Democrats are starting to realize that as well - meaning we may actually have a semi-decent set of candidates to pick from this time around!

But why are Republicans cheering Obama on? Not only is he "more likely to win" but he is also more liberal than Hillary.

I don't know. You'd have to ask a Republican -- and that ain't me.

But, if I had to guess, it's probably their eternal hatred for all things Clinton; or, perhaps they recognize that Obama is one of the very few politicians in Washington who may have any integrity left in his tanks... I think the desire for a candidate everyone can trust will trump the slight ideological differences every time.

One thing to remember is that, these days especially, there isn't a very drastic difference between the parties' ideals and platforms -- so a candidates' character may be the most important factor.

I'm not a Democrat or a Republican, but that is why -I- support Obama.

Yeah, but you have to admit that supporting someone on "the other team" is not the usual behavior in modern politics. I like Obama, I'm getting more and more convinced he's the guy I'll end up voting for if he is the Democratic candidate for President. But honestly, I'm a little surprised at the conservatives who support him. Because he IS pretty liberal, and while I applaud the ability to cross party lines for a good candidate, he's getting support from conservatives who give the impression that they think all liberals should be shot in the head.

Honestly, I think folks like Obama help demonstrate that our differences aren't really as major as we think they are. Sure, while assholes like Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity and their liberal counterparts are stoking the fire, everyone is ready to rip out the throats of their enemies...but someone who really IS a uniter doesn't seem to have that hard of a time bringing us together. It just requires exercising a little political leadership instead of trying the quickest and dirtiest way to win an election.

I am definitely not a republican or a democrat, but I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative. However, I find Obama to be very likable. I definitely don't agree with him on some issues, but I would be pleased if he won the nomination and the general election considering all the candidates to choose from.

I am still very much a cynic, but Obama looks to be a whole hell of a lot better than Bush so bring it on.

 

[Lemon law]

Gotta love that---I am still very much a cynic, but Obama looks to be a whole hell of a lot better than Bush so bring it on.

Comparing GWB&co to anything is meaningless. Surely there can't be anything worse. Even Ted Bundy looks better.

But then along comes Giuliani to cast some doubt.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Finality
Shes breaking down now before the election process has even started? Nice strong leader there.......

I think some of you guys are making a bit much of it.

it's not like she broke down in tears, sobbing uncontrollably... but 4 months of no sleep and being told your a cold bitch and no one likes you nonstop has got to wear on you.

 

[Lemon law]

Before election 08 is over, everyone will lose their cool.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Finality
Shes breaking down now before the election process has even started? Nice strong leader there.......

she didn't "break down", her eyes moistened and glistened as she talked about how much was at stake and how important the future of her country was to her, she didn't lose focus, she even rattled off a few of her talking points about Obama's deficiencies

objections to her expression of emotion seem grounded in sexism. Criticise her for being "cold" and "calculating", then when she displays some emotion she is seen as weak. it's bizarre to see grown adults embrace this sexist double standard

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Finality
Shes breaking down now before the election process has even started? Nice strong leader there.......

she didn't "break down", her eyes moistened and glistened as she talked about how much was at stake and how important the future of her country was to her, she didn't lose focus, she even rattled off a few of her talking points about Obama's deficiencies

objections to her expression of emotion seem grounded in sexism. Criticise her for being "cold" and "calculating", then when she displays some emotion she is seen as weak. it's bizarre to see grown adults embrace this sexist double standard

welcome back?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Finality
Shes breaking down now before the election process has even started? Nice strong leader there.......

she didn't "break down", her eyes moistened and glistened as she talked about how much was at stake and how important the future of her country was to her, she didn't lose focus, she even rattled off a few of her talking points about Obama's deficiencies

objections to her expression of emotion seem grounded in sexism. Criticise her for being "cold" and "calculating", then when she displays some emotion she is seen as weak. it's bizarre to see grown adults embrace this sexist double standard

welcome back?

I've been lurking more than posting. I'm interested to see what happens tomorrow re: your elections though.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Finality
Shes breaking down now before the election process has even started? Nice strong leader there.......

she didn't "break down", her eyes moistened and glistened as she talked about how much was at stake and how important the future of her country was to her, she didn't lose focus, she even rattled off a few of her talking points about Obama's deficiencies

objections to her expression of emotion seem grounded in sexism. Criticise her for being "cold" and "calculating", then when she displays some emotion she is seen as weak. it's bizarre to see grown adults embrace this sexist double standard

Except for an ignorant few, I don't believe that this has anything to do with sexism. Just look at what happened to Howard Dean 4 years ago after his "eeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" episode. Was that sexism as well?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Finality
Shes breaking down now before the election process has even started? Nice strong leader there.......

she didn't "break down", her eyes moistened and glistened as she talked about how much was at stake and how important the future of her country was to her, she didn't lose focus, she even rattled off a few of her talking points about Obama's deficiencies

objections to her expression of emotion seem grounded in sexism. Criticise her for being "cold" and "calculating", then when she displays some emotion she is seen as weak. it's bizarre to see grown adults embrace this sexist double standard

welcome back?

I've been lurking more than posting. I'm interested to see what happens tomorrow re: your elections though.

I think Obama's going to win and I think he's going to win by a sizable margin.

I think the democrats are also highly overestimating his electability (see also: John Kerry 4 years ago)... if the republicans nominate someone other than Huckabee, I think they're going to be on him hard and fast about his complete and total lack of anything resembling foreign policy experience (and if it's Huckabee, expect the exact same pounding about his lack of executive experience)

 

[trenchfoot]

i don't know why it is, but every time i see hillary working the crowds i picture martha stewart smiling and nodding in approval in the immediate background with gloria steinem next to her making small circles with a tight-fisted hand down at her side just itching to sucker punch HRC at the first opportunity.

 

[spittledip]

Most people, when they view the clip of HRC crying, decided if she was honestly crying before even watching the clip. We are all prejudiced in one way or the other when thinking of her. When watching the clip, i tried to push aside my prejudices (I do not like her) and analyze what she was saying and the message she was trying to give.
What i came up with was this:

she seemed very silly and naive and egocentric. to think that she is the only person who can make a positive change as president of the US is foolish at best. Does she really think so poorly of the the other candidates? Does she really think so highly of herself? She said, "I have so many opportunities for this country. I just don't want to see us fall backwards." The suggestion is that if she is not elected, the country will probably move backwards. Or, if she was being completely honest in that remark, she was expressing fear that without her the country might move backwards (as opposed to "probably"). Either way you take it, it is a statement from either a very deluded mind or a manipulative one.

Also, combining the emotional presentation with the political speak ("Some of us are right some of us are wrong" -i.e. I am right and they are wrong) is out of place and inconsistent. Again, it suggests that she is either manipulating or deluded. To even think that one person has all the answers and will solve all the complex problems this country faces is absurd. For one to think that they are that one person is even worse. It is one thing to say it on the campaign trail as a part of the normal half-truths, it is another to say it in a state of emotion that suggests deep belief. If she had been teary about some poor kids not getting medical treatment, it would be different, but she was getting teary about the country possibly being deprived of her magnificient leadership and the probable danger that would engulf us. Again, either highly deluded or just another manipulation.

I have no problem with the display of emotion. i do have a problem with an unstable mind or another liar/ manipulator in office. Even if you take this display at face value, the words she speaks are scary.

My belief? I think that her campaign manager and advisers told her that she needed to get some type of human appeal going on and attempt to appear real and genuine. No one could be so foolish as to actually believe that they and only they have the power and brains to save the nation. Unless they are sick in the head. It's called personality disorder.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Her candidacy going down the tubes may cause a world of pain for the Republicans

I agree, I think she is the Republicans best shot to win. If Obama gets the nomination, I think he will win easily.

luckily for us, more Democrats are starting to realize that as well - meaning we may actually have a semi-decent set of candidates to pick from this time around!

:thumbsup:

Although I don't really consider Romney, Guiliani, or McCain decent candidates. So at least we'll have one decent candidate in Obama (and RP depending on how long he can hang around, just my opinion of course).

I disagree on the McCain part, but am with you and palehorse all the way otherwise. This country needs a bold leader with real ideas that doesn't calculate every little thing down to it's political essence. And that sure as hell isn't Hillary Clinton.

 

[IGBT]

..next she'll be dredging out "the children" for an emotional arm twist.

 

[Jeff7]

<Nelson>
Ha-ha! Humans have emotions and sometimes express them! Ha-ha!
</Nelson>

 

[StageLeft]

Shit GW Bush spends the majority of his presidency on vacation, yet the people just trying to get his job are working day and night.

Bush is a crap president, but don't think he's sun tanning when he's "on vacation". He has constant communication with others and is always, as president, at work.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: spittledip
Most people, when they view the clip of HRC crying, decided if she was honestly crying before even watching the clip. We are all prejudiced in one way or the other when thinking of her. When watching the clip, i tried to push aside my prejudices (I do not like her) and analyze what she was saying and the message she was trying to give.
What i came up with was this:

she seemed very silly and naive and egocentric. to think that she is the only person who can make a positive change as president of the US is foolish at best. Does she really think so poorly of the the other candidates? Does she really think so highly of herself? She said, "I have so many opportunities for this country. I just don't want to see us fall backwards." The suggestion is that if she is not elected, the country will probably move backwards. Or, if she was being completely honest in that remark, she was expressing fear that without her the country might move backwards (as opposed to "probably"). Either way you take it, it is a statement from either a very deluded mind or a manipulative one.

Also, combining the emotional presentation with the political speak ("Some of us are right some of us are wrong" -i.e. I am right and they are wrong) is out of place and inconsistent. Again, it suggests that she is either manipulating or deluded. To even think that one person has all the answers and will solve all the complex problems this country faces is absurd. For one to think that they are that one person is even worse. It is one thing to say it on the campaign trail as a part of the normal half-truths, it is another to say it in a state of emotion that suggests deep belief. If she had been teary about some poor kids not getting medical treatment, it would be different, but she was getting teary about the country possibly being deprived of her magnificient leadership and the probable danger that would engulf us. Again, either highly deluded or just another manipulation.

I have no problem with the display of emotion. i do have a problem with an unstable mind or another liar/ manipulator in office. Even if you take this display at face value, the words she speaks are scary.

My belief? I think that her campaign manager and advisers told her that she needed to get some type of human appeal going on and attempt to appear real and genuine. No one could be so foolish as to actually believe that they and only they have the power and brains to save the nation. Unless they are sick in the head. It's called personality disorder.

huh....so every president candidate out there got some personality disorder? If they don't think they are the one to lead, what the heck do they run for? man, there will be people bashing Hillary for not showing human emotion, and there will be people bashing Hillary when she show human emotion. Either way, she cannot win. I think that's the main problem with her, she is just not as charismatic as Obama. And that's too bad too, i actually think she is a sharp person, with a great network of people that had made America great once, but I guess people just cannot see past his husband's BJ, the hate of Clinton name, and the fact that Hillary is a women. People get pumped up by inspirational speeches, great pop rally, but eventually we need to have a president who knows or knows people who can run the nation.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Finality
Shes breaking down now before the election process has even started? Nice strong leader there.......

she didn't "break down", her eyes moistened and glistened as she talked about how much was at stake and how important the future of her country was to her, she didn't lose focus, she even rattled off a few of her talking points about Obama's deficiencies

objections to her expression of emotion seem grounded in sexism. Criticise her for being "cold" and "calculating", then when she displays some emotion she is seen as weak. it's bizarre to see grown adults embrace this sexist double standard

Except for an ignorant few, I don't believe that this has anything to do with sexism. Just look at what happened to Howard Dean 4 years ago after his "eeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" episode. Was that sexism as well?

That was media manipulation and voter idiocy. I'd have liked a President Dean a lot more than what we got.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: rchiu


huh....so every president candidate out there got some personality disorder? If they don't think they are the one to lead, what the heck do they run for? man, there will be people bashing Hillary for not showing human emotion, and there will be people bashing Hillary when she show human emotion. Either way, she cannot win. I think that's the main problem with her, she is just not as charismatic as Obama. And that's too bad too, i actually think she is a sharp person, with a great network of people that had made America great once, but I guess people just cannot see past his husband's BJ, the hate of Clinton name, and the fact that Hillary is a women. People get pumped up by inspirational speeches, great pop rally, but eventually we need to have a president who knows or knows people who can run the nation.

I assumed (and correctly) that someone would not properly read my post as people on this forum generally are slow to read and quick to post.

There is a big difference between believing you have the ability to run the country and believing that you are the only one who can run the country. You would have seen this had you read the post properly.

I also stated that i believe that this was just a publicity maneuver and not how she really thinks.. again if you had read the post properly you would have understood that.